Braking in GT5

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Zuel

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We’ve seen with each addition of Gran Turismo the braking has improved. With the exception of GT5P which has a funny braking aspect. Pending on car and driving style it’s hard to get the braking just right. I’m looking forward to see how the team has improved the braking this time.
 
When I played the demo at Best Buy earlier today, it felt like the braking was a lot more improved. Maybe the ABS was off, but it felt like even attempting to turn while hard on the brakes made their effectiveness drop insanely.
 
I don't see any problem with GT5P's braking? Except now with the ABS off option some people find it hard to threshold brake.

Can you give us examples how the braking has improved in previous GT's?
 
Better weight transfer effects I think that's what he is getting at. The back end will get squirrely if you just slam on the brakes and not keep it point straight ahead, especially in MR cars.

Tyres have a grip envelope, turning and loading them up will mean less grip for braking and viced versa
 
When I played the demo at Best Buy earlier today, it felt like the braking was a lot more improved. Maybe the ABS was off, but it felt like even attempting to turn while hard on the brakes made their effectiveness drop insanely.
In simple terms, a car stopping is a combination of the brakes and the tryes interacting with the surface. The effectiveness of the brakes themselves are not affected one bit by turning. They still stop the wheels from spinning whether they are pointing straight or at an angle. However, depending on the tyres, turning while you are braking will result in the overall stopping distance and/or ability to turn being compromised.
 
To be constructive, looking at videos of the latest build I get the sense that there's a lot more judder when braking hard...as if the front tyres are loosing grip and then getting grip many times a second.

To me it's looks good but to others...who knows!
 
Yeah, braking is something that takes practice. You really need to pay attention to your brake point markers.

iibc, someone said that one of the fancypants wheels/pedals (Fanatec?) actually have FFB in the brake pedal to let the pilot know when near the lockup point? If true, I guess the game would also have to be coded for this feature.
 
Braking in GT5:P is a joke, unless you turn ABS off. The "ABS" in that game is a complex 4-channel system, that is "analogue", rather than digital (i.e. on / off), such that the wheels never lock up ever, which doesn't happen in real life. This means that the ABS is also a form of stability control, with a constantly variable, adaptive brake bias (Front / Rear and Left / Right).

Turn ABS off, though, and it gets much more fun instantly. The proper brake bias is maintained in the braking zones, and it makes for a much more tweakable line into the corner, though in general I have to brake a lot earlier as a result. It's more fun, in my opinion, especially when you nail that four-wheel-drift across the apex :dopey: Cars like the S1 Elise just come alive. I have a load cell on my G25's brake pedal, which helps with braking consistency, though the base sensitivity could obviously use some work, just as with the clutch.

"Heel and Toe" is not that necessary in Prologue, I've noticed - I go back to GPL and I find that I've been allowed to get very sloppy (right foot braking with a 1-way diff is "fun"), however Rated-M3 noted that downshifts in the braking zones cause a mild rotation of the rear now, which is promising.
 
@Griffith: I guess that means that we need a more realistic, maybe optional (in addition to the "perfect GT5 version"), implementation (actually there are several, as it evolved over the past few decades) of ABS for cars that have it.
 
Turn ABS off, though, and it gets much more fun instantly. The proper brake bias is maintained in the braking zones, and it makes for a much more tweakable line into the corner, though in general I have to brake a lot earlier as a result.

Big time, I remember coming off of Prologue and playing TT Demo, huge time difference in braking\braking points, especilly with the Tuned 370z the brakes seemed alot stronger than the Stock.

GT4 had no ABS and it was pretty easy to lock the wheels, so it actually forced you to learn, especially on the wet Tsukuba.

But it's rewarded when you develop the sense of smoothness needed to be able to brake deep into the turn.

Driving aids are junk for the most part, with the exception of the rarely used TCS-1 for REALLY hard to drive cars.
 
Well to my knowledge there was no Setting or Part that allowed for ABS control, and most of the cars wheels will lock or at least skid if you brake full on, unless you had the brake controller set on minimum, correct me if im wrong here by all means, but driving aids were only TCS and ASM, unless there was some universal ghost ABS in there.
 
1+ Agreed 👍

Stupid Thread :dopey:

-1

Don't post if you don't like!


On Topic... braking is where the biggest difference lies between controller and wheel IMO... In prologue I normally race with 1 click of ABS on, otherwise I find myself either braking too early and too soft (and then getting slammed from the cars behind), or too hard and disappearing off in the gravel trap in a straight line, so I kind of rely on ABS in the game, wierdly in real life I hate it!
 
GTP braking is much improved compared to GT4. If a you had a machine that could sort of mimic brake feed back just like in real life, that would instantly insane. In the GTP, you can brake instantly with no brake feed back on the brake pedal. I have the Logitech G25...really wish I could get the G27, but the G25 is more then fun. Although this is just a game, I really liked how each car has a different 'braking point'. I usually turn off ABS, the car feels much more free....as I did to my car in real life. Not fun doing it but definitely lighter.
 
Some cars don't like braking in the turn in zone in Prologue - Nissan GT-R. It always oversteers or loses control
 
We’ve seen with each addition of Gran Turismo the braking has improved. With the exception of GT5P which has a funny braking aspect. Pending on car and driving style it’s hard to get the braking just right. I’m looking forward to see how the team has improved the braking this time.

This should be in the Physics thread.. do we even have one?
 
Meh, someone will flame me and pull out 2008 thread from "lets talk Physics"
 
I must say the braking has really improved from the last version of GT. I played the demo at the Best Buy in Manassas Va. and had a hard time at first. I was really shocked how the brakes reacted. I took the R35 Race Car out on the Rome track, heading into the first turn over a 120, late brake the front end washed out then the rear came around. Started over and got a better line coming in but the car still got very twitchy under hard braking. I tried trail braking as well and the car stayed more stable. From what I found and see the braking has come along way. I can’t wait until the full version a GT5 comes out. I’m going to have so much flipping fun.
 
On N tyres it was actually possible to lock your brakes in GT4. It wasn't that realistic, but it certainly had an effect of braking distance. Using N1 tyres in that game is what taught me to modulate the brakes as much as the throttle.

I've also noticed tyre smoke in GT3 when you go hard on the brakes (I've been playing it this past couple of days). Though it didn't appear to affect braking distances too much.

I haven't tried turning the ABS off in Prologue. Something which I regret, but I will probably turn off when I get GT5. I doubt i'll be on Prologue between now and GT5 so I don'y think i'll be able to try. One thing I did notice is how the braking distance takes a big hit if you begin turning. In GT4 you could brake well into the apex, so there was no gap between brake into and throttle out of the corner. In GT5P this isn't easy, or even possible without braking early or slowing the car down too much I don't think.

The Brakes in the TT demo seemed okay, but again i don't think I turned ABS off, so I couldn't really tell.

The word is rev-matching when downshifting is important in the game now, otherwise your car will become unstable in the braking zones. I think that is very promising.

I remember playing rFactor, with a DS3. The biggest difference between it and GT5P was the braking, which was evident because I couldn't keep the car under control when braking. Hopefully GT5 will be closer to reality in this respect.

A little test, if I get the game and:
  • Use Professional Physics
  • Turn ABS off
  • Use N1 tyres
  • Using my DS3
  • Using a fast, mid-engined, rear wheel drive car
  • Manage to stay on the track for the first corner

Then PD will have failed. :lol:
 
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In my opinion the N1 tires from GT 4 to Prologue are off way off. I’m always locking up the N1 tires in Prologue if I get on the brakes to hard with my bias set above 5. So pending on the car and track I have the ABS on. Down SHIFTING/REV matching while braking is a must and for some peoples it hard to get. Once I was to master it my lap time improved two to three seconds, and it’s all been with out using any of the G series wheels. I had to learn on a real car to master SHIFTING/REV on a three pedal system. No that was hard to learn. Trying to get comfortable with my feet placement was a toughing matter.

I’ve also tried the GT5 Demo and I found the braking with the ABS of is close to spot on. I really enjoyed going in deep in the braking zone. Though it got harder to turn while braking the slower I got. Now on the dirt that was another matter. It’s going to take me a few days to get that down once GT5 is released.
 
When in a corner and at the limits of adhesion; brakes/throttle turn the car while the steering angle slows it down.

In the GT5 demo [the downloaded one], I felt it was 100x better than GTP when using a wheel. Much easier to find that sweet spot between braking & locking up [or using the ABS in the demo's case].

The physics really reward smooth inputs and you can 'feel' the chassis take a set before the apex. I really dug that.

That caveat I found, and I don't know if this is the same for most people, was that the precision needed for GT5 really helps those with a wheel. I tried the demo w/a controller and it was a horror show. Plug in the DFGT, and it was as smooth as can be. While I'm still a bit faster w/the wheel in Prologue, the disparity between the wheel & controller in the GT5 demo was actually quite shocking.

I really think this is due to the new physics and realism of what Polyphony has done with their new baby. It's not arcade-y all nor does it have steering/braking buffers like Forza...none that I could tell anyway.

If you're thinking of getting a wheel or upgrading your current one, do it. Braking and fine adjustments while turning feel awesome, even with a DFGT.
 
?? Now are you speaking of the GT5 TT Demo with the 370Zed?
 
?? Now are you speaking of the GT5 TT Demo with the 370Zed?

Yes. I compared the demo with Prologue using both the DFGT wheel and controller. The TT demo w/the wheel felt exponentially better than Prologue w/the wheel.

Sorry for any confusion.
 
Yes. I compared the demo with Prologue using both the DFGT wheel and controller. The TT demo w/the wheel felt exponentially better than Prologue w/the wheel.

Sorry for any confusion.

Yes very true, I had to turn down the strength of the Force Feed Back on my wheel which I have to max for Prologue. The control in now a lot better and precise at a number of speeds which I really enjoyed.
 
It's really interesting reading some of your thoughts and explanations about the car handling in this thread (and random posts in others). I consider myself to be a decent driver in the game, but I don't yet drive in real life so clearly there's lots of real world experience I'm missing out on that some of you bring with you to the game.

I'm just wondering if there's a dedicated thread here discussing driving tips, from basic things to the more complex (though definitely the more complex stuff is what I'm interested in). I want to be better at the game and more importantly just understand more of the concepts involved and how they work to make you better/faster.

With a driving force GT today I've posted a time in the 97th place on Eiger Reverse in the GT Concept Evo X Tuned (a flawlessly handling car). Professional physics, with ABS off, no traction control, ASM on and the wheel set to simulation and feedback level 7. I'm about 1.2 seconds off the top time (if I remember correctly) and I just know I can inch higher up the rankings if I simply understand what's happening more with the car.

In GT5 I'm looking forward to the most just time trialling, trying to get the fastest times I possibly can, so a thread discussing driving tips and know how would be really helpful. Even if there's an older one I think a new one needs to be made specifically for GT5 so people can share their knowledge, especially with a whole new handling engine being made for this game taking it closer and closer to full on sim territory.

Sorry, long post, but any thoughts guys (I can't yet post a thread or I'd just have done so!)???
 
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