cheater in nation fia time attack

[Gtsport28]

the support of the wall of the first turn to Tokyo to the air slide like clockwork! )

 

[talhaONE]

You get penalty for doing that.

 

[kub_man]

You get penalty for doing that.

Gain of that bigger than penalty.

 

[Pigems]

The lap doesn’t count once you get a penalty though.

 

[Riptide]

Cheating in gaming will always be there and as sad as it is, GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for. So if you get away with a corner cut, a brake check or wall riding without a penalty its not cheating. Sad, but fact.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for. ...

Just out of curiosity : Can you provide the source 👍 ?
Sounds great and soothes me. I'm feeling much better now that I know every cheat gets penalized in GTS ... or in other words THE GAME IS PERFECTLY DETECTING CHEATS !

 

[breeminator]

Cheating in gaming will always be there and as sad as it is, GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for. So if you get away with a corner cut, a brake check or wall riding without a penalty its not cheating. Sad, but fact.

The reason why people describe it as cheating is because there is a clause in the PSN rules about unintended game mechanics, so the reasoning is that they believe it is an unintended game mechanic that you can go faster in this way, and therefore the people who do it are breaking that clause in the PSN rules, which makes it cheating.

 

[Riptide]

Just out of curiosity : Can you provide the source 👍 ?
Sounds great and soothes me. I'm feeling much better now that I know every cheat gets penalized in GTS ... or in other words THE GAME IS PERFECTLY DETECTING CHEATS !

I think you misread or misunderstood what I've said. Try again.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I think you misread or misunderstood what I've said. Try again.

No, I don't think I've misread you. I've possibly been a bit too sarcastic though ...
I just wanted to know where "GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for." is put down. Or is it your opinion ?

 

[Winnie847]

I saw this same thing in a replay of the top Nissan GTR in last week's FIA MFG time trial in EMEA region. It was a Swedish player known by many. He was clipping the wall just barely at the braking zone of MANY of the turns, not just one or two. This allowed him to brake a little later and use the wall to assist in deceleration. He was grazing the wall just slightly enough to avoid a penalty. At first I thought it was accidental, but there's no way a time that fast could contain such a mistake at every high speed turn.

 

[suprajef]

I saw this same thing in a replay of the top Nissan GTR in last week's FIA MFG time trial in EMEA region. It was a Swedish player known by many. He was clipping the wall just barely at the braking zone of MANY of the turns, not just one or two. This allowed him to brake a little later and use the wall to assist in deceleration. He was grazing the wall just slightly enough to avoid a penalty. At first I thought it was accidental, but there's no way a time that fast could contain such a mistake at every high speed turn.

He is not the only one, there is a guy in the US that does this and is proud of it.

 

[Winnie847]

He is not the only one, there is a guy in the US that does this and is proud of it.

something tells me I know the guy

 

[suprajef]

something tells me I know the guy

You probably do. He shows up at Tokyo and just posted a video of him using a wall in the latest tt

I've called him out before...

 

[bil coz]

Just out of curiosity : Can you provide the source 👍 ?
Sounds great and soothes me. I'm feeling much better now that I know every cheat gets penalized in GTS ... or in other words THE GAME IS PERFECTLY DETECTING CHEATS !

All cats die
Socrates is dead
Therefore Socrates is a cat.

 

[gtpierre]

No, I don't think I've misread you. I've possibly been a bit too sarcastic though ...
I just wanted to know where "GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for." is put down. Or is it your opinion ?

yes you misunderstood what he meant by "implication"

PD never deletes, or ban accounts of "cheaters", they just reset the timeboards. If the game was just failing to detect a cheat, then this would be corrected, and people who previously used said cheat would be punished a posteriori.
The reporting system is a placebo.
PD has let "bad moves" happen in top 16 races and in official events without sanctionning them.
PD barely corrects their penalty system even though everyone knows : 1- it does not detect cheating correctly 2-it detects incorrectly cheating (false positive, penalty to the wrong person etc...) 3- cheaters take advantage of the penalty system more than they are penalized by it.

these facts would imply that PD thinks "GTS penalty system detects correctly cheats , and that everything you can do without getting a penalty is not cheating".

In reality, I think they are just unable/too lazy/not willing to find a solution, and very much like politicians, instead of admitting there is a problem they won't fix, they just say "everything works fine".

 

[bil coz]

yes you misunderstood what he meant by "implication"

PD never deletes, or ban accounts of "cheaters", they just reset the timeboards. If the game was just failing to detect a cheat, then this would be corrected, and people who previously used said cheat would be punished a posteriori.
The reporting system is a placebo.
PD has let "bad moves" happen in top 16 races and in official events without sanctionning them.
PD barely corrects their penalty system even though everyone knows : 1- it does not detect cheating correctly 2-it detects incorrectly cheating (false positive, penalty to the wrong person etc...) 3- cheaters take advantage of the penalty system more than they are penalized by it.

these facts would imply that PD thinks "GTS penalty system detects correctly cheats , and that everything you can do without getting a penalty is not cheating".

In reality, I think they are just unable/too lazy/not willing to find a solution, and very much like politicians, instead of admitting there is a problem they won't fix, they just say "everything works fine".

or he meant that ultimately it's just a game with some limitations inherent to it, and that gamers will game.
That politicians bit though.

 

[breeminator]

PD has let "bad moves" happen in top 16 races and in official events without sanctionning them.
<snip>
these facts would imply that PD thinks "GTS penalty system detects correctly cheats , and that everything you can do without getting a penalty is not cheating".

Just because bad moves have sometimes not resulted in a sanction doesn't imply they think "everything you can do without getting a penalty is not cheating". If they never sanctioned people for things that aren't punished in game, you'd have a fair point, but players have on some occasions been banned or sanctioned in other ways for doing things that aren't penalised by the game. There was some bad behaviour in a fairly recent EMEA top split FIA race, and I heard that the player in question had their console banned from taking part in Sport mode. I can't be certain that is true, but I haven't seen that player in any races since.

 

[BaareCZ]

There was some bad behaviour in a fairly recent EMEA top split FIA race, and I heard that the player in question had their console banned from taking part in Sport mode. I can't be certain that is true, but I haven't seen that player in any races since.

Yeah, I've watched Kie's stream and what he was doing in that race was just absurd. He has always been a little "reckless" according to Kie. Well, I call it dirty so I hope he got banned for real and for good. You just can't have things like this happening in top split races. They're the best of the best so I think they should be setting an example for the rest of us.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Ok guys, I probably should apologize for not being all clear in my post.
First of all, I did not question anything you ( @Riptide ) wrote - and we all are on the same side for sure.

All cats die
Socrates is dead
Therefore Socrates is a cat.

This exactly is the kind of logic I was reminded of. Another example could be this :
Paragraph 1 - I'm always right !
Paragraph 2 - If I'm wrong, Paragraph 1 comes into effect !

The fact that "... any act that the game penalizes you for ..." is in italics made me assume it's part of some official UP or similar that I'm not aware of or forgot about. That's why I asked for the source.
To be honest I was kind of amused and disbelieving at the same time if PD actually used such weird and cheap logic since everyone is aware ( and PD should know best ) this is way off reality.

If my brain does cheat me, help me along, you're welcome 👍 !

 

[watto79]

Now that I've watched it I understand the problem, a 1.5s penalty that is offset by the time gained wall riding turn 1 and the fact that the penalty is served just before a braking zone.

In addition to what @breeminator has said I'm sure I've seen in the past that getting a penalty for the same corner cut/wall ride results in an increased penalty each time you do it. So the first time it's 1.5s, the second time it's 3s, the third time 5s etc. I might be wrong on that but if anyone is considering doing this in the race they may get tougher penalties than they expect.

It's also a problem that would be easily solved if they put the penalty zone on the other side of the hairpin where it should be, where penalties have a much more dramatic effect on lap time!

 

[Riptide]

First of all, English is my 3rd language, so my apologies if I've expressed myself in a grey manner, its all on me.

Secondly, my earlier statement does not reflect anyone's view except my own and is my own conclusion inferred from the end result/observation or implication of what happens in GTS [and some other racing games].

Thirdly, I do not promote game cheating in any way, as a matter of fact I'm a keen activist against it. The problem for me and those that think alike to accuse someone of cheating is that an act of cheating can only be defined as cheating if its against some official rule prohibiting that act or in the absence of an official rule, where the game penalizes you.

GTS however has only penalties to express what is not allowed and that is so inconsistently applied that no one [well at least not me] can make any sense of it. In the latest World Tour I've seen more than one incident where a driver had 4 wheels outside the white line or bumping someone off the track with no penalty by the game or the stewards. So who am I now to tell a person he's cheating if he does the same. Personally I believe any corner cutting [4 wheels outside white line] is cheating, but that's only my view which cannot count as a measurement for what is cheating in GTS and what is not. So if the game does not penalize you consistently and there's no clear rule against it, how does one determine or by whose measurement does one decide that its cheating. In view of this my earlier statement that, as sad as it is, GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for. If this then sounds as "weird and cheap logic", I stand to be guided on how to define GTS cheating, but do explain the authority thereof.

PSN provides only a very grey guideline by stating in the rules of conduct that "You may not cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage". So what is their definition of "cheating" or the so called unintentional game mechanics. No one can really say for a fact that he knows and we all can only attach our own view or interpretation to it or base it on past precedent.

Once again, this is certainly not a matter of defending cheaters or to justify what they do, but much rather a plea or wish for GTS to bring some consistency.

 

[pedrocor]

Cheating in gaming will always be there and as sad as it is, GTS by implication defines cheating as any act that the game penalizes you for. So if you get away with a corner cut, a brake check or wall riding without a penalty its not cheating. Sad, but fact.

I guess I understood the concept of cheating wrong my whole life... I always tought the cornerstone of cheating was to benefit of something or take some kind of advantage by not so ethical or legal ways without getting caught!!!

 

[Winnie847]

It doesn't really matter what you call it. The point is that it's not an honorable way to win.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Here are my thoughts on the issue

Sorry I didn't type this out but it ended up being a 19 minute video so that probably would have equaled well over 1000 words. To sum it up there is compelling examples on both sides of the argument, to to be the most unbiased, I am indifferent on the issue.
Therefore I will do whatever the majority of the community thinks is best in the future whether it is continue like before and go for the best unpenalized time possible, stop doing the exploit entirely or use it depending on the situation.
Just please, no matter what side you're on, do not bash the other. Make your side more popular but try not to lessen the other. Ultimately I will do whatever the majority of the community wants.

 

[breeminator]

It occurred to me that this wallriding is analogous to a so-called professional foul in football (soccer). In committing a professional foul, the player is assessing that the penalty costs less than not committing the foul, i.e. they exchange an almost certain goal for being sent off and having the possibility of the penalty not resulting in a goal.

The wallriding is the same - there is a penalty, but the player assesses that overall, it's a net gain.

So I searched to see if there is any established thinking on whether players who commit professional fouls are cheats. I found that there seems to be no consensus on that either, with many people on both sides of the argument.