Chassis Stiffening...

[wmwolverines]

Does it cause understeer? How much? Any other effects?

Search didn't come up with much on this. Hate to spend 20k on a car I have 400k into and find that I permanently ruined the cars handling on something I can't undo...

 

[reggie84]

Shouldnt create understeer... if anything it should improve handling... less body movement.
thats the reason why they put strut braces and the like on cars.

 

[BPskeet69]

I did this to my first 160 cars, they all had understeer, re purchased some WITHOUT the reinforcementd, and they drive beautifully.

 

[scca_ziptie]

Does it cause understeer? How much? Any other effects?

Search didn't come up with much on this. Hate to spend 20k on a car I have 400k into and find that I permanently ruined the cars handling on something I can't undo...

I have not enjoyed this modification to ANY car that I have in the garage. Absolutely generates understeer - I would personally recommend purchasing the upgrade on a "cheaper" vehicle that you have not made any other modifications to. It should be a very clear change and if you like it - continue with other vehicles as it may be a personal preference kind of thing. I did it to my Enzo (back when the game was NEW) and was very upset, ended up buying another as it is not removable once installed. 👎

 

[Villain]

Does it cause understeer? How much? Any other effects?

Search didn't come up with much on this. Hate to spend 20k on a car I have 400k into and find that I permanently ruined the cars handling on something I can't undo...

If the car is worth less than 1MM credits, dupe it to yourself and see if you like the difference in handling. You could have them both (one with and one without) in your garage at the same time and hotlap them on the same track, comparing times.

PS - if you do this, let us know how it turned out.

 

[scca_ziptie]

If the car is worth less than 1MM credits, dupe it to yourself and see if you like the difference in handling. You could have them both (one with and one without) in your garage at the same time and hotlap them on the same track, comparing times.

PS - if you do this, let us know how it turned out.

I did this with the Enzo - I do not have the "exact" times around anymore but at the time I was using a G27 and lapping Laguna Seca: I personally lost right around .6 of a second with the "upgrade" installed, faster without it. Neither car had any damage and had only been driven around Laguna.

I should also mention that I can put in some consistent laps, so it wasn't a hit or miss scenario..... But that is again just a personal outcome, it may suit another driving style better... or worse. I'm curious to see what your results are.

 

[play2win_88]

I recently did it on a BMW M3 csl and find the car gets a bit skittish over bumps now. However when on a smooth track like Fuji speedway it feels like the car turns quicker into the corners and can produce a faster lap overall.
It must works better on production cars, which really need the higher rigidity.

 

[danvodka]

I guess it is useful on cars with a very high mileage, like 200.000 miles. Restoring the rigidity in GT Auto will only last a few laps, then the car would need another chassis rebuilt. By buying the chassis reinforcement (in the tuning option) these old cars will last longer without the need of GT Auto's rebuilt... Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[shylock_se2]

My technical knowledge isn't great but my understanding is that the upgrade stiffens the chassis which stops the car flexing. this flexing would of absorbed some of the pressure acting on the car from turning, now this pressure is not absorbed it puts more pressure on the moveable parts (tires and suspension) which will cause them to break traction.

This is a similar effect to stiffer springs, if you stiffen the front springs it will understeer more at the front but give the rear more oversteer and vice versa.

These mods make the performance window smaller and but more effective, making the cars harder to drive but more effective in the right hands, this is why alot of supercars have carbon tubs to make the car as rigid as possible.

Try softening the suspension and anti roll bars to put some roll back into the car.

I await that post to be explained in better way.....

 

[ElSecundo]

My technical knowledge isn't great but my understanding is that the upgrade stiffens the chassis which stops the car flexing. this flexing would of absorbed some of the pressure acting on the car from turning, now this pressure is not absorbed it puts more pressure on the moveable parts (tires and suspension) which will cause them to break traction.

This is a similar effect to stiffer springs, if you stiffen the front springs it will understeer more at the front but give the rear more oversteer and vice versa.

These mods make the performance window smaller and but more effective, making the cars harder to drive but more effective in the right hands, this is why alot of supercars have carbon tubs to make the car as rigid as possible.

Try softening the suspension and anti roll bars to put some roll back into the car.

I await that post to be explained in better way.....

I think you're basically on target here. All chassis have some flex to them, and when they flex, they store energy like a spring. When that 'spring' unloads, you get unpredictable results. So, instead of using the suspension (a tunable and precise tool) to absorb bumps and plant the tires on the road, the loose chassis (a vague and imprecise tool) is being used to absorb the bumps.


To counter that 'play' in the chassis, you have to tighten the suspension, and you lose the suspension's ability to adjust for the road conditions. By stiffening the chassis, you're putting the handling in the hands of the suspension.

If you don't know what you're doing with suspension settings, or you're not using an upgraded suspension that you can tweak, you'll probably see performance degrade when you use the chassis reinforcement without doing some additional tuning.

That theory seems to match what I've seen so far, but it would be interesting to hear other peoples' experiences with it.

 

[nissman]

With Super GT cars the handling improves a lot almost second a lap on some tracks. So you cant go wrong.

With street cars I dunno, havent tested yet.

 

[crowhop]

With Super GT cars the handling improves a lot almost second a lap on some tracks. So you cant go wrong.

With street cars I dunno, havent tested yet.

I've done testing of this and I can say this isn't true for me. The lap times are nearly identical and consistent.

I ran three tests using the WOODONE GT-R at the 10 lap A-Spec Suzuka Super GT race in perfect conditions.
I purchased three WOODONE's from the NCD, washed them and changed the oil.
The HP was 503 and PP was 597 after setting the Aero to MAX. No other changes were made (used stock suspension and LSD settings).

For the first one I added the Chassis Reinforcement and ran the race. I threw out the first lap and then threw out the best and worst lap times. A total of 7 lap times were collected.

For the second car, I did not add the Chassis Reinforcement and repeated the race. I threw out the first lap and then threw out the best and worst lap times.

For the third car I added the Chassis Reinforcement and did the same thing.

The lap times for the first test were 2 seconds higher on average than the 2nd and 3rd tests. This was because I was learning to drive the car/track.
But the 2nd and 3rd test were very, very close and I think, given my new-found experience with Suzuka and the WOODONE, I could get a touch faster every time I did the test, regardless of the Chassis Reinforcement.


Logically, the Chassis Reinforcement (or Body Rigidity Improvement as it is called in the game manual) shouldn't be needed on race cars unless you increase the HP or lighten the weight. Racers should already have their own reinforcement.
As for street cars, they "need" the Chassis Reinforcement most of the time. As they were sold, they weren't meant for racing. The exceptions could be cars like the Ferrari Enzo, which is made to be extremely fast, but I think if you increase the HP or lighten it, it would "need" it as well.
I put need in quotes because individual results may vary. I am only speaking in terms of real-world logic relative to turning a street car into a track car.

 

[crowhop]

Amazing to me there is very, very little discussion about this topic that I can find. If someone knows of another thread where this is discussed, please let me know.

 

[4everstock]

my 2cent.....
the absolute noticeable difference is with the X2010.....I was grinding (before big payouts) the X2010 in "Like the Wind", it started getting a little wobbly after a corner when about to straighten up, I did the "reinforcement" and the car started to handle a lot better .......noticably better
What happens with "normal" cars, is that as the car is used more, it starts to flex more and more at a very slow rate, so it is barely noticed, you just adjust your driving along the way, when you do a "ch. reinforcement" it is a sudden change back to/ or better than original, this now as a big change to what you have grown accustomed to in your "flexing" car....and the car seems messed up........but it really was a messed up car that you tuned to your perfection and were driving well before

 

[oopssorryy]

I've always found that chassis reinforcement tends to magnify the suspension settings, making each change mean more to the tune. This is because (I think anyways) the chassis is much firmer and better connected to the suspension. The body is absorbing less of the forces or racing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I too think it pushes a car towards understeer. My philosophy is if I can tune without it I do, it's only a last resort to help with hard to tune out oversteer. Can't say I've added it to a car in 3 months and my lap times are more than competitive. I should do a side by side comparison in some GT500's because if it is a full second, which I highly doubt by the way, then that's huge.

 

[crowhop]

my 2cent.....
the absolute noticeable difference is with the X2010.....I was grinding (before big payouts) the X2010 in "Like the Wind", it started getting a little wobbly after a corner when about to straighten up, I did the "reinforcement" and the car started to handle a lot better .......noticably better
What happens with "normal" cars, is that as the car is used more, it starts to flex more and more at a very slow rate, so it is barely noticed, you just adjust your driving along the way, when you do a "ch. reinforcement" it is a sudden change back to/ or better than original, this now as a big change to what you have grown accustomed to in your "flexing" car....and the car seems messed up........but it really was a messed up car that you tuned to your perfection and were driving well before

This reads as if you are talking about the Chassis Maintenance (Restore Chassis Rigidity) in GT Auto.

I've never experienced a drastic positive or negative difference when purchasing the 20,000 Credit Chassis Reinforcement from the Tuning Shop for a race car.
I can feel the difference with a street car though.

 

[CNSpots1]

I have had no problems with the chassis reinforcement. honestly, if you experience understeer just change the suspension tuning a bit. my Mark IV race car(and several street cars) has the chassis reinforcement and it is still a crazy oversteering monster.

It makes the chassis more rigid, and therefor the optimal suspension settings differ from before-hand. if you have a car that was tuned BEFORE you stiffened the chassis OF COURSE its going to need some adjustments.

 

[4everstock]

This reads as if you are talking about the Chassis Maintenance (Restore Chassis Rigidity) in GT Auto.

I've never experienced a drastic positive or negative difference when purchasing the 20,000 Credit Chassis Reinforcement from the Tuning Shop for a race car.
I can feel the difference with a street car though.

my bad, that's true.....I was really referring to "restore Chassis Rigidity" .....sorry

 

[gthead01]

Never had good result from it. I stopped installing it on my cars months ago. I may go back and play around to see if I can sniff out some benefit, but for now, I do fine without it.

 

[Vegard]

It's always a good thing to stiffen the chassis.
Some cars needs adjustments after performing this upgrade though.
The problems people are having after installing this is caused mostly by suspension settings that are no longer optimal after stiffening the chassis.
The suspension tune is a very delicate thing. Change one of the most critical parameters of a car (chassis rigidity) and the rest of the settings will need adjustments accordingly.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's always a good thing to stiffen the chassis.
Some cars needs adjustments after performing this upgrade though.
The problems people are having after installing this is caused mostly by suspension settings that are no longer optimal after stiffening the chassis.
The suspension tune is a very delicate thing. Change one of the most critical parameters of a car (chassis rigidity) and the rest of the settings will need adjustments accordingly.

I've seen people say this before and I've asked this question before without response, but what changes do you make? Not generally but specific. Springs, ride height, dampers, ARB's, toe, camber...etc.?

 

[mrkevans]

Does it cause understeer? How much? Any other effects?

Search didn't come up with much on this. Hate to spend 20k on a car I have 400k into and find that I permanently ruined the cars handling on something I can't undo...

It causes understeer on 4wd cars but is a must have on rwd cars as it helps combat oversteer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It causes understeer on 4wd cars but is a must have on rwd cars as it helps combat oversteer.

Tuning out oversteer is relatively easy on Rwd cars without having to chassis stiffen. Does it make the car any faster is the real question.

 

[hawkeye122]

I fully tuned a Corvette ZO6 (Non-RM) and I found that with Full aero and stock settings on the fully customizable suspension made it handle really nice... It felt secure at Monza and Suzuka.

 

[oopssorryy]

Tuning out oversteer is relatively easy on Rwd cars without having to chassis stiffen. Does it make the car any faster is the real question.

If my logic is right it won't make your car faster, but will increase the effect of your Spring Rates, Damper settings, and ARB setting. It won't expand their range at all, but it will allow for more effective use of the three. Were as before it might have taken large amounts of adjustment for your springs, it will now take less to do the same thing. It'll (in my mind) have more of an effect on your Damper settings as you have a very limited adjustment range, and your ARB will take the biggest hit as a setting of one (before) now becomes more like two. It shouldn't really have an effect Ride Height, Camber, and Toe as (yet again IMO) they are the stats that are the least connected to the stiffness of the chassis.

 

[Green]

I've done testing of this and I can say this isn't true for me. The lap times are nearly identical and consistent.

I ran three tests using the WOODONE GT-R at the 10 lap A-Spec Suzuka Super GT race in perfect conditions.
I purchased three WOODONE's from the NCD, washed them and changed the oil.
The HP was 503 and PP was 597 after setting the Aero to MAX. No other changes were made (used stock suspension and LSD settings).

For the first one I added the Chassis Reinforcement and ran the race. I threw out the first lap and then threw out the best and worst lap times. A total of 7 lap times were collected.

For the second car, I did not add the Chassis Reinforcement and repeated the race. I threw out the first lap and then threw out the best and worst lap times.

For the third car I added the Chassis Reinforcement and did the same thing.

The lap times for the first test were 2 seconds higher on average than the 2nd and 3rd tests. This was because I was learning to drive the car/track.
But the 2nd and 3rd test were very, very close and I think, given my new-found experience with Suzuka and the WOODONE, I could get a touch faster every time I did the test, regardless of the Chassis Reinforcement.


Logically, the Chassis Reinforcement (or Body Rigidity Improvement as it is called in the game manual) shouldn't be needed on race cars unless you increase the HP or lighten the weight. Racers should already have their own reinforcement.
As for street cars, they "need" the Chassis Reinforcement most of the time. As they were sold, they weren't meant for racing. The exceptions could be cars like the Ferrari Enzo, which is made to be extremely fast, but I think if you increase the HP or lighten it, it would "need" it as well.
I put need in quotes because individual results may vary. I am only speaking in terms of real-world logic relative to turning a street car into a track car.

I enjoyed reading your results from using Chassis Reinforcement as I don't really use it at all, never really thought it would help. Although I may test it out on a few cars now and see what happens.

Personally I wouldn't use stock setup to test this as I believe the Chassis Reinforcement will affect the setup and depending on the track/car could make it faster or slower. If you tuned the cars suspension to get maxium performance out of both with and without Chassis Reinforcement, I think it would give clearer results on the benifits and flaws of Chassis Reinforcement.

I would still be suprised if there was a massive difference between them but that will most likely depend on the car,driver and the track.

 

[Camaroyenko]

I hardly ever do it. I only do it on cars that will get driven long distances.

 

[kennylmao]

Okay I tried to find out what is the benefit of this chassis reinforcement and I did this.
Bought a brand new Corvette ZR1 and added full aerokit, an oil change, racing softs, carbon driveshaft, best flywheel, best clutch, and full weight reduction without chassis reinforcement.
I took it to eifel circuit in the supercar seasonals and recorded the time and speed at which I took a turn in my head.
Then I took the car and did the chassis reinforcement and had another go at the same race.
Results are I find that my car can take a corner at a higher speed and can produce better lap times with chassis reinforcement.

Just my 2cents with my crude science experiment skills I adapted froom school.

 

[Vegard]

I've seen people say this before and I've asked this question before without response, but what changes do you make? Not generally but specific. Springs, ride height, dampers, ARB's, toe, camber...etc.?

There is no one specific answer to cover 1030 cars. Testing and adjusting is the only way to find out.