Citroen GT into production

[Leonidae]

Sauce Autoblog

Citroen has decided to put the GT supercar concept into limited production, according to senior inside sources.

The project was believed to have been given the green light last week by the company’s product boss Vincent Besson.

However, only six Citroen GTs will be made, all with a price tag believed to be around £1.1 million pounds.

Designed by Takumi Yamamoto, the concept was originally built to tie in with the Gran Turismo 5 Playstation game.

However a senior Citroen source said that most of the concept’s features should make the final production version, including the carbon-fibre construction and eccentric interior details such as the copper trim.

One question mark remaining though is what motor the mid-engined GT will be powered by.

Besson has already admitted that it will either be a Ford or GM V8, with at least 500bhp, possibly allied to a paddle-shift manual 'box.

The engine source and final technical details are likely to be announced when the final production version is revealed at the Frankfurt motor show in September.

 

[boiltheocean]

Atleast with a V8 the real thing should sound better than the GT5P one.

 

[Philly]

I wonder how many body modifications and things will have to be done to make it road legal...

 

[homeforsummer]

I suspect not many. I reckon it was designed with production fesibility in mind so there are probably only a few little things that need changing.

I look forward to seeing it in production. It's like the Countach of the '00s - utterly bonkers styling, probably ridiculously impractical but attracts attention like nothing else.

 

[SaberFire]

If I ever see one go down the road, I'm running after it. I did it to an R34, I'll do it to a Citroen!

...never thought I'd say that.

 

[McLaren]

Pretty awesome. How many game developers can claim to be the sole reason for a car's existance?

 

[senamic]

If I ever see one go down the road, I'm running after it. I did it to an R34, I'll do it to a Citroen!

...never thought I'd say that.

You ran after an R34!?!

But I digress.
I wouldn't mind seeing one on the road. It could even have a Japanese mate:

The Citroen and the Mitsuoka would be best of friends!

 

[Jim Prower]

*imagines them dancing happily in a field*

*comes to stark realization how bizarre (yet cute) this mental image is and shoves it out of his head*

Eeeeeeyeah. I'm blaming this on Senamic.

I do believe this car will be rarer than a Bugatti Veyron. Good luck EVER spotting one in the wild.

 

[Leonidae]

if they sell well, i'm almost sure that Citroen might go for bigger set.. say, 100 or more?

 

[Northstar]

I do believe this car will be rarer than a Bugatti Veyron. Good luck EVER spotting one in the wild.

Well considering there are 200 Veyrons(according to Wikipedia) while only 6 GT's this isn't a hard conclusion to come to.

 

[FatboyTim]

Electric Citroen GT spotted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11279436 (@ 00:30 in)

WANT!

 

[Dan_]

Good news, even if the production is limited to only six units, it's a high performance Citroen, and you would never say that before this car was conceived.

Also, why would they use an American V8 in a european supercar? Citroen must have a good relationship with many other manufacturers, give it the AMG 7.3L V12 dammit, that engine is going out of production, but Citroen still can manage to get six of them from Merc and another six as replacement units.

 

[Northstar]

Good news, even if the production is limited to only six units, it's a high performance Citroen, and you would never say that before this car was conceived.

Also, why would they use an American V8 in a european supercar? Citroen must have a good relationship with many other manufacturers, give it the AMG 7.3L V12 dammit, that engine is going out of production, but Citroen still can manage to get six of them from Merc and another six as replacement units.

Simple, the GM LS series of engines are extremely simple and cheap to use while still producing great amounts of power, that is why they are commonly used for kit cars that aren't Cobra replicars.

 

[Dan_]

Simple, the GM LS series of engines are extremely simple and cheap to use while still producing great amounts of power, that is why they are commonly used for kit cars that aren't Cobra replicars.

Yeah, I know it mate, but that is a really really pronounced downturn in a 1.1 million supercar, don't you think?

I reckon that is a clever idea, it would make it easily repairable and powerful enough to back it's supercar status, but still, when you're building a 1.1 million museum artifact ( like this car is ), you wouldn't want to be mistaken by a kitcar manufacturer.

 

[SaberFire]

Yeah, I know it mate, but that is a really really pronounced downturn in a 1.1 million supercar, don't you think?

I reckon that is a clever idea, it would make it easily repairable and powerful enough to back it's supercar status, but still, when you're building a 1.1 million museum artifact ( like this car is ), you wouldn't want to be mistaken by a kitcar manufacturer.

Isn't the Zenvo powered by a Super and Turbocharged Corvette block? Still a classy car.

 

[Tornado]

Yeah, I know it mate, but that is a really really pronounced downturn in a 1.1 million supercar, don't you think?

If it is a version of the LS3 or LSA? Yes. If it is the LS7 or the LS9? No.

 

[Dan_]

Well, no one knows what will be the engine yet, but it will definetely be an american unit.

I always tend to value manufacturers who build their own engines, Pagani is an exception, but building a proper beating mechanical heart shows how much breeding your marque has.

At the end, Citroen doesn't have none performance credentials so it seems to be a reasonable option, but if they actually rework the NA Chevy LS7 to make it more sonorous and more powerful, it would be cool to me, lifting a LS9 straight from a ZR1 would turn this car into a complete animal, the question is though: Would the chassi stands 640hp? I don't believe it was planned to do it, but don't doubt either. I just think that superchargers doesn't fit in the "exquisite cars country club", Koenigsegg is there to prove it, they don't build cars, they build murderers, lovable murderers.

So in the all american engine selection, the "lesser" LS7 would be the best one in my modest opinion. It would be soft enough to allow some Citroen'ish driving cues, and powerful enough to the north of 500hp, keeping up with the initial proposal for the road car.

 

[analog]

Dan, fitting American V8 engines into high-performance European cars was actually quite common from the fifties onwards until the seventies and were called hybrids ironically with that term now meaning something almost the opposite.
Brands like Iso, DeTomaso, Monteverdi, Bristol, Jensen and the French brand Facel Vega all offered sophisticated GT's, übersaloons, and mid-engined sportscars with either Ford, GM or Chrysler sourced V8 engines.
Even Citroën themselves build a version of the Traction Avant with a Ford V8 engine back in the thirties called the 22CV.

 

[Dan_]

Yeah, but that naggy feel of being an American powered europen exotic remains, I'm aware of the pantera as I love that car, but DeTomaso was a quite small manufacturer, that isn't the case with Citroen.

If they're going through all the trouble of building a desperatly striking supercar and only building six of them, go for the crazy way, put in a revvy V12 and let it rock, baby. America doesn't produce any reliable and light V12 as far as I'm aware, so the car would be twice as cool with the Zonda's engine, or with a Bimmer V10.

 

[moonman79]

this will do!!!!
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/tg-drives-the-citroen-survolt

 

[analog]

Yeah, but that naggy feel of being an American powered europen exotic remains, I'm aware of the pantera as I love that car, but DeTomaso was a quite small manufacturer, that isn't the case with Citroen.

If they're going through all the trouble of building a desperatly striking supercar and only building six of them, go for the crazy way, put in a revvy V12 and let it rock, baby. America doesn't produce any reliable and light V12 as far as I'm aware, so the car would be twice as cool with the Zonda's engine, or with a Bimmer V10.

I'll have to agree with you on this, as the examples I mentioned are indeed small volume car makers as opposed to the giant PSA concern.
I do however remember reading a while ago they cancelled the plans to build a few alltogether so this whole debate is probably a bit irrelevant now.
If they did however, it would indeed make more sense to go for a more sophisticated European engine instead of a big American V8.
The BMW V10 would be a great choice, not only because it will probably suit the car more but also because PSA and BMW are already coöperating on Diesel engines ( the Mini shares the same Diesel engine as some Citroëns and Peugeots ).
Or they could make a V12 engine out of 2 of their own V6 engines, worked for Aston Martin ( 2 Ford Mondeo V6 engines forming the basis of its V12 design ).

 

[Tornado]

If they did however, it would indeed make more sense to go for a more sophisticated European engine instead of a big American V8.
The BMW V10 would be a great choice, not only because it will probably suit the car more

You mean the heavier, more expensive, less fuel efficient, less powerful and physically larger V10 with a higher center of gravity?
What exactly makes it more "suitable" for a mid-engine supercar that will presumably be more handling-biased (because of its "low" target power numbers) than an LS7?

Or they could make a V12 engine out of 2 of their own V6 engines, worked for Aston Martin ( 2 Ford Mondeo V6 engines forming the basis of its V12 design ).

That would also required considerably more money to develop than just buying engines from someone else would. Particularly when there would be no other use for the engine in the PSA range besides this specific car, which as you said, has been constantly teetering on the edge of being canceled since it was announced anyways.

 

[Dan_]

You mean the heavier, more expensive, less fuel efficient, less powerful and physically larger V10 with a higher center of gravity?
What exactly makes it more "suitable" for a mid-engine supercar that will presumably be more handling-biased (because of its "low" target power numbers) than an LS7?

I would agree with presumably handling-based but, as far as I know this car is something you'd find in a museum, no target numbers, no performance compromises at all. It's a styling exercise, performance would be the third priority after styling and sound, and this is when the V10 or V12 play their roles. 500 horsepower was the only number Citroen was targeting, and that's easily achievable with a immense range of engines.

That would also required considerably more money to develop than just buying engines from someone else would. Particularly when there would be no other use for the engine in the PSA range besides this specific car, which as you said, has been constantly teetering on the edge of being canceled since it was announced anyways.

Can't disagree on this one, though.

 

[analog]

You mean the heavier, more expensive, less fuel efficient, less powerful and physically larger V10 with a higher center of gravity?
What exactly makes it more "suitable" for a mid-engine supercar that will presumably be more handling-biased (because of its "low" target power numbers) than an LS7?

That would also required considerably more money to develop than just buying engines from someone else would. Particularly when there would be no other use for the engine in the PSA range besides this specific car, which as you said, has been constantly teetering on the edge of being canceled since it was announced anyways.

I didn't really think it through I suppose and haven't got all the facts ( specification of each engine ) at my disposal right now but is the BMW V10 that much heavier and physically larger than for example the 7.3 V12 AMG unit Pagani uses for the Zonda?
Maybe the Lexus V10 from the LFA ( which is much lighter I guess ) is more suitable and with the coöperation between PSA and Toyota ( Aygo being essentially the same car as the Citroën C1 and Peugeot 107 ) not that far fetched I guess.

And yes the example I used to create one V12 engine based on their V6 engines was quite silly considering this to be a very small production run if produced at all, and they could perhaps ( if they wanted to use one of their own engines that is ) create an engine based on that 3.0 V6 by tuning and perhaps force feeding it with 2 turbochargers to create something approaching 500 HP.

 

[Tornado]

I didn't really think it through I suppose and haven't got all the facts ( specification of each engine ) at my disposal right now but is the BMW V10 that much heavier and physically larger than for example the 7.3 V12 AMG unit Pagani uses for the Zonda?

Its possibly lighter and (definitely) smaller than that engine, but that wasn't my point.

Maybe the Lexus V10 from the LFA ( which is much lighter I guess ) is more suitable and with the coöperation between PSA and Toyota ( Aygo being essentially the same car as the Citroën C1 and Peugeot 107 ) not that far fetched I guess.

I would say that is even more far-fetched the the "rumours" that Lexus would sell it to Lotus for use in the Esprit. Toyota would never sell that engine to anybody, least of all to a company making what would basically be a direct competitor to their flagship.

 

[analog]

Its possibly lighter and (definitely) smaller than that engine, but that wasn't my point..

Well, I don't see what your point was to be honest as the main objection you put forward was that it wouldn't be suitable for a mid-engined car and the AMG unit in the Pagani ( which is regarded as one of the best handling supercars ) proves that it can be done.
If it's a very limited edition and extremely expensive hypercar sold to the superrich the fact it might be the more expensive and less fuel efficient option becomes quite irrelevant, at least the BMW V10 with it's high revving short-stroke characteristics making it more reliant on power output than an American V8 which is inherantly more focussed on torque delivery makes it in my opinion more suitable for a mid-engined hypercar than performance figures alone.

I would say that is even more far-fetched the the "rumours" that Lexus would sell it to Lotus for use in the Esprit. Toyota would never sell that engine to anybody, least of all to a company making what would basically be a direct competitor to their flagship.

The difference between offering an exclusive V10 to be used in a production car like the Esprit is completely different to offering it to a limited edition of perhaps only 6, or so, cars sold for a price even far higher than the LFA.
In fact the Esprit would outsell the LFA eventually in the long run and would take the shine of exclusivity away from the LFA's unique engine, sharing it with an even more unique and rarer exclusive car might actually add to the aura of that engine and therefore the LFA.

 

[Tornado]

Well, I don't see what your point was to be honest as the main objection you put forward was that it wouldn't be suitable for a mid-engined car and the AMG unit in the Pagani ( which is regarded as one of the best handling supercars ) proves that it can be done.

It proves that the Mercedes M120 engine (which was at one point used in race cars, remember) could be used. Not that the S85B50 could be. I take issue with you stating that particular engine as being "better" for a mid-engined flagship supercar than the LS7 would. Not European engines in general. Not American engines in general. Note how I specifically said that the LSA (which is a more powerful engine across the board than the LS7) would not be an acceptable substitute for this car.

If it's a very limited edition and extremely expensive hypercar sold to the superrich the fact it might be the more expensive and less fuel efficient option becomes quite irrelevant,

Actually, for this particular car it arguably doesn't. Remember what it originally had planned for a drivetrain.

at least the BMW V10 with it's high revving short-stroke characteristics making it more reliant on power output than an American V8 which is inherantly more focussed on torque delivery makes it in my opinion more suitable for a mid-engined hypercar than performance figures alone.

Engine weight, physical dimensions and center of gravity are pretty important when it comes to drivetrain design, and they have nothing to do with power numbers.

In fact the Esprit would outsell the LFA eventually in the long run and would take the shine of exclusivity away from the LFA's unique engine, sharing it with an even more unique and rarer exclusive car might actually add to the aura of that engine and therefore the LFA.

Toyota built the LF-A to showcase the brand and what Toyota could do. Everything about the car was designed with no regards to cost. It makes no sense to then turn around and offload the main talking point to another company, no matter what the source would be.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

Toyota built the LF-A to showcase the brand and what Toyota could do. Everything about the car was designed with no regards to cost. It makes no sense to then turn around and offload the main talking point to another company, no matter what the source would be.

This. There would be no day when Toyota develops a high-performance engine and then sells them for just 6 cars! I'm not all-knowing on engines like some of you, but I like the idea of the American V8 in a Citroen. It's not like the owner will care, his garage is like a closet, he just pulls out what he wants for the day.

Although Citroen probably wouldn't take the LF-A's V10 anyway. They wouldn't give it to anyone else. Although truthfully, the LF-A isn't that great a car.

Well, according to my avatar, I shouldn't be dissing Lexus's (plural?) LF-A.

 

[MatskiMonk]

BMW V8TT from the X5M/X6M would probably be more suitable for the GT, and it 555hp out of the box...

.. or the Twin Turbo V12 from BMW..

 

[GT_Prologue5]

Or maybe they could have been cooler and actually inserted 779hp electric motors? Come on they're only making 6!

I say this because I was just playing GT5 Prologue in my red Citroen. It's like a roller coaster....