Car classification FAIL

[Vegard]

The new time trial at Spa.
I tried to enter with the HPA TT but was not allowed in.
The regulation says non-racecars.
I see the top times have been posted with the R390 GT1 road car.

My question is to PD or anyone willing to play their advocate.
In what universe is the HPA TT lesser a road car than the R390 GT1 road car or the NSX-R LM Prototype road car?

 

[werty_56-1]

Well it's a R390 GT1 ROAD CAR

And

NSX-R LM Prototype ROAD CAR

 

[Famine]

And the HPA is a tuner car.

GT4 was much better with regards to telling you these classifications, but I've carried them over into my car database, to be found stuck to the top of the GT5 Q&A forum.

 

[Vegard]

Well it's a R390 GT1 ROAD CAR

And

NSX-R LM Prototype ROAD CAR

I can read.

You fail to understand.

 

[Vegard]

And the HPA is a tuner car.

GT4 was much better with regards to telling you these classifications, but I've carried them over into my car database, to be found stuck to the top of the GT5 Q&A forum.

You have to agree that the classifications are contradicting themselves.

Most tuner cars are road cars, would you not agree?

I'm just saying: When a R390 GT1 is allowed in and the HPA is not, something is very wrong.

 

[werty_56-1]

HPA = tuning company soo it's like the RM'ed cars

 

[Eezee]

How does tuning a road car make it a non-road car?

 

[Mudd]

I think it's because the HPA is not a production car and the GT1 Road Car is, although only in the technical sense, as I believe they only produced enough to barely qualify it as a 'production' car

 

[kennylmao]

That's what I thought too.

I was like, "What the hell?! People using the R390 GT1 Road Car."

Just trolled myself.

 

[cheba]

I think it's because the HPA is not a production car and the GT1 Road Car is, although only in the technical sense, as I believe they only produced enough to barely qualify it as a 'production' car

According to my google research, only 2 R390 GT1 road cars were made. And since there is also a '97 model with the short tail (this was also featured in GT2), only 1 '98 longtail (the one in GT5) was made.

However, I guess it qualifies as a road car because it was built by a car manufacturer and it was road legal, thus it is a road car (not tuned, not a race car). The HPA TT was built by Audi and modified by HPA, which makes it a tuned car.

Although I think it should be allowed, it is a tuner car which does not make it a race car, and the regulation says "non-racecars".

 

[Short Bus]

Well it's a R390 GT1 ROAD CAR

And

NSX-R LM Prototype ROAD CAR

This is, of course, obvious..... but it still seems to have broken the event if you're interested in taking a shot at being one of the faster guys.

 

[userme5]

I think it's because the HPA is not a production car and the GT1 Road Car is, although only in the technical sense, as I believe they only produced enough to barely qualify it as a 'production' car

there are only 2 in existance

 

[Mudd]

^Yes, and at the time of its design, the Le Mans GT1 regulations required at least one street legal version of each GT1 Race car to be produced. The story goes that Nissan first built the Road car with Le Mans in mind, then built the race car from it.

 

[GETEDA]

The HPA TT is a tuning car no a production car , is only 1.
The R390 Road Car was for sell , is a production car , ok only 2
but only for comply the LM rule.

Road car

Only 2 R390 road cars were ever built, and one is stored at Nissan's Zama warehouse. The street-legal road car is capable of running 0-60 mph in 3.3 seconds and 0-100 mph in just 6.8 seconds. The 1/4 mile is accomplished in just 11.1 seconds at 134 mph (216 km/h). The top speed is 220 mph (350 km/h).

Regards.

 

[userme5]

the only quiestion is, why make so little of theese great machines? this would absolutely destroy even modern day super cars

 

[Famine]

You have to agree that the classifications are contradicting themselves.

Most tuner cars are road cars, would you not agree?

How does tuning a road car make it a non-road car?

You misunderstand.

In GT4 there were four car classifications (something of a carry-over from GT Concept, which introduced it). They were "Race", "Road", "Tuner" and "Concept". All cars fell into these four categories. When a race stated that it was only for road cars, "Race", "Tuner" and "Concept" cars were not permitted (though the AI sometimes used them - but that's a different story).

Now the fact this isn't information that's actually posted anywhere in GT5 is a legitimate gripe. The fact "Tuner" cars aren't allowed into a road car race when "Road" cars are is not.

 

[iLex]

A bit OT and more general, but:
I think they should rethink the restrictions for time trials.
The current restrictions sadly just SCREAM R390 GT1 road car.
Personally I don't have the solution to the problem, although I think that not allowing the power limiter in time trials would help a lot.
The other solution would be to restrict the use to only one car, but personally i wouldn't like that restriction. It is fun to try a few different cars.

 

[Morgoth_666]

the only quiestion is, why make so little of theese great machines? this would absolutely destroy even modern day super cars

Because they would be obscenely expensive to buy, very hard to drive and they could never sell enough to make them affordable to build.

I also suspect(correct me if I'm wrong) that most are only "street legal" in name only with a wink and a nod from the state. I highly doubt that they would be legalized if the manufacturers didn't assure the state that they had no intention of selling them to the public. They might meet some basic rules but that wouldn't change the fact that they would be highly unsafe to their drivers and other people(especially if abused).

None of these sort of "road cars" were ever intended to be anything other than fulfillment of the requirements to run the race cars, whatever the company might say. It's a bit different when, say, 500 have to be built because then they will usually want to sell at least a few.

 

[calico]

It is a bit like the Bugatti Veyron VW built them for a reason and sell them at a loss it is not to make money but to gain popularity and advertisement.

 

[Machate-man]

You misunderstand.

In GT4 there were four car classifications (something of a carry-over from GT Concept, which introduced it). They were "Race", "Road", "Tuner" and "Concept". All cars fell into these four categories. When a race stated that it was only for road cars, "Race", "Tuner" and "Concept" cars were not permitted (though the AI sometimes used them - but that's a different story).

Applying Famine's facts stated in his post:

They were "Race"...

Chapparal 2J, Formula Gran Turismo

..."Road"...

R390 GT1 road car or the NSX-R LM Prototype road car?

..."Tuner"...

HPA TT

...and "Concept".

Dome Zero, Izuzu 4200R


If PD were to be more specific, and if they were to stick with pp only in time trial, I believe that the results would be much more even.

 

[HKS racer]

The R390 GT1 "road car" was born as request by 1998/99 Le Mans regulation.
Basically this car is a race car without spoiler and less hp. in GT5 it keeps race car downforce values.
Being classified as a "road car" it's clearly a loophole as in Motorsport it's common sense refering to 1998/1999 LeMans rules as a GREY area. Those rules have been rewritten.

The NSX LM Prototype "road car" is even worse because this car doesn't even exist. It's just a deliberate loophole made by PD to have another competitive Japanese car in the supercar class.

 

[iLex]

*snip*
Basically this car is a race car without spoiler and less hp. in GT5 it keeps race car downforce values.
*snip*

To make matters worse, you can slap on a spoiler and it'll still be a road car.

 

[evilKnoxville]

They could easily end all debates like these by dictating the car...