Car club idea, feedback?

[jeffgoddin]

Not sure if this goes here or the rumble strip or where, but I've been seriously considering an idea for a car club of sorts, and then I thought, why not ask GTP for feedback?

The basic idea is, there are a ton of cool cheap older cars I'd love to drive but there's no way I'd be able to over the course of my life if I had to buy each one. But I bet I'm not alone in this interest to try out a bunch of cars. So maybe, get a couple hundred other enthusiasts together in the Cleveland-Akron area, everybody chips in, and we buy and warehouse like 100 cars together, and we all get to borrow some on occasion and get together for events over the driving season.

Sounds like a fun, crazy idea to me! But can it actually work? I've got a buddy who thinks maybe it can, and we're trying to work out the details.

For example, the list of cars we both came up with that we'd like to try, all available in decent condition, though sometimes getting up in miles, for under $10k:

Acura Integra GS-R 1994-2001
Acura Integra GS-R 1992-1993
Acura Legend - 1987-1990
Acura Legend - 1993-1995
Alfa Romeo GTV6 - 1981-1986
Alfa Romeo Milano Verde 1988-1989
Alfa Romeo Spider 2000 1972-1990
AMC Alliance GTA 1987
AMC Eagle - 1980-1988
AMC Gremlin - 1970-1978
AMC Pacer - 1975-1980
Audi Coupe GT 1984-1987
Audi Fox - 1973-1979
Audi Ur-S4 1992-1994
Audi Ur-S6 1995-1997
Austin Mini - 1960-1967
BMW 2002 - 1971-1976
BMW 325xi - 1988-1991
BMW 535i - 1985-1988
BMW 635CSI - 1985-1989
BMW Bavaria/2800/3.0 - 1968-1974
BMW M3 - 1995-1999
Checker Marathon - 1961-1982
Chevy Camaro IROC-Z 1987-1990
Chevy Corvette - 1984-1988
Chevy Sprint Turbo 1987-1988
Datsun 510 - 1968-1973
Datsun 280ZX - 1979-1983
Dodge Daytona Shelby Z 1987-1993
Eagle Talon TSi 1995-1998
Fiat 124 Spider - 1968-1978
Fiat 850 Spider - 1967-1973
Fiat (Bertone) X 1/9 - 1981-1988
Ford Escort Turbo 1984-1985
Ford EXP Turbo 1984-1985
Ford Mustang GT 1987-1993
Honda Civic CVCC 1975-1979
Honda Civic Si 1989-1991
Honda Civic Si 1992-1995
Honda CRX Si 1985-1987
Honda CRX Si 1988-1991
Honda del Sol VTEC 1994-1997
Honda Prelude Si 4WS 1988-1991
Honda S2000 - 2000-2003
Honda Z600 - 1971-1972
Isuzu Impulse Turbo 1985-1988
Jaguar XJ6 Series III 1980-1987
Jaguar XJS - 1976-1991
Jensen Healey - 1973-1975
Lancia Zagato - 1979-1982
Mazda Miata - 1994-1997
Mazda Miata Mazdaspeed 2004-2005
Mazda RX-7 - 1981-1985
Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 1981-1985
Mercedes-Benz 300TD Turbodiesel 1982-1985
Mercedes-Benz 450SEL - 1973-1980
Mercedes-Benz 380SL - 1981-1985
Mercury Capri - 1991-1994
Merkur XR4Ti - 1985-1989
MG MGB Mk. II/III 1967-1974
MG Midget Mk. III 1967-1974
Mitsubishi 3000GT - 1994-1999
Mitsubishi Starion - 1982-1987
Nissan 240SX - 1989-1994
Nissan 300ZX - 1984-1988
Nissan NX 2000 1991-1993
Opel GT - 1969-1973
Peugeot 405 Mi 16 1989-1991
Peugeot 504 TD 1974-1983
Peugeot 505 Turbo 1985-1987
Pontiac Fiero - 1984-1988
Porsche 924 - 1977-1982
Porsche 944 Turbo 1986-1989
Renault Fuego Turbo 1983-1984
Renault LeCar - 1976-1983
Saab 96 - 1967-1969
Saab Sonett - 1970-1974
Shelby CSX/CSX-T - 1987-1988
Shelby GLHS - 1986
Shelby Charger GLHS - 1987
Subaru Brat - 1983-1987
Subaru DL/GL - 1980-1984
Subaru SVX - 1992-1997
Subaru XT Turbo 1985-1988
Suzuki Samurai - 1986-1995
Toyota Celica Supra - 1982-1986
Toyota Corolla - 1984-1987
Toyota Land Cruiser - 1980-1989
Toyota MR2 - 1991-1995
Toyota MR2 Supercharged 1988-1989
Toyota Supra - 1987-1992
Triumph Spitfire 1500 1973-1980
Triumph TR7 - 1975-1981
Volvo 780 Turbo 1989-1991
Volkswagen Beetle - 1973-1977
Volkswagen Corrado - 1990-1992
Volkswagen GTI - 1985-1992
Volkswagen Scirocco - 1975-1981
Volkswagen Transporter - 1968-1979
Volkswagen Type 3 Squareback 1966-1973
Yugo GV - 1986-1992

Anything you'd like to try for under $10k that's not on the list?

I don't want to get into details about how to finance it just yet, I'd like to hear opinions, though. Yes, we'd need like $500k to buy all those cars. And like $60k/month to rent the warehouse space. Plus maintenance, administration, and insurance.

More specifically what I'm thinking about doing with the cars is at least three things.

Have 6 or more day long events per year where all the cars are available to be driven in several hour chunks, so everybody can try 3-4-5 cars for a decent bit.

Have maybe 4 two day cruises with accommodations, swapping cars along the way with others in the cruise, heading down to the hills of Kentucky or WV or Pennsylvania and back.

Except for event weekends, having the cars available for borrowing, either for a day, weekend, week, or month, allowing you to swap cars while you have one borrowed.

To pay for everything I'm thinking levels of membership, from cheap which gets you into a couple events and lets you borrow a car for a weekend, to standard with more access to the cars, to premium, which lets you into all events and borrow whatever car you want whenever all year long.

Extra events or borrowing of cars beyond what's allowed by the membership level would be at a fee.

The overriding goal would be to keep this affordable for low-budget enthusiasts like myself. Any creative thoughts? Anybody ever hear of anything like this working?

OR do you think this is a terrible idea? I can't help but picture all the Top Gear budget car challenges... These old cars WILL break down on the road. I figure having a full time mechanic on staff and a lift in the warehouse would help... but there's more money involved. I also figure with good selection of cars that the buying/selling would at least equal out, and we may even make a profit on the cars we buy/sell. It's just such a complex idea I wanted to hear what the GTP community thinks.

Thanks!

 

[Joey D]

The liability would be insanely high with something like this. The first time someone who borrows a car kills themselves or another person, the lawsuits will put you under. Also I'm not sure if you'd be able to find anyone to insure you for a venture like this.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Thanks for the feedback, yes, that's something that worries me. But I'll have to do some research to be sure.

I'd think it would be more like a combination of rental car/dealership/business insurance on top of personal liability of each driver. And though it might suck, some sort of GPS tracker in each car to make sure people aren't driving like idiots, maybe. And of course pre-screening of members to make sure their driving records are good.

I mean, does a rental company get sued when one of their cars kills somebody? Isn't it the driver that gets sued?

 

[Akwaaba]

Sounds a wonderful idea, and if I was in USA something I would look into joining.

When I was in UK, I managed to buy and sell 3 cars a year (for a few years) - to go through a list of interesting cars to own and drive. Managed 3 TVRs, a Porsche, 2 Mercedes, 2 MGs, 2 Land Rovers, Audi TT, Alfa V6 etc. I enjoyed the buying and selling process, tried to recycle the money so that it didn't cost too much.

Whilst your idea is good, sounds similar to the P1 international car club, that concentrate on supercars. However, you would be in competition with car hire businesses and driving experience events.

There are a few businesses in UK that offer classic car hire, the cars aren't cheap to hire, even for a weekend. There are also car experience days. I've done a Jeep one (free promotional event by Jeep) and a couple Supercars events (which were around GBP100 - I think)

As I'm sure you are aware, costs are everything. Do not underestimate the running and repair costs of these cars. The reason these cars are cheap is that the repair costs of anything major is uneconomic. But your customers may expect the cars to be in perfect condition. Some people will then drive them like they've stolen them. You won't forget that the depreciation of the cars will be quite large - for the popular cars with high mileages.

I wouldn't try to start with half a million, I'd dip my toe in the water with a much smaller amount of capital. Maybe get a couple of friends and buy one of the cars on the list. Get other friends interested in joining the scheme and building that way.

You may feel that it'll be better to focus on one marque - building expertise in the running and repair of these. Buying cheap non-runners to help supply spares to keep the rest of the fleet on the road.

Good luck
I hope you keep posting of how things are going

 

[jeffgoddin]

Thanks, that was exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for! I wonder what kind of insurance driving experience events have, I'll have to look into that.

And starting small will have to be the way, you're right, of course. Think of the proposal as an eventual goal. I do want it to be a membership club with shared ownership, rather than a private business which hires cars or which offers driving experience events. Hopefully this will keep down the degree to which the cars are driven like they're stolen. Finding an initial small group of members who each put in like $1000, maybe 20-40 guys as a minimum threshold before we begin buying cars, and then with that money in the bank shopping around for a couple Angel investors to match us, and getting to $60-$100k to start, something like that is what I'm thinking. Enough to get 10 cars and lease a garage/warehouse. Maybe that's still not the starting point, but as you say just a few friends and one car. But for the point of starting a business I can't think of it being any smaller than that.

And focusing on one marque makes a lot of sense, but misses the point of the club entirely for me, which is to be able to experience a wide variety of cars, as you have done. But something in the middle, rather than having one example of 100 different cars, perhaps having 2-3 of a few different cars to begin, and then eventually 4-6 of the most popular cars and 1-2 of the rest would help us to be more efficient.

If all goes well, I hope to have enough figured out to begin recruiting sometime this spring...