British Pronunciation of words ending in "r"

[Danoff]

Since Famine was stumped in an earlier thread, I thought it might be fun to see if anyone else can weigh in on the bizarre British custom of adding r's where they shouldn't be and removing r's when they shouldn't be.

I first noticed this from watching Patrick Stewart on Star Trek.

"Comanda Dater and I will lead the team."

There it is right there. "Comanda" is mispronounced, and then right after, we see the missing "r" has gotten transposed to the end of his name.

What's the deal?

 

[Dave A]

I think the way thoes words are linked has more to do with Data soundling like he's saying Dater, if you say Data on it's own (and this applies to Patrick Stewart in Star Track as well) it's pronounced "data", when you put "and" after it. If you say say "data and I" it sounds more like your adding an r as you go from ending the word data and starting the word and. At least it does when I say it like that anyway.

 

[Keef]

I've got an idea regarding the language.

English is from England. Lots of the pioneers were from England. They brought their language, English, from England. English people still speak English. English people are stubborn.

Therefore, I believe the English people speak English pretty much the same way they did way back when. That leads me to believe that English people speak English the way English people should. And that means we Americans, in fact, are the ones doing it wrong.

Maybe, Danoff, we're the ones who put the "r" sound in the wrong spot. I mean, we all write it the same. So why do we pronounce it differently? I think somebody decided back in the day that they didn't want to be English anymore...

 

[Kylehnat]

The Brits stole that "r" from the good people of Boston.

 

[Loon]

I know for sure that people here in Maine that have a strong accent talk like that. The history teacher I had last year called China, Chiner. Then he would call a girl in the class who's name was jessica, jessiker.

I think it's just people's accents.

 

[Duke]

Maybe, Danoff, we're the ones who put the "r" sound in the wrong spot.

Then why not SPELL it that way?

And, for what it's worth, everybody from New England adds those extra Rs, as well.

 

[crimson_menace]

Like in Oasis' "Champagne Supernova" ....a champagne supernover in the sky....

It's like vowels following vowels...the unwritten properness of speaking of sorts.

 

[YSSMAN]

Hmmm, I guess I've never really noticed any of this before.

@Keef: Don't tell the Brits that we're the ones doing it wrong! We changed the rules, so we're automatically right!

 

[ceiling_fan]

I think it was Smallhorses who said we are two different countries linked by a common language.

And, for what it's worth, everybody from New England adds those extra Rs, as well.

You bastid.

 

[Smallhorses]

The Brits stole that "r" from the good people of Boston.

Nope, we call it Boston, just like the original Boston in England.
People from Boston, MA. still use the "R", pronouncing it Borston!

 

[Jay.]

That leads me to believe that English people speak English the way English people should. And that means we Americans, in fact, are the ones doing it wrong.

Don't tell the Brits that we're the ones doing it wrong! We changed the rules, so we're automatically right!

I don't see many Brits in here standing up for our language.
The way most people concieve what they hear is due to the accent it's spoken in.

At the end of the day, it's called the English Language, (English = England!)
and if what I learned in history is right, the English discovered and populated most of America.
You guys are just English descendants, speaking a varied form of English.

So, people of the Anglosphere, (look it up!), Your accents & pronunciations are the odd ones.


Edit: Not only do you use our language but you also use our names for your towns and cities.
New York, Boston, Dover, Norfolk, New England!
(These are just a few from the top of my head)

 

[daan]

Since Famine was stumped in an earlier thread, I thought it might be fun to see if anyone else can weigh in on the bizarre British custom of adding r's where they shouldn't be and removing r's when they shouldn't be.

English custom. Us Scots manage to pronounce things without the "r" being there.

I can say Comander Data properly. And I can also say drawing without pronouncing it as drawring.

 

[Moglet]

Then why not SPELL it that way?

Beecos thats not how langwij wurks is it?

 

[ExigeEvan]

It's not because we add an 'r', we just pronounce the vowels softer.

It's what seperates us from the Germans.

 

[Dave A]

Agreed, with the exception of the "eearr" scallies who should all be rounded up and shot.

 

[Philly]

If you want to get technical, all English speakers speak a messed-up version of German....

And we Americans are the closest to pronouncing it phonetically, so would that make us right?

 

[Venari]

Well, if you want to talk about spelling vs pronunciation reform, it is Mark Twain, that most American of wits who hit the nail square on the head:

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" — bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez — tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

English custom. Us Scots manage to pronounce things without the "r" being there.

I can say Comander Data properly. And I can also say drawing without pronouncing it as drawring.

Oh yeah, a Scot wading in on the correct pronunciation of things? Ha ha ha! And one from Lanarkshire at that!

Since Famine was stumped in an earlier thread, I thought it might be fun to see if anyone else can weigh in on the bizarre British custom of adding r's where they shouldn't be and removing r's when they shouldn't be.

I first noticed this from watching Patrick Stewart on Star Trek.

"Comanda Dater and I will lead the team."

There it is right there. "Comanda" is mispronounced, and then right after, we see the missing "r" has gotten transposed to the end of his name.

What's the deal?

I think it's to do with running words together. There's an implied 'r' in the way that things are pronounced singly, but when two vowels are run together in word joins, enunciation of that implied 'r' serves as a marker point between the two words.

 

[ExigeEvan]

If you want to get technical, all English speakers speak a messed-up version of German....

True, English is a germanic language. It makes me wonder even more why Britain didn't turn to Welsh in WW2

And we Americans are the closest to pronouncing it phonetically, so would that make us right?

No, because that's like saying "Brits on Tour" speak French better than the French because they pronounce all the 's'.

Part of learning a language is learning the accent. Ask anyone who has learnt a foreign language in an accademic environment. Hell, you even get marked on your accent in your speaking exams.

 

[Philly]

True, English is a germanic language. It makes me wonder even more why Britain didn't turn to Welsh in WW2

Maybe English has enough French in it that they got over that fact?

No, because that's like saying "Brits on Tour" speak French better than the French because they pronounce all the 's'.

Part of learning a language is learning the accent. Ask anyone who has learnt a foreign language in an accademic environment. Hell, you even get marked on your accent in your speaking exams.

I am aware that learning a language has a lot to do with accent. I took French for a number of years in high school and got a pertty good grasp of how to pronounce things. Now I can't for the life of me figure out how to say anything in German without getting totally mixed up.

But I have heard, be it "right" or "not," that west-coast dwellers, because we have the "newest" mix tend to go without an accent, pronouncing things quite phonetically, like how the media talks.

 

[Sakiale]

I know for sure that people here in Maine that have a strong accent talk like that. The history teacher I had last year called China, Chiner. Then he would call a girl in the class who's name was jessica, jessiker.

I think it's just people's accents.

Mine tooo... he's British. Mr. Collins?

Then again, so does Bush... "Chiner and its nucular toys of lead paint and mass destruction must be stopped"

 

[Philly]

Then again, so does Bush... "Chiner and its nucular toys of lead paint and mass destruction must be stopped"

No... The southern accent (which could be said is the least "proper" english accent) and a British one (the most) don't really sound similar.

 

[sukerkin]

I was going to weigh in on this but I see that Jay did it for me 👍.

The only thing to add is what you see in the 'pronunciation gap' is the product of the isolation that communities in America suffered. Essentially, for no readily explicable reason, American-English simply stopped evolving in the same way.

English is a living and evolving language that is essentially the bastard-child of many other languages around the world. It is at its core Latin/Germanic (not to be confused with German per se) but also has a substantial leavening of Romance, Arabic and Chinese, to name but a few.

Sadly, the Information Age is continuing the work of the Print Age of standardising everything and eradicating words, phrases and meanings that do not fit the political agenda of those that govern all {it's an Illuminati Plot I tell you! }.

So soon, once the Neo-Crusade has been lost and China steps in to fill the power vacuum, this will cease to be an issue .

 

[YSSMAN]

American history tells us that our leaders (white, land-owning men) were busy choosing between English and German as our official language. Brains won-out, and we stuck with English, albeit with a few changes to separate us from the Crown. Thusly we "destroyed" (depends on who you ask) words like "colour" and "theatre" and changed them to the American "color" and "theater," just to be different.

Its not necessarily our "isolation" from the rest of the English-speaking world (the UK, Ireland and Australia), but our complete rejection of your rules and regulations uppon us, by which we fought so hard to throw off.

Personally speaking, it never really made much of a difference to me. In my opinion, American-English makes more sense (phonetically speaking) than English-English, quite possibly making it more easy to learn for other non-English speaking folks out there. I very well may be mistaken, however, but it likely depends on who you ask.

Throughout the United States and Canada you're going to find a pretty wild form of English from State-to-State, and occasionally even city-to-city. I'd love to think that we here in the Mid-West have the most "normal" form of the language in use, but that may or may not be the case. Throwing accents into the picture, not to mention other regional words and expressions, and it gets even more messed up (just look at the difference here in Michigan between the "trolls" like me, and the UPers).

 

[Grand Prix]

Apparently I pronounce "about the house" as "aboot the hoose" or aboat the hoase" to Americans, but to me it sounds completely normal???

 

[YSSMAN]

You Canuks have a totally different way of saying things, eh? Sounds aboot right, eh?

---

Makes me think of South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut, Canadian Bacon, and Strange Brew.

 

[Stevisiov]

True, English is a germanic language. It makes me wonder even more why Britain didn't turn to Welsh in WW2

Because If I was asked to baracade 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch' I would end up making greenland look more secure than fort noxx

 

[Liquid]

Digging up an old thread because this thread is quite interesting.

The 'schwa' is a linguistic phenomenon which is often pronounced as an 'er'; it's the end sound in the word sister (Sis-ter) but due to my own accent I think it sounds more like a 'ur' sound, as in the North English pronunciation of urban, urn, bourbon, urgh, ergonomics. To me it has a very 'U' sound about it. The schwa exists in such words as:

Taken, supply, Persia. The spelling differs because like most languages, the standard english alphabet has more sounds than letters. (By standard alphabet I mean as opposed to the phonetic alphabet)

American pronunciation of the 'schwa', which is in the example given of 'Commander Data' is slightly more glottal I believe. I think it depends on your accent whether both Commander and Data have a schwa sound on the end. In American english, I believe data is normally pronounced da-da (The closest approximation I can do; I don't know the phonetic alphabet, and Ts in the middle of words are often Ds in American English I find). This is opposed to the British English, which is usually day-ter.

So with the phrase Commander Data, it depends on your accent as to whether there is one Schwa or two, because same words in the same language sound different in different accents.

I'm far from an expert in linguistics, but doing a degree in German has inadvertently given me a better insight into English, and doing a beginner's course in Dutch unearthed the Schwa to me.

Hope this helps.

 

[lbsf1]

My personal opinion,

If you want to do an easy vagely american accent just speak nasely (It partially works). Now try to say r like that, its very difficult.

If I go back to your original example of data then americans pronounce "a" different to us. So it suits your accent to not prounce the r however with our accent pronouncing the r is very natural.

Also if you go to the streets in england most people don't pronounce like you see on tv, mainly because normal street voices don't work easily on tv.

 

[zedextreme8177]

You think that's bad, try listening to Maldivian news-casters who try to speak in an English accent