Braking comparison - Supercars

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daan

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There seems to be an opinion that some high powered N-cars in GTS have been fitted with dodgy brakes made out of cheese and McVities digestives, so I thought I'd do a "scientific" test to see if that was the case or if the cars were just arriving at the braking zone faster than was thought.

The test.

I took a series of cars to Fuji time trial (at 8am), accelerated up to the start line, and slammed on the brakes to see where they stopped. The grid hatchings were after this point and all cars stopped within reach of the 11th/12th placed markings. All very straight-forward.

The setup.

All cars were:-
  • on Sports Hard tyres
  • at 100% weight (some had more power in order to reach the braking point at the required speed)
  • set at 0 brake balance
  • ABS default

All cars crossed the braking point, hitting the rev limiter (in 4th or 5th) at 153mph. The exception to this was the Viper whose transmission wouldn't play properly and so was doing 150mph when I braked. I did not change down to utilise engine braking with any of the cars. When I crossed the line, the only thing I was doing was braking.

I did 3 runs in each car in order to even out the exact point of braking.

The cars were:-
  • Aston Martin One-77
  • Aston Martin Vulcan
  • Bugatti Veyron
  • Dodge Viper
  • Ferrari Enzo
  • Ferrari La Ferrari
  • Ford GT '06
  • Lamborghini Veneno
  • McLaren 650S
  • Nissan GT-R
  • Porsche 911 GT3

The results

As the pictures were taken from a moveable point, I always made sure that the 11th place grid markings are visible as the yardstick.

In no particular order...

650S
650s.jpg


911 GT3
911gt3.jpg


Enzo
enzo.jpg


GT
gt06.jpg


GTR
gtr.jpg


La Ferrari
laferrari.jpg


One-77
one77.jpg


Veneno
veneno.jpg


Veyron
veyron.jpg


Viper
viper.jpg


Vulcan
vulcan.jpg



Summary

As you can see, all cars stopped in roughly the same position. Unsurprisingly, the One-77 appears to have the worst brakes, and the single best stopping performance belonged to the Veneno which stopped on the 13-placed grid markings on one occasion.

I've seen posts here with people complaining abut the brakes on the Veneno, Vulcan and Enzo. The Enzo complaints seem to be warranted, but the other 2 definitely aren't.
 
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People complain about the vulcan brakes probably because a car like that should have same downforce like gr.3 car but it doesnt have. So it brakes like regular super car instead of a racing machine.
 
A lot of the time people don't realise how fast they are going in the Veneno and Vulcan and so when they brake it seems like the car isn't braking well.

This. Also most supercars actually have more power than racecars but less downforce. You arrive at corners at higher speeds, but have less grip overall to slow down. If you don't adjust your braking point then you will never stop in time and it seems they have "worse" brakes.
 
Now I wonder how many of the complainers will see this thread and comment now you've presented facts :gtpflag:

Thanks for taking time out to test this by the way.
 
This. Also most supercars actually have more power than racecars but less downforce. You arrive at corners at higher speeds, but have less grip overall to slow down. If you don't adjust your braking point then you will never stop in time and it seems they have "worse" brakes.

This to a degree but i'd also add that due to the higher downforce and slick tyres the race cars are exiting corners quicker and braking less and carrying more speed into and through corners as well.
 
This could be helpfull in the brand challenges like Ferrari and Lamborghini, because good breaks will get you the win.
 
I tried with the McLaren F1 last night, and it stopped before the 13 placed grid slot, so it has magic brakes. I might do it again and get some pictures but it'll just be a dot in the distance!
 
Using the telemetry feature in GT6 I measured the distance from the start line to grid position 11 and got it to 224.1±1 meters. Braking from 153 mph (68.4 m/s) to 0 in that distance is equivalent to an acceleration of -1.06 G, which would roughly be the result of the One-77, provided that the road markings are the same between the two versions of the track.

By comparison, a typical value for a modern road car with ABS braking hard on dry tarmac is -8.5 m/s^2, or -0.87 G.
 
I tried with the McLaren F1 last night, and it stopped before the 13 placed grid slot, so it has magic brakes. I might do it again and get some pictures but it'll just be a dot in the distance!

The McLaren F1 has tremendous amounts of downforce (200 F/450 R iirc), which surprised the heck out of me. It definitely helps with stopping power.
 
I tried with the McLaren F1 last night, and it stopped before the 13 placed grid slot, so it has magic brakes. I might do it again and get some pictures but it'll just be a dot in the distance!

This.

I drive with F1 a lot. And after testing other supercars, it indeed seems like they have weak brakes and PD messed up the balance.

What confused me tho is AM Vulcan. The car that was built without any limitations considered (like Zonda R/FXX) brakes like a road-spec supercars, despite seemingly having serious downforce advantage :odd:

Nice test btw 👍
 
This.

I drive with F1 a lot. And after testing other supercars, it indeed seems like they have weak brakes and PD messed up the balance.

What confused me tho is AM Vulcan. The car that was built without any limitations considered (like Zonda R/FXX) brakes like a road-spec supercars, despite seemingly having serious downforce advantage :odd:

Nice test btw 👍

Yeah PD completely messed up the downforce in the Vulcan. In real life it can brake at over 2G deceleration
 
I'm surprised that there isn't a huge discrepancy between each car's brakes. I thought there would've been a larger deviation. Then again the La Ferrari and the Vulcan should theoretically have far better brakes than a GT-R or a Viper.
 
This brake test is using the lastest patch 1.28, it should of been carried out in the much older builds of GTS, when the brakes were indeed terrible.

The latest patch as of this response is the 1.28 with the new Fuji track being used in this test and this patch has no issues with braking feel in my playing of GTS. Not like the past builds I cannot keep track because I've stopped playing in between the icy tires and long braking zone patches that were out there.

Its nice work that you carried out the testing regardless, but the brakes were indeed terrible in past builds.
 
How on Earth did the Veyron stop better than nearly all of them? INCLUDING THE FREAKING VULCAN
Because thx to pd vulcan only has 0 down force on its front and 200 downforce on its back. In reality vulcan should have downforce like a gr.3 car.
 
Any track oriented super car will have downforce and brakes to match power level. The Vulcan is not street legal and doesn’t conform to fia regulations. The real car pulls over 2G in braking. I’m GTS it’s like driving a drag car.. way to much power for the downforce and brakes.
A lot of the time people don't realise how fast they are going in the Veneno and Vulcan and so when they brake it seems like the car isn't braking well.
 
Yeah PD completely messed up the downforce in the Vulcan. In real life it can brake at over 2G deceleration
Any track oriented super car will have downforce and brakes to match power level. The Vulcan is not street legal and doesn’t conform to fia regulations. The real car pulls over 2G in braking. I’m GTS it’s like driving a drag car.. way to much power for the downforce and brakes.
I believe that @daan said that all of these tests were done with Sports Hard tires.

I’m unsure what kind of tires the Vulcan ships with in real life, but I’m sure it’s something grippier than the equivalent Sports Hard, more likely Sports Soft or Racing Hard.

As such, I wouldn’t try to draw any conclusions from this test and compare them to the G Force of the real car under braking.

We also have to consider the fact that PD, as many say, may have underestimated the downforce for this car.

This is important, because in general terms (and I am definitely simplifying here) an increase in downforce equals an increase in drag.

This would have two effects if the downforce for this car has been underestimated:
1: The lack of downforce will mean less grip in the tires, and thus less of a maximum stopping force, especially at higher speeds.
2. The lack of downforce would mean a lack of drag, which means that there is less air friction slowing the car down from these high speeds as well. (Part of why many Hypercars and Supercars utilize air brakes, which would seem to make sense of why both the Veyron and McLaren F1 did considerably well for this test, when considering the mass of each vehicle.)

Combine all these factors together, and I would say that, as proven in the experiment, the brakes are likely not the culprit at all.

As far as I can tell, GTSport doesn’t really simulate brake fade or temperatures, so as long as the brakes have the power to lock the wheels of the car, then they are not the limiting factor.

Much of this physics stuff is far more complex than I can really explain, especially through text on a forum. I’m sure somebody on here can clarify or fix any mistakes in my logic.

As a final word, I would say to not underestimate just how much downforce true racecars make, even compared to the Vulcan. At the end of the day, the Vulcan is not a true race car for true racing drivers. It is built for rich people who likely don’t understand how to drive a car with downforce at the limit properly. I see it as a track oriented hypercar much more than a true racecar built without rules in mind.

I could be very wrong, and based on numbers alone, its clear that this car still has a lot of grip and downforce in real life. But I wouldn’t put it’s maximum stopping force too far beyond what these modern hypercars with their crazy active aero can achieve.
 
Don't forget one thing guys, the most important thing for braking distance is actually the tyres. Once you exceed the tyre's grip level, only drag will help slow you down more. Higher weight will also require more energy to slow down the wheels.
In real life, nowadays, a brand new city hatch has a similar braking distance than a Porsche at legal speeds.
 
F1 cars brake at 5G because of downforce more than tyres. Vulcan brakes at 2G because of downforce not tyres.

But FWIW, Vulcan runs either Michelin super sports, or slicks.
 
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