C&D 997 GT3 Review

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Poverty

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Car & Driver
Driver involvement — it’s what distinguishes cars we lust after from cars that merely have impressive performance specifications. It’s what makes a Porsche Boxster so much better to drive than the quicker Corvette convertible.

Find the rest of the article at the link below.

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10864/first-drive-2007-porsche-911-gt3-997.html

I dont care what anyone says but ive just got to have one of these one days. Screw audi's:drool: :scared: :crazy:
 
Now that's a car, but it's still plauged by the big Porsche problem, the problem with Porsche's is that as good as they are they're all over the damn place.
 
The back 👍
The front 👎
It looks like they just drew a smilie face on the stock design, and built it that way.

I'll take a 996..

Better yet, a 993 GT2. kthxbai
 
It's funny looking at the comments here, but when I read the article I never once looked at any pictures. If I was going to buy a car like this I couldn't care less about the looks, the important things would be the handling, the noise, and the driving experience.
 
amp88
It's funny looking at the comments here, but when I read the article I never once looked at any pictures. If I was going to buy a car like this I couldn't care less about the looks, the important things would be the handling, the noise, and the driving experience.
Alright then, for the sake of having nothing better to do...

$106,000 USD for a 997 GT3. You can get plenty of other cars (Noble M12 [I think they're sold for ~$100,000 here], Lotus Elise/Exige, that car we're all sick of hearing about that starts with a Z and ends with a 6 and has a 0 in the middle, and whatever other track oriented cars you can think of) for much less money, and possibly get a better driving experience. Also they don't look god awful, and people won't laugh at you for driving a smilie-faced Porsche on the way home from the track.
 
Id go out on a limb and say the GT3 is beter by quite a margin than all those cars you listed. And its beautiful.
 
MistaX
Alright then, for the sake of having nothing better to do...

$106,000 USD for a 997 GT3. You can get plenty of other cars (Noble M12 [I think they're sold for ~$100,000 here], Lotus Elise/Exige, that car we're all sick of hearing about that starts with a Z and ends with a 6 and has a 0 in the middle, and whatever other track oriented cars you can think of) for much less money, and possibly get a better driving experience. Also they don't look god awful, and people won't laugh at you for driving a smilie-faced Porsche on the way home from the track.

Ok. We each have our opinions :)
 
Poverty
Id go out on a limb and say the GT3 is beter by quite a margin than all those cars you listed. And its beautiful.
Proof. Please, proof.
 
MistaX
Proof. Please, proof.

Well, how are we defining best? Fastest (straight line, track, winding road), cheapest, best-looking (entirely subjective), best value for money (brings us back to how we're measuring how good a car is) etc?

IMO this GT3 is one of the most desirable cars in the world. You might not agree with me, but it doesn't change my opinion :)
 
I've been in a 996 GT3, I'm not saying it's a bad car at all. I'm just taking the other side of the argument because I can, and because I'm bored

Since these are consitered "Track cars" I assume the best judgement is how fast they can go around a track. Which is hard to judge, since it depends on the driver. But in a perfect world, where we could have a constant condition, and a consistent driver, one car would be faster than the rest.

I wouldn't call the GT3 really desirable, because after all it IS a track car.
 
MistaX
Proof. Please, proof.

To start with this is an entirely subjective area (all road tests and reviews are), but to start the Lotus Elise/Exige (great cars that they are) are not even in the division performance wise, nor is the Noble M12 which is an old model. The newer Noble M400 would be a closer match.

But as to which one is better M400 / GT3 / F430 / Z06 well that is a far more subjective question.

The only thing I can say on the subject is that I was rabidly anti-Porsche for many, many years. Just did not see the big deal about them. That was until I drove one, it was only for about 10-15 minutes at a proving ground I was working at. That short amount of time was more than enough however to totally change my mind. The bog standard 911 I drove (993 series) was quite simply one of most driver focused and orientated cars I had (and still has) even driven.

Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion, and thats mine, but if you have never had the chance to drive a Porsche don't dismiss them out of hand. I used to and now very much regret it, yes you do see a lot on the roads (but not many GT3s I warrant) that doesn't however make them any less of a car.

After all I see a lot of M3's around, the number and frequency of sightings is not directly proportional to a cars ability!!!!

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
To start with this is an entirely subjective area (all road tests and reviews are), but to start the Lotus Elise/Exige (great cars that they are) are not even in the division performance wise, nor is the Noble M12 which is an old model. The newer Noble M400 would be a closer match.
I'm just going by what I know is sold here. I'm not 100% sure you can get an M400 here, but I know you can get an M12.

Although the Elise/Exige isn't in the same power class, it's still in the same classification of a car. Which is "Track Car" It's in the same class as the Ultima GTR, Radical SR3, Ariel Atom, etc.
Also, since when did horsepower determine how fast a car can get around a track? And it entirely depends on what track we're talking about.
I'm sure on a tight, twisty, slow course an Exige could give a GT3 a real run, but on a more open, high speed oriented course, a GT3 could very well walk away.

Scaff
But as to which one is better M400 / GT3 / F430 / Z06 well that is a far more subjective question.
Obviously, but after all, there will ALWAYS be one better than the other. It's just a matter of arguing about which one it is.

Scaff
The only thing I can say on the subject is that I was rabidly anti-Porsche for many, many years. Just did not see the big deal about them. That was until I drove one, it was only for about 10-15 minutes at a proving ground I was working at. That short amount of time was more than enough however to totally change my mind. The bog standard 911 I drove (993 series) was quite simply one of most driver focused and orientated cars I had (and still has) even driven.
Driven an S2000?
Scaff
Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion, and thats mine, but if you have never had the chance to drive a Porsche don't dismiss them out of hand. I used to and now very much regret it, yes you do see a lot on the roads (but not many GT3s I warrant) that doesn't however make them any less of a car.

After all I see a lot of M3's around, the number and frequency of sightings is not directly proportional to a cars ability!!!!

Regards

Scaff
It doesn't matter how many are out there, it matters more who owns them, and what they're doing with them.
Owning a GT3 and never tracking it is a sin, same for owning a Boxster and thinking you're really cool.
 
MistaX
I'm sure on a tight, twisty, slow course an Exige could give a GT3 a real run, but on a more open, high speed oriented course, a GT3 could very well walk away.

A Cayman S will walk away from an Exige on mid-high speed track like Road Atlanta. I imagine a GT3 would leave an Exige in the dust without trying too hard.

Owning a GT3 and never tracking it is a sin, same for owning a Boxster and thinking you're really cool.

What's wrong with a Boxster?


M
 
///M-Spec
A Cayman S will walk away from an Exige on mid-high speed track like Road Atlanta. I imagine a GT3 would leave an Exige in the dust without trying too hard.
As I said, it all depends on the track. For an example, try out the Motorsport Elise in GT4, then take the 3400S, on a few different tracks, and compare times.

///M-Spec
What's wrong with a Boxster?


M

There's nothing wrong with the car itself, but there are plenty of things wrong with the owners.
I've met quite a few, and they all share the same traits. They all think they're really, really, really, really awesome. Since the owners I met were at autocrosses, they all thought they were god's gift to racing, even though most of them were way down the bottom of the list.
The only reason why they were even there were to talk about how awesome they were, as one whole group of pretentious assmonkeys.

The Boxster is, quite simply, a budget Porsche, and it has budget owners.
I hate to associate a car with it's owner group, but in this case, it's unavoidable. It's the same as thinking of an SRT-4. There's no way to just think of the car, while ignoring who drives them.

Now that I think of it, there's one thing wrong with the Boxster. You can double it's price in options. There's more options for it than there are pieces used in the car.
 
MistaX
I'm just going by what I know is sold here. I'm not 100% sure you can get an M400 here, but I know you can get an M12.

Although the Elise/Exige isn't in the same power class, it's still in the same classification of a car. Which is "Track Car" It's in the same class as the Ultima GTR, Radical SR3, Ariel Atom, etc.
Also, since when did horsepower determine how fast a car can get around a track? And it entirely depends on what track we're talking about.
I'm sure on a tight, twisty, slow course an Exige could give a GT3 a real run, but on a more open, high speed oriented course, a GT3 could very well walk away.

The cars you have listed may well all fall into the 'Track Car' category but could hardly be classed as in the same league as each other.

Its a little like comparing a Toyota Celica and a Nissan 350z because they are both Coupes. Its true, but its not like for like by any means.

An Exige would struggle to keep up with a GT3 on anything but the most stupidly tight course, certainly on the majority of balanced race tracks in the world the GT3 would certainly have the edge.


MistaX
Obviously, but after all, there will ALWAYS be one better than the other. It's just a matter of arguing about which one it is.
It also depends on what you criteria are, and if its handling then that ssuch a difficult and diverse (and personal) subject that is very had to quantify. Performance figures, including Lat-g and slaloms, tell you very little about the true handling qualities of a car.


MistaX
Driven an S2000?
Yes, its a nice car. Personally I found the engine a little peaky for my personally tastes and the back end is more than a tad snappy. Chassis wise its not even in the same class as a Porsche, but that once again is my personally opinion.


MistaX
It doesn't matter how many are out there, it matters more who owns them, and what they're doing with them.
Owning a GT3 and never tracking it is a sin, same for owning a Boxster and thinking you're really cool.

Sorry but that is utter rubbish. What you have refered to there is the image of a car. Ownership profiles and common useage have as little to do with the handling ability of a car as does how common it is.

Take the Ford Focus as an example, it has one of the single most advanced rear suspension layouts ever designed for a volume FWD road car, it handles excellently, even in its most basic form. This doesn't change because the vast majority of owner use them simple to get from a to b.

While I would agree that not tracking a GT3 would be a bit of a sin, the statement you make about the Boxster is again strange. Are trying to say that its any less of a car (universally praised as one of the great driver focused cars of our time) because some of the owners bought it to pose in?

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
The cars you have listed may well all fall into the 'Track Car' category but could hardly be classed as in the same league as each other.

Its a little like comparing a Toyota Celica and a Nissan 350z because they are both Coupes. Its true, but its not like for like by any means.
Well, I don't see how the track car class is even split up any further than just "Track car" Whereas the "Coupe" example would be split as the Celica in the "Economy Coupe" and the 350Z being in the "Sports Coupe" which could even be further split.

I would figure you could split "Track Car" down by "Full Bodied" or not, one side having the Radical/Atom and the other having the GT3, etc.
But further than that, I don't see how it could be. You can't split cars by power numbers alone.

Scaff
An Exige would struggle to keep up with a GT3 on anything but the most stupidly tight course, certainly on the majority of balanced race tracks in the world the GT3 would certainly have the edge.

You win this one, but that's just the Exige.

It also depends on what you criteria are, and if its handling then that ssuch a difficult and diverse (and personal) subject that is very had to quantify. Performance figures, including Lat-g and slaloms, tell you very little about the true handling qualities of a car.

Well that's true. A car may handle great to one person but handle terribly to another. I guess it's personal taste to have a bit more understeer or a bit more oversteer. So after all, what is good handling anyway?

Scaff
Yes, its a nice car. Personally I found the engine a little peaky for my personally tastes and the back end is more than a tad snappy. Chassis wise its not even in the same class as a Porsche, but that once again is my personally opinion.
I just mentioned that because you said the Porsche was driver oriented, and so is the S2K. I can't say I've driven a Porsche, but I have driven the Honda.
And it was BY FAR the most "Driver Car" I've driven.
I should mention that I drove a 2005 model, with the 2.2L Engine and the revised suspension. So it didn't have that snap oversteer.


Scaff
Sorry but that is utter rubbish. What you have refered to there is the image of a car. Ownership profiles and common useage have as little to do with the handling ability of a car as does how common it is.

Take the Ford Focus as an example, it has one of the single most advanced rear suspension layouts ever designed for a volume FWD road car, it handles excellently, even in its most basic form. This doesn't change because the vast majority of owner use them simple to get from a to b.

While I would agree that not tracking a GT3 would be a bit of a sin, the statement you make about the Boxster is again strange. Are trying to say that its any less of a car (universally praised as one of the great driver focused cars of our time) because some of the owners bought it to pose in?

Regards

Scaff

I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me about that. In my opinion owners play a HUGE role in a car. It doesn't take away any performance, but it does take away appeal. Appeal is a major part of a car, no?
I'm sure the Boxster is a great car, but I just couldn't see myself driving one, due to the people that have ruined the car for me.
 
///M-Spec
It's totally, utterly lame... 👎










...that I can't afford one right now.


M

Hahahah, nice one, I was scrolling through quickly and you made me go back up.


I agree that there will be too many of these things on the road though, I've been seeing this with the 996 GT3. I died a little inside when I saw someone driving their GT3 to pick up their kids from school. I think the nomenclature is causing this problem, people who don't know cars just see GT3 and say "oh that's got the highest number in the name it's the best." Couple years back I also heard some kids talking about the GT3, without knowing what a GT2 is or they didn't care because you know, 3 is larger than 2.
 
MistaX
Well, I don't see how the track car class is even split up any further than just "Track car" Whereas the "Coupe" example would be split as the Celica in the "Economy Coupe" and the 350Z being in the "Sports Coupe" which could even be further split.

I would figure you could split "Track Car" down by "Full Bodied" or not, one side having the Radical/Atom and the other having the GT3, etc.
But further than that, I don't see how it could be. You can't split cars by power numbers alone.

Quite a diverse range of track cars exist and they could be split down in a number of different ways, price, power to weight, road legality, etc, etc.

Take the Radical and the Atom, they are actually very different cars. The SR3 while being road legal (if you want) is basically a pure track car, with the benefit of downforce. The Atom on the other hand would be much more at home on the road, but is a lot less track focused than the Radical.


MistaX
Well that's true. A car may handle great to one person but handle terribly to another. I guess it's personal taste to have a bit more understeer or a bit more oversteer. So after all, what is good handling anyway?

Quite right and it goes beyond even the balance preference and into how well the car 'talks' to you and you are able to read what its is doing and how near the limit it is.

Thats why lat-g and slalom figures are misleading, a car with far higher grip limits but doesn't let you know when its near the limit will in most peoples hands be far slower than a car with a lower level of grip, but which lets you know exactly when you reach that limit.

Its why cars like the Lotus Elan are held in such high regard, very low levels of grip, but the chassis and steering let you know exactly what the car is doing. Its not something you can put a numerical value to.


MistaX
I just mentioned that because you said the Porsche was driver oriented, and so is the S2K. I can't say I've driven a Porsche, but I have driven the Honda.
And it was BY FAR the most "Driver Car" I've driven.
I should mention that I drove a 2005 model, with the 2.2L Engine and the revised suspension. So it didn't have that snap oversteer.
It was the original model that I drove and I would like to try the '05 as they have apperently done a lot of work on it.

Don't get me wrong the S2K is a driver focused car, its just not the most driver focused car I've ever driven (and it is very snappy on the limit - thank god for old airfields), the 911 on the other hand was one of the most driver focused cars I've ever had the pleasure to drive.


MistaX
I don't think anyone has ever agreed with me about that. In my opinion owners play a HUGE role in a car. It doesn't take away any performance, but it does take away appeal. Appeal is a major part of a car, no?
I'm sure the Boxster is a great car, but I just couldn't see myself driving one, due to the people that have ruined the car for me.

Its a difficult one and maybe to a degree Boxster owners in the USA are worse than ones in the UK, still I would never let an image stop me from sampling a good car.

Regards

Scaff
 
MR's. One of the best handling cars in the world. Go on a porsche forum and many of the 911 owners used to have an M3. They will never turn back now.

Also the s2000 is a brilliant car to the fact that they call it a cheap mans boxster.

I have only ever seen one GT3 in the last year and it was astonishing. I didnt like porsches too much till the 997, but even when I walk up to a 996 and have a close look im amazed at how beautifully built it is.

I shall now go out on another limb and say porsches, overall are better than ferraris.

One thing is that with the likes of the porsche people want to hate the car and then they drive it. They then fell inlove.
 
MistaX
As I said, it all depends on the track. For an example, try out the Motorsport Elise in GT4, then take the 3400S, on a few different tracks, and compare times.

And that's why I specified the exact track. It was a supporting post, in case there was any doubt.

There's nothing wrong with the car itself, but there are plenty of things wrong with the owners.
I've met quite a few, and they all share the same traits. They all think they're really, really, really, really awesome. Since the owners I met were at autocrosses, they all thought they were god's gift to racing, even though most of them were way down the bottom of the list.
The only reason why they were even there were to talk about how awesome they were, as one whole group of pretentious assmonkeys.

Well, I autocrossed for a few years and in my experience, pretentious assmonkeys arrive in every sort of car. I once spoke to a guy who drove a mid '80s Civic CRX who told me his car should be re-classed because it was an overdog and he dominates at every event. To be fair, he was a very good driver and the car was very well dialed in. But between choosing to be humble about it and being cocky about it, he chose the latter.

I also once spoke to an E46 M3 owner who looked down his nose at me (at the time, a lowly E36 M3 owner) when I went over to chit-chat. I noticed later he wasn't quite so smug when I was averaging about 4 seconds quicker than his best run.

On the other hand, I've also met a guy once who showed up in a Z06 and asked me for tips and a ride-along despite the fact that his car would pipe mine. I, myself have asked for tips and ride-alongs from drivers more experienced than I --no matter what they drive. And I drive a brand of car notorious for being owned by insufferable, arrogant p&*%ks.

Arrogance doesn't last long in Solo II or any kind of track event. And if it does, it is usually well earned. The Boxster is a good autocross/track car, but it can be EASILY outdone by cheaper, less prestigious cars. It wouldn't take long for some guy who thinks his car was ALL THAT to have some cold water thrown on him.


The Boxster is, quite simply, a budget Porsche, and it has budget owners.
I hate to associate a car with it's owner group, but in this case, it's unavoidable. It's the same as thinking of an SRT-4. There's no way to just think of the car, while ignoring who drives them.

That's too bad you feel the need to judge people on the type of car they drive. Personally, I've met some very nice Porsche owners and a very good friend of mine owns a Boxster. I didn't notice he became more assclownish than usual when he bought it.

Now that I think of it, there's one thing wrong with the Boxster. You can double it's price in options. There's more options for it than there are pieces used in the car.

Probably. Porsches can be quite overpriced for what they are. But then again, so are many, many cars. If bang for the buck was all that mattered, we'd all be driving Fox bodied Mustangs.


M
 
Scaff
Yes, its a nice car. Personally I found the engine a little peaky for my personally tastes and the back end is more than a tad snappy. Chassis wise its not even in the same class as a Porsche, but that once again is my personally opinion.

I've driven/autocrossed both cars and I would agree. The S2k is a superb car, but the Boxster is simply better.

Scaff
Its a difficult one and maybe to a degree Boxster owners in the USA are worse than ones in the UK, still I would never let an image stop me from sampling a good car.

There is a strangely high degree of hostility towards the Boxster in the US from auto enthusiasts. This is probably because many enthusiasts here are very hung up on horsepower and when the original car debuted with only 201, they naturally assumed it was a hairdresser's car.

Not many people would take the time, nor have the opportunity, nor have the talent to discover just how good the chassis and overall driving experience is.


M
 
///M-Spec
I've driven/autocrossed both cars and I would agree. The S2k is a superb car, but the Boxster is simply better.



There is a strangely high degree of hostility towards the Boxster in the US from auto enthusiasts. This is probably because many enthusiasts here are very hung up on horsepower and when the original car debuted with only 201, they naturally assumed it was a hairdresser's car.

Not many people would take the time, nor have the opportunity, nor have the talent to discover just how good the chassis and overall driving experience is.


M

you know i have the same thoughts. when i see a boxster i appriciate it because i have, luckly been able to drive one, ONCE! and it was such an amazing ride. handles amazingly. people look over it because they could easily go for the "bigger, better" 997, but they overlook that the boxster is made by porsche too! its a shame that people look down on it. i love it personally.
 
IMO: GT3 > Turbo

For just a bit over $100K, you can't go wrong with the GT3. The lack of the turbos may not make the car as exciting, but the high-rev 3.6L F6 will get you moving, and would be a blast to drive.

Porsche expierence? Just once, a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera S convertable. Lots of fun to drive, a bit more difficult than I had expected, but scary fast with only a F6.

Compared against the Z06, M15, Segaris, etc. the GT3 is going to be a powerful compeditor just like it's sibling, the 911 Turbo.

Great Car!
 
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