Car rolling

[kanariya]

Hi everyone.

Sorry I did a search but didn't find the answer for my question.


I have limited knowledge on cars thus I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like this.

Normally when you take your foot off the brake in a AT car, the car would start rolling. Cars in GT don't do that. Cars in GT won't move unless you step on the gas. I know there's a reason it behaves like this but I can't figure it out.

Thanks for the input.

 

[clacksman]

Cars in GT5P and GT4 do roll in gear without pressing the throttle, if they are automatic transmission cars.

edit: Try the SL55 AMG Mercedes and the Nissan GT-R R35

 

[SteveO1965]

Hi everyone.

Sorry I did a search but didn't find the answer for my question.


I have limited knowledge on cars thus I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like this.

Normally when you take your foot off the brake in a AT car, the car would start rolling. Cars in GT don't do that. Cars in GT won't move unless you step on the gas. I know there's a reason it behaves like this but I can't figure it out.

Thanks for the input.

After a standing start the car will roll without touching the acellerator.

 

[supersonic-88]

After a standing start the car will roll without touching the acellerator.

Yep, it doesn't matter whether you're driving auto or manual, the car will roll slowly, even without touching the accelerator.

This becomes a problem if you've decided to park your car & not race anymore, as the car will keep rolling/moving, even if you have it up against a wall. The only way to stop this is by pressing the pause button.

 

[kanariya]

Thanks for the input.

I'll try it again.

 

[yossigab]

You need to distinguish between "Automatic Transmission" & "Automatic Gear Box" - there is a huge difference !!!

"Automatic Gear Box": In real life, having a car-computer changing gears, but the gear box is mechanicals is different than manual gear box. The automatic gear box doesn't contains a clutch but instead it has some kind of an oil-box which acts like a "clutch" - to transfer the engine power to the wheels. This is why when the car is standing still with no brakes pressed then the car might move slowly forward.

"Automatic Transmission": In games (PC/PS3 and others) - since most people don't have a gear box device connected to their PC/PS3 or can't manage shifting gears while driving (like crazy through corners...) the game developers came out with a solution to help the player/driver - this is "Automatic Transmission" - the game decides when to shift gears up & down depends on speed, and letting the players/driver to concentrate on the wheel/break-gas manipulation. In this method the clutch simulation is the game will be like manual-gear box with a clutch.

By the way - just recently some company cars (like Toyota Corolla 2008/2009 - which I own, Toyota Yaris 2007, some VW - can't remember the model) implemented what is called "robotic gear box" - this gear box is very similar to the in-game "automatic transmission" since this box has REAL clutch but the car-computer is pressing the clutch to change gears.

The GT5P (and previous GT games, like any other car-racing game) are implementing the "Automatic Transmission", but in GT specifically, the developers decided (for an unknown reason to me) that if the car is in "idle" an no brakes is pressed then it should roll forward.

Hope this help you some...

 

[beer-2k]

Yep, it doesn't matter whether you're driving auto or manual, the car will roll slowly, even without touching the accelerator.

This becomes a problem if you've decided to park your car & not race anymore, as the car will keep rolling/moving, even if you have it up against a wall. The only way to stop this is by pressing the pause button.

or you can pull the e-brake (*goes and tape the circle button down)

 

[boiltheocean]

This becomes a problem if you've decided to park your car & not race anymore, as the car will keep rolling/moving, even if you have it up against a wall. The only way to stop this is by pressing the pause button.

If you've decided not to race anymore then pressing the pause button shouldn't be a problem should it?

 

[EERS4YEARS]

yossigab's post is fairly correct I think. The AT in GT are nothing like a real life AT. The AT in the game will let the rev's stay high for a long time, but IRL the car would really just shift to top gear and bring the rev's down alot lower than they would be in the game.

 

[Wolfe]

To clarify what yossigab is getting at...

An Automatic Transmission (what yossigab referred to as an "automatic gear box") uses a viscous torque converter rather than a clutch to transfer torque from the flywheel to the transmission. Two vanes on either end of a fluid coupling -- one for the engine, the other for the transmission -- are not connected, but spin together. If one side spins faster than the other, the thick fluid forces the other vane to spin at the same speed. This is how automatics "slip." The gear ratios are then determined by a complicated planetary gearset.

What I would call "Automatic Shifting" (what yossigab referred to as "Automatic Transmission") is when a game gives you the option of automatic shifting, but the car behaves like it has a standard manual transmission. As far as I know, Gran Turismo does only this, except for maybe certain cars that are only available as automatics (the Skyline GT-8 in GT4?).

The "robotic gear box" yossigab mentioned would be a Sequential Manual Transmission, which is a standard manual transmission (or a special dual-clutch design like Volkswagen's DSG) with computer-controlled clutchwork and shifting. Even if it offers an automatic mode, it is not an automatic because it does not have a planetary gearset nor a torque converter.

@yossigab: "Transmission" and "gearbox" mean the same thing.

 

[Coxis]

The GT by Citroen is restricted to Automatic only in GT5P.

 

[supersonic-88]

If you've decided not to race anymore then pressing the pause button shouldn't be a problem should it?

I wasn't saying pressing the pause button was a problem. I was saying that the car will continue to roll 'unless' you press pause or of course hold the brakes on. Once you've been playing long enough you know this but for the new drivers, they may just park the car up against a wall for example, walk off, then come back & see the car has moved somewhere else on the track.

 

[blkvzgo]

Choosing "Automatic" or "Manual" in the game menu doesn't have anything to do with the type of transmission the car has, it only means who does the gearchanges - the game or the player. So even if you choose "Manual" in the SL55 for example, that won't put a manual transmission in the car, it will just mean the manual mode of the automatic transmission. But even if you choose "Automatic", the transmission will still stay in the manual mode, the only difference being that the game will do the changes for you - up when you hit the limiter, down when the revs get too low. Thats why it doesn't go to a higher gear when you're cruising, because basically the gearbox is still in manual mode. As you see there's nothing wrong with the auto boxes in GT5P, it just doesn't simulate the automatic mode of the automatic boxes, 'cause it doesn't need to.
As for the car "rolling", in cars with auto transmissions it's because the car moves forward (or back, if R is selected) when you release the brakes, that's normal. As for the manual-equipped cars, when you come to a stop the clutch is depressed (otherwise the car would stall), thus allowing the car to roll if the surface is not flat. By the way here's how you can tell when the clutch is depressed. Choose a manual-equipped car, go into cockpit view and stop the car. You can see the number "1" representing the gear is dark. The clutch is depressed. Now apply some gas until the car reaches about 10km/h and you should see the number "1" become bright. The clutch is now released, and 1st gear is engaged.
Hope this helped someone, because it was awfully difficult to type on my mobile phone.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Perfectly explained and it was exactly the same in GT4.

 

[Cocomoto]

Well, not saying about AT cars in real life, but all cars in general.

When you stop a car in real life, you'll have to step on the clutch, if you're on a surface who has some elavation, the car will move (if you don't pull the e-brake or step on the brakes), it's the same on GT5, but a little exagerated.
The tyres in GT5 at low speeds have a very low grip, and this flaw on the tyres physics make the car roll until the end of time.

I think that is the reason why the car roll, AT or manual gear box there is nothing with, it's only the game “simulating” the clutch pushed.
I don't know if it make sense to you all, but for me, it does. u.u

 

[mafia_boy]

clacksman is right, if you use the GT-R concept (and I'm talking GT4 here) you don't need to mash the button to accelerate because it already has part throttle permanently on when it's at idle.

When you hold the park brake, then there's no throttle application whatsoever. If you hit the nitrous button, it also affects the level of the throttle position but doesn't take away all the throttle.

 

[clacksman]

If you're going to talk GT4, also add the Prius and the Jaguar sedan to the list of automatic transmission cars that will creep at 0% throttle, just as in real life. There's a couple of little-bitty cars that do this too, the ones with CVT gearboxes in real life. I think the Fit/Jazz is one, can't remember.

 

[santiagomo87]

blkvzgo explained it perfectly, why are people still arguing about elevation changes and stuff??

I remember when I drove the last generation M3 with SMT it surprised me that it didn't move when I released the brake pedal, I thought it was pretty awesome, do any of you know of another car like this?

 

[blkvzgo]

It probably depends on the engine and transmission programming. When you release the brake it can either keep the clutch disengaged or automatically apply some throttle to engage 1st gear.

 

[yossigab]

To clarify what yossigab is getting at...

An Automatic Transmission (what yossigab referred to as an "automatic gear box") uses a viscous torque converter rather than a clutch to transfer torque from the flywheel to the transmission. Two vanes on either end of a fluid coupling -- one for the engine, the other for the transmission -- are not connected, but spin together. If one side spins faster than the other, the thick fluid forces the other vane to spin at the same speed. This is how automatics "slip." The gear ratios are then determined by a complicated planetary gearset.

What I would call "Automatic Shifting" (what yossigab referred to as "Automatic Transmission") is when a game gives you the option of automatic shifting, but the car behaves like it has a standard manual transmission. As far as I know, Gran Turismo does only this, except for maybe certain cars that are only available as automatics (the Skyline GT-8 in GT4?).

The "robotic gear box" yossigab mentioned would be a Sequential Manual Transmission, which is a standard manual transmission (or a special dual-clutch design like Volkswagen's DSG) with computer-controlled clutchwork and shifting. Even if it offers an automatic mode, it is not an automatic because it does not have a planetary gearset nor a torque converter.

@yossigab: "Transmission" and "gearbox" mean the same thing.

Wolfe - thanks for the clarification. I am not a native english speaker so it was a bit hard for me to explain all this technical stuff...
You are right in most of the stuff, but I think that you got it wrong with the SMT definition.
As far a I know, an SMT is a car with gear box like in race-car or motorcycles. And what I refer to a "robotic" (this is how it called in my country) is that the mechanical stuff is exactly the same as in manual transmission (regular gear-box, regular clutch) but instead of a the driver to press the clutch and move the H shifter to a different gear then there is the computer and kind of a "robot-hand" (hence the "robotic" term) that is doing this internally.
I currently own a Toyota Corolla 2008 (European model) which has this kind of gear-box. In this car I can set an automatic mode in which the computer is changing gears or a manual mode in which I need to press (+) or (-) for gear change. When I'm changing the gear the car is pressing the clutch by itself (I actually feel the clutch press/depressed by the car forces forward and backwards) and then changing the gear to what I've asked.