Call to Civility -- Second Edition

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TAFJonathan

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Wow.
GTP, over the last month or two, has gone to hell. I used to come here pretty frequently...I'd spend an hour here in a day sometimes (that's a lot)...occasionally more. It was fun -- when I was here, I forgot about the stresses and problems I was having in the real world. In the first week of this summer I broke my ankle playing in a pick-up baseball game...that rendered me pretty much unable to do anything outside of work for the entire summer. When I get home from work, all I can do is sit down in front of the TV, read a book, or get on the computer (and sometime go flying).

Because of this, I've spent a significantly larger amount of time at GTP. No matter how fun it is, I'd rather be doing something more active...but it's better than nothing. There are a lot of you who spend 6-8 hours on here REGULARLY...not when you are immobile or unable to do anything...when you are HEALTHY and could be out with friends, at the pool, or WORKING, like the rest of the human race. In the last few weeks this place has lost almost all elements of "fun" for me....it's been a bunch of petty, squabbling 13 year-olds who waste their precious time insulting each other on the internet. More threads have been closed in the last 2 weeks than I saw in the entire 10 months that I'd been here before that...and that's NOT an exaggeration.

Anyway...this is a bit long-winded...I wish all of you who are here way too much would find something more meaningful to do. I'm not saying you should stop coming to GTP...but for the kids here, is there any justification for sitting in a chair for 12 hours when you could be out enjoying the world...dating...going to the pool...or doing stuff with family and friends? Is there any reason to get MAD, and throw FITS, and insult people you've never even met? Hell...I'm contemplating whether or not taking the 10 minutes to write this is a waste of my time when I could be enjoying the writing of Ernest Gann in his masterpiece "Fate is the Hunter" (if you don't have this book, pick it up).

Long story short...I'm tired of seeing Jordan's effort be demeaned, insulted, and ruined by the stupidity which seems to be rampant here. I run an internet board, and can sympathize with him when people make it their goal to destroy, harm, or belittle his work. There's nothing wrong with being here...there's nothing WRONG with spending a lot of time here...but don't be an idiot, don't make it unenjoyable for others here, and don't make Jordan's work worthless by trashing the place.

If this post sounds hypocritical (as I can imagine it might...there are some contradictory messages) then feel free to tell me. Let's work on telling me, however, with words other than ****, ****, and *****...rather with intelligent conversation. Maybe that'll be the first step to a more enjoyable internet COMMUNITY.
 
its that kind of mentality that destroys internet forums, if you think something bad is going to happen it probably will... if you ignore it it'll probably go away.

i wan't it to stay open, i always wanted to comment on the other one.
 
Originally posted by chevette
i suggest it stays open for some discussion. INTELLIGENT discussion, not childish name calling.
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I agree. It should stay open, but at the first sign of it getting out of hand, it should be closed.
 
Originally posted by Stealth Viper
...I'd rather be doing something more active...but it's better than nothing. There are a lot of you who spend 6-8 hours on here REGULARLY...not when you are immobile or unable to do anything...when you are HEALTHY and could be out with friends, at the pool, or WORKING, like the rest of the human race. In the last few weeks this place has lost almost all elements of "fun" for me....it's a bunch of petty, squabbling 13 year-olds who waste their precious time insulting each other on the internet. More threads have been closed in the last 2 weeks than I saw in the entire 10 months that I'd been here before that...and that's NOT an exaggeration.
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thats true for the most part, in my case i sit on the computer at certain times of the day, go on the GTF and come here... i have nothing (seriously, nothing) else to do, i don't have a job, i don't know alot of people, there isn't a whole lot to do around here so i spend alot of time on the internet... everyones situation is different, there isn't always a ton of things to do. theres like one (crappy) pool around here, so thats out. friends... its hard for me to get ahold of my friend... so thats all out.

yeah, alot of threads have been closed, a few people banned. not all of the threads closed were controversial, they were just filled with crap.
 
Now on topic I can see why your upset, but it won't change anything. Like when I had my Civic and I raced. I was flammed constaly and I tried to be cival. So I guess thats not the right way of doing things. I found the more you want to have a intelligant disscussion it wont work. Just constant flamming.
Also why hate each other? We have to be on the forums together so why not be friendly to each other. Or if you do find that you need to say something to someone do it in a cival manner.

I know this won't change anything but I tried and amitt defeat
 
I have been astounded at how quickly a lot of the discussions have disintegrated into swearing and name calling.

I log in from work (as indeed I'm doing now) now and then as a mental 'stretch my legs' and so I'm reasonably up with new posts in threads, and I'll always check them out - but in the last couple of days, a lot of those posts have been high quality stuff like 'shut up!', 'd*ckhead, 'you don't know ****' - you know, the really high brow stuff. That certainly knocks the edge off your day, when the thing you do to relieve the aggravation of work causes aggravation.

I don't mind disagreeing and a bit of tooing and froing, but try to do it civilly, or at least with a little grace and humour.

If I want to see that crap, I can just wander over the road and see the no-hopers fighting as they wait for the methodone clinic to open at the nearby hospital!
 
Yes, vat_man, I agree with you. The main message of the thread was the latter half...not the first. It doesn't bother me that people spend a lot of time here...although I think many go overboard...it's when they spend a lot of time here with the intention of only annoying or destroying that is frustrating.
 
Totally agree - although I spend more time than I probably should. If they start checking internet usage here expect to see my time logged on go way down!
 
I usally spend a lot of time here. Probaly to much. But when I go out its during the day. I'm usally here at night. When me and my girlfriend go out we go out during the day cause she works at night.
 
Again -- the main message was not that it's bad to spend a lot of time here...although that isn't really a good thing...it's that it's bad to spend a lot of time here and not contribute...only destroy. Perhpas I should simply edit out the first third of the message...
 
Ok thats true. I can see spending time if its productive. I try to be productive when I'm on.
 
:thumbsup: Something to point out...., the old saying "one rotten apple spoils the whole bucket" goes a long ways in these theads. It only takes one person to cross that line, it has to always start with at least one persons actions (words) to ruin a perfectly good (sometimes not so good) thread.

How each member "reacts" to such posts determines how the situation is handled. If everyone takes the responsibiltiy of maintaining a quality community (as most do) then there isn't a problem, but rather just instances that need to be handled. History here at GTP shows us that time will weed out rotten eggs...., but it also shows us how great this community is that people accross the globe actually cares what happens here...

So my suggestion is to not react to situations, trying to handle a thread that's gotten out of hand by your self, rather, report the thread to a mod/admin that has authority to handle such situations.

We have a good thing going here and I think most of us realize that.

:cheers:
 
Originally posted by Stealth Viper
Again -- the main message was not that it's bad to spend a lot of time here...although that isn't really a good thing...it's that it's bad to spend a lot of time here and not contribute...only destroy. Perhpas I should simply edit out the first third of the message...
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No need - I don't think anyone's particularly worried about it. It didn't register with me when I replied the first time.
 
GTP was created for people to share their knowledge with other people who need it. One asks questions, another provides the answers. There is absolutely NO need for flaming or cursing people out. If a person has a disagreement, then state the arguement in a polite manner, and then drop it. The problem is that people go TOO far to prove a point and it causes major damage to the quality of this forum. As for people who spend way to much time indoors, well, there is nothing I can do about that. But I'm glad I'm not one of them.
Now, I know I sound like your grandma (or parole officer) I think that all of you agree that I'm right. As for the solution, I'm sure Jordan and the mods are doing their best to keep it clean. Maybe someone should post their ideas on this situation in the suggestions forum (if not already done so)
Whew!! Now I can rest.
 
Originally posted by vat_man

If I want to see that crap, I can just wander over the road and see the no-hopers fighting as they wait for the methodone clinic to open at the nearby hospital!
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What a line! What an incredible line! This should be on some plaque or something where everyone can see it! This is a great line! :) !!! :D
 
As I prepared my comments and retorts, I flipped onto the reply page. A small note at the bottom of the page caught my eye

A special note to Der Alta:

Are you getting ready to post a degrading, harsh, or downright stupid comment?
Think before you speak! GTPlanet is only as good as you make it.
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Not sure if that's directed at me, or a new feature visible on all the pages.

I originally visited the GTF for quite sometime. It had server problems, and I found this site. It was a group of friendly people who had loads of info to help me in my journey through GT3. For the first 3-4 months of visiting, I was quiet, and read alot. Got to know a bit about people like Axletramp, and Dangerpowers. Two great guys who were more than willing to share. I haven't sen them around in 2months or so. Kinda miss those guys.

The degeneration of this site in the last month has astounded me. I was amazed to watch the influx of new people. All welcomed aboard with enthusiasm. Many imformative and civil conversations spiralled out of control. I think of this forum as a meeting place, not a high school dance. The meeting allows for posting of questions, discussion of the question, and an understandable consensus. A high school dance, you get a thousand one liners. No real conversations. Just a bunch of kids running around, screaming to music. There usually is a theme to the dance, and a couple teenagers in teh corne riding the hormal concorde until the teacher catches them.

GTPlanet has slowly started to descend into the dance arena. More of us have to start acting like teachers, and less like children. Noone knows how old you are on the net...

Stealth Viper has a very definite point. There are a few of us who thank Jordan quite a bit, and really hate to see good people leave. Jordan may want to initiate more required info at the "Join" menu. Require the age to be filled in. Anonynimity goes a long way towards people feeling like they can't be held responsible. Possibly a Warning system. i.e. Der Alta: for this stated thread "XXXXX" you have been put on the watched list. two more offenses and you'll be banned. Warning # two gets their name posted on a forum list of last chance offenders. Third offense gets them banned.

On the requirement thing. I know of other forums that have required a "Real" e-mail address (no free ones, like hotmail) to become registered. This e-mail address is only accesible by the head Moderator.

This has become fairly long winded, and I'm at work. While it may seem that I am here for 8-9 hours each day, I'm just taking a moment (Gotta love DSL) to glance through the site.

Thanks again for this opportunity to voice my main greivance.

AO
 
I am registered under the same name. Although I rarely post anything.

AO
 
Well, I agree with a lot of what has been said, so I'll try not to repeat too much. But I've been an admin for more than 5 years at another big BBS/site, and the situation here is very similar.

In any site like this, the quality seems to follow a sine wave: swing up, swing down, swing up again. New people come, old people go, some stay. It's the nature of the beast. A forum like this is like a jury - a true cross section of interested people. Most people are able to behave maturely, but some are too excited about seeing their own words published. There is a recurring pattern of change and adjustment. It doesn't necessarily have to be for the worse every time.

There has been sentiment around that certain members have been picked on, and to some extent this is true. However, in all the instances I've witnessed or been involved with, the person in question initiated the problem through their own attitude.

Honestly, I've never seen a more welcoming forum. Every new member immediately gets numerous "welcome" messages. But some new members come here expecting to make a splash, an attitude that is not appreciated by regulars - especially when it is combined with a lack of knowledge or openmindedness from the new person. This group, rightfully, does not tolerate cockiness very well. So the conflict begins. Some people realize the error of their ways, some don't. We've seen examples of both recently.

Age can be a very general indicator of attitude, but I would rate it very low on the list. There are plenty of examples of people who seem to be twice their real age, and those who seem to be half.

The real question is in what you're willing to learn, and what you're willing to teach. If you realize that everybody needs to do a little of both, then this forum operates wonderfully.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Jordan and the Mod staff again for working to keep this place worthwhile. I'd also like to remind everybody of Giles Guthries' very relevant sig line: This, too, shall pass. GTP is not doomed to flame wars and illiterate bickering.
 

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