Classic American Car - Good Idea In The UK?

[BMW POWER]

Right, firstly just got to say I don't really know much about classic American cars, all I know is that for the last few months I really, really want one! Been looking online trying to do some research and work out what kind of car I actually want. I think for now, I decided I want either a 69 Camaro or a 69 Impala like the one I found here:
http://dreamcars.co.uk/cars-for-sale.php?gazpart=view&gazimage=599
Seems over in the UK Impala's are quite a bit cheaper than the Camaro (easier to bring the Mrs around to the idea that we need some Amercian muscle in our life if it's cheaper to start with!) I really love everything about the look of the Impala I linked too except the colour, but at this price I could still have it sent to the bodyshop for a change. Just wanted to get everyones thoughts and opinion on the subject, maybe suggest looking for a few cars I haven't thought of yet. I'm not a great lover of the Mustang and did consider a replica Cobra but not sure I like them either. So far I think it's between the Camaro and Impala, would like a 60's Charger but their even more cash over here! I got a very large garage / storage lockup so what ever I get can live there, will only be very light use on the weekends so not worried about running costs etc and I'm not really interested in performance, would just like a V8 burble to roll around too! I'm basically looking for any info from you guys about the Camaro / Impala that I should know and if there's any other similar cars I should consider?
Cheers fellas.

 

[Zenith]

Right, firstly just got to say I don't really know much about classic American cars, all I know is that for the last few months I really, really want one! Been looking online trying to do some research and work out what kind of car I actually want. I think for now, I decided I want either a 69 Camaro or a 69 Impala like the one I found here:
http://dreamcars.co.uk/cars-for-sale.php?gazpart=view&gazimage=599
Seems over in the UK Impala's are quite a bit cheaper than the Camaro (easier to bring the Mrs around to the idea that we need some Amercian muscle in our life if it's cheaper to start with!) I really love everything about the look of the Impala I linked too except the colour, but at this price I could still have it sent to the bodyshop for a change. Just wanted to get everyones thoughts and opinion on the subject, maybe suggest looking for a few cars I haven't thought of yet. I'm not a great lover of the Mustang and did consider a replica Cobra but not sure I like them either. So far I think it's between the Camaro and Impala, would like a 60's Charger but their even more cash over here! I got a very large garage / storage lockup so what ever I get can live there, will only be very light use on the weekends so not worried about running costs etc and I'm not really interested in performance, would just like a V8 burble to roll around too! I'm basically looking for any info from you guys about the Camaro / Impala that I should know and if there's any other similar cars I should consider?
Cheers fellas.

I'd skip the Impala. It's too big for modern American roads so it'll be an absolute tank in the UK. You should go see if you can find an Impala to see in person. You'll be amazed.

A Camaro would work very well in the UK. The 69 Camaro was much larger than the 67's-68's, but most people maintain that it was the best year for the car. Regardless of where you drive the car or how you drive it, you need to solve these three problems:

1) Flexible chassis
2) 40+ year old suspension (It was cheap and basic back then, imagine how outdated it is now)
3) Rubbish brakes

You can solve them cheaply and easily with:
1) Shock tower braces, sub frame connectors, etc.
2) Bigger sway bars, stiffer springs/shocks.
3) Disc brake conversions.

Once you've got those down, even at a basic level, you'll be able to drive it like any normal car.

I know you say that you're not worried about running costs, but you should be. These parts have been under wear and tear for nearly 50 years now. Parts will wear out until they break and electrics will fry. If you plan on doing the work yourself, then be prepared to devote several weekends at a time to fixing and updating your parts. Even if you only drive on the weekends, things like bumps, a heavy right foot, or just turning the car on will wear key components down, and they'll be more expensive to replace because you're an ocean away from most of the parts dealers. That's all the detail I'm going to go into on this front for now, but there's much more to cover if you're interested.

 

[Shant J.]

If you want something small, then perhaps a Ford Falcon or a Chevrolet Nova?

 

[BMW POWER]

Thanks for the info Zenith013, all sound advice. Yeah I really do like the Camaro but it is quite a bit more money to buy than the Impala so may have to think and try to convince the other half. I didn't realise there was a difference from the 68 - 69 Camaro, just googled it now and even though the differences look quite subtle, think I prefer the 68 after all. I'm more than happy to put the weekends in and do some spanner work, I got a 4 ton lift in the garage so would be great to actually have a car that I can work on instead of the usual "off to the dealer for it's annual service thing". I'm no pro but basic things like you mentioned I should be ok with, engine rebuilds etc would have to be sourced out lol. Like you said, I think the trickiest area would be sourcing the parts, plenty of sites over the pond but just finding one that could ship for a decent price to the UK. Would love to hear anymore thoughts you got on the matter though.

If you want something small, then perhaps a Ford Falcon or a Chevrolet Nova?

Missed your post Shant, just had a look at them and not sure they really do it for me, to be honest though they look like they would suit our roads a lot better but don't grab me really like some of the others. Appreciate the input though mate 👍

 

[BrutherSuperior]

1970 was the year that the Camaro changed a lot...not '69. From 1967-69, Camaros are the same size.

Something to think about in the UK; many classic US cars do not have a side mirror on the passenger side (left). Since you guys drive on the WRONG side of the road, that's something to think about if you're concerned it keeping the car as original as possible. If keeping the car OE/showroom isn't a concern; go nuts with it.

By today's standards, that car is crap. But it looks good, sounds good, and has a bit of charm to it...something you don't get even in new pony cars. It'll rattle, the cowl with shake, the suspension will bounce around, and you'll love every minute of it. Great cars...

 

[lpb-nissan-gt-r]

The only problem we experenced when my) dad had his 64 Customline was that it was quite wide so was scary for me(passenger on narrow roads, service was done by a shop in farnbourough who specialise in american cars was called north american motors iirc. other then that the american car show that I have attended for the past 7 or so years supernationals and nations run by the nsra are really enjoyable shows suitable for the family.

 

[Cowboys965]

Can you have different side than your wheels in UK? and can un have opposite wheel drive in the US? you should get an old Corvette 69 or 70 stingray

 

[-Fred-]

I'd personally go with something a little less known or "desireable", like a Malibu (which is pretty much a Chevelle) or a Pontiac Tempest (which is pretty much a GTO), or even a Dodge Polara like those cop cars in the movies. They're probably worth a lot less than a Camaro/Impala/Charger/Mustang/Challenger/Cuda, and way more original.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'd personally go with something a little less known or "desireable", like a Malibu (which is pretty much a Chevelle) or a Pontiac Tempest (which is pretty much a GTO), or even a Dodge Polara like those cop cars in the movies. They're probably worth a lot less than a Camaro/Impala/Charger/Mustang/Challenger/Cuda, and way more original.

I'd second this.

Something a bit more obscure, but still a 60s or early 70s classic will still look hugely cool but be a bit cheaper to buy. I'd even consider looking for a pickup like a Chevy 3100 or a Ford F-100. My personal choice, if I ever find one cheaply, is a 62 Buick of a similar shape to the Buick Special in GT.

If you search out Venari he might be able to help you as he owns a bit of classic 1960s American iron. He's not on GTP too often but I'm sure he can offer advice.

 

[Zenith]

I was wrong; I thought that the Camaro grew in '69, then again during its redesign in '70. Turns out that it only looked larger and more aggressive in '69. It's the same size as the '67 and '68.

If you like 68' Camaros, then I'd recommend looking at '67s. They're nearly the same design, but the '67 has the little winglet windows in front of the main ones. It also has smoother lines because in '68 all the manufacturers had to add side reflectors to their cars.

Fred has a point, cheaper cars like the Tempest are cheaper to buy and share lots of parts with their more popular cousin's. The issues are...

a) It takes some research (and perhaps some machine shop work) to ensure that parts for another vehicle work on yours

b) Parts that are unique to the car are much harder to find and more expensive to buy.

c) If you want to add aftermarket touches to improve its driving characteristics or aesthetics, you're not going to have the same support in a Malibu as you would in a Camaro. If you just want to change some wheels here, upgrade this there, a Malibu would be fine. If you want to make a complete restomod that reflects your taste in every way, look at the popular stuff.

Some more thoughts:

-I'd really try to stick a pony car (eg: Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Javelin) if you're going to use it in the UK. Full on muscle cars are just too big. You won't be able to enjoy your drive if you're spending all your brain power on fitting between the lines. Pony cars are smaller than most sedans these days.

-Think long and hard about exactly what you want to do with your car. Not only what you want to do with it, but also what sort of attitude you want from it.

Look at these for some ideas of car options.
http://listverse.com/2009/08/15/10-classic-american-muscle-cars/
http://blogs.iguides.org/info/top-10-classic-american-cars.html
http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2010/06/01/hmn_feature2.html
especially that bottom one.

Corvair, anyone?

-Also, the 3 things I talked about earlier up the page (stiffness, suspension, brakes) can be upgraded to modern standards for anywhere between $1500-3000 in total, at least in America.

 

[stumpydino]

Depends how much money you got Over here you don't really have much choice, It's all good listing the top ten muscle cars but you can either wait until the fluke that your dream car shows up or settle for a reasonable compromise, Or, import one, a lot of aggro and possible risk in that but can end up being cheaper than buying one already here!
Example in custom car theres a few nice finds, a clean 66 el camino with a bb454 going for £12k, or a 69 super bee with a 383 for 12 too, choice is limited but you can still have a decent car if you look.
You have to be careful over here, it pays to get to know local groups and find out where they get their cars sorted out and bits bought. You're in a good spot though, so should have plenty around, plus for meets you're not too far from the Ace Cafe, Billing or Santa Pod. Classic American and Custom Car magazine is a good source too.
You can easily end up with a pup, and there are a fair few dodgy dealers, a lot of backyard bodge jobs, standard garages won't know much to be of any use and you will learn of some nasty horror stories! If you can do most work on the car great, but do find a local specialist garage to source parts.

 

[MEJ1990TM]

I'd personally go with something a little less known or "desireable", like a Malibu (which is pretty much a Chevelle) or a Pontiac Tempest (which is pretty much a GTO), or even a Dodge Polara like those cop cars in the movies. They're probably worth a lot less than a Camaro/Impala/Charger/Mustang/Challenger/Cuda, and way more original.

All Malibu's are Chevelles, but not all Chevelles are Malibus. Just thought I'd throw that out there. 💡

Another car to consider might be the Nova aka Chevy II (Before 1969). They are usually fairly inexpensive, and it doesn't take much to make them go fast.

 

[TheCracker]

A few points worth noting about late '60's Classic American cars. At this period of time the cars were huge and really not designed with twisty narrow european roads in mind, add LHD into the equation and your occasional fun drive will be less than relaxing. Fuel consumption will also be woeful. Spare parts, which you will require at some point in a 40+ year old car will be expensive, if you can locate them in the first place, since they'll need to be imported. A pre '65 Falcon or a Mustang may be nearer to being a Euro-sized car but are used for historic racing all across Europe so will be valued over the odds. Rust could also be a massive issue. A car imported from a dry state might be rust free when imported but could rot infront of your eyes after a British winter or two. Like any classic car, you can't just expect for them to be reliable in the same way a modern or relative modern is.

All that aside, unless you really want a Camaro or Impala, Camaro especially, i'd look for something slightly more left-field. Check out the classic muscle car mags in the UK and see what the importers have in stock. 99.9% of people in the UK wouldn't know the difference between a Continental and a Nova, to them they're all the same so you have a level playing field as far as the general public are concerned when it comes to image. See what's in your price range and what you like the look of and go for what's in decent condition otherwise you could easily end up with a money pit. You can't just get spares from a scrap yard or even a local specialist, since they just don't exist this side of the pond.

 

[Bigbazz]

A friend of mine is absolutely adament on buying a black Dodge Charger 440 sometime in the near future. When you love a car that much you can forgive the hopeless handling, lack of brakes, horrible fuel efficiency and general lack of safety!

Not for me though, a good condition one will set you back a good £30,000+. I could get a lot of car for that.

 

[ozyran]

Personally, I'd say go for something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1972-DODGE-DART-SWINGER-/190541385488?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c5d26cf10

I know it's not a Chevelle, or Impala, or Camaro. It's a tad bit on the small side compared to those. Still, I'd say it would make a good choice on the basis that it's not going to cause you as much stress as that Impala would when it comes to maneuvering the thing; it's still plenty big to give you the classic muscle car feeling but not so big that it overwhelms you. It's got a 318 that's been bored out pushing around a car that weighs in at ~1,360 kg, which means fuel consumption, while not good, won't kill you at the pump. The 318 isn't a monster engine but it is generally a rock-solid engine, and the 727 Torqueflite transmission tends to be reliable. The Dart was made in fair quantity so getting parts shouldn't be killer so long as you shop around.

Decide what you want, but my vote is for the '72 Dart, especially since it's running £8,750.00 and you could probably talk them down a few hundred.

More info about the Dodge Dart: http://www.valiant.org/dart/1972.html

 

[Heldenzeit]

Anything with a small block Chevrolet, they made millions of them.

Good luck and post pics if you do get something.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Has anyone seen a 1st generation Camaro parked next to a new one? The new Camaro dwarfs it. So will a 5-Series and most other sedans...it's not a big car. Likewise, an old GM A-body (Chevelle, Cutlass, Skylark, GTO) is about the same size as a modern Nissan Maxima and weighs about the same. Think about that for a minute...

As far as sourcing parts; there's countless numbers of distributors & vendors for vintage parts. Hell, you can order them online if they do not have the right part at a local auto parts store. Anyone drive an import and need something like a fuel filter? You can't find those at the local parts store so you're left getting hosed at the dealer or you order it online...not a big deal.

The problems with these cars is that they are in various states of mechanical fitness. A real good example with all the documentation will obviously be more expensive than the car you pull out of someone's back yard after you hand Bubba $1000.

The things to check will be fluid leaks, compression, oil pressure, and anything that frightens you when you drive it. Weird clunks, strange whines, tires rubbing the fender, or smoke billowing out of the tail pipes are obviously bad signs...fixable...but signs that the car will need a lot of TLC before it's made 'right'.

But $10-12k? You can find a real nice SS/Z28 clone for that price and you can drive it the next day without much worries. When you get into the numbers matching, rare options, concourse style cars...then you pay big bucks. For someone who wants a cool car that makes all sorts of noise; does having the original block really justify the added cost? Not really... A built crate motor will give that buyer much more bang for the buck than a OEM engine while saving thousands.

My advise? Look for clones. They're cheaper, but look just as cool and will probably out perform the museum pieces they're replicating.

 

[Sniffs]

Bruther, you did it again, read without looking at the location posted from

this guys British, looking for an american oldie to drive around
the Bubbas are all called "leslie" or "Beverly" and have cockney accents or Yorkshire ones
Brits know howt to actually repair and fix, plus there not that subject to salt-based disintegration (water based, on the other hand...)

I'd be more worried about the ginormous fuel consumption of what he's looking at, and if they'll even FIT on the roads (the B roads, anyway)
cracker has a point, though. cars of that era are more about power, straight line speed, and dealing with straight line cruising. plus, to some of us, it's an insult to the car to see little low profile tyres on em.

boy, did my inner Brit kick in thismorning

 

[MEJ1990TM]

A friend of mine is absolutely adament on buying a black Dodge Charger 440 sometime in the near future. When you love a car that much you can forgive the hopeless handling, lack of brakes, horrible fuel efficiency and general lack of safety!

Not for me though, a good condition one will set you back a good £30,000+. I could get a lot of car for that.

I am just curious, have you driven a Charger of that era?

 

[Roo]

I can't give any advice on American cars other than the fuel costs will probably make you cry, regardless of how little you use it. Try going along to the Guildford Cruise and asking a few owners whatever you want to know. You'll need to get there earlier rather than later as it gets taken over by Eurohatch questionable modifications in the evening (amusingly called No Rice, with no trace of irony). Also try paying North American Motor Company (NAMCO) in Farnborough a visit.

 

[stumpydino]

I'd be more worried about the ginormous fuel consumption of what he's looking at, and if they'll even FIT on the roads (the B roads, anyway)

I read somewhere single track roads are usually 6'6", I have taken my f body down some country lanes that were just wider than it It's not so much B roads you have to worry about but inner city residential streets where the terraced housing has parking on both sides of the roads. I know most parking spaces are meant to be 2 and a bit metres wide, depending how stingy your council is, you will probably just about fit, but do it on an end of a row so you can actually open your door

 

[Bigbazz]

I am just curious, have you driven a Charger of that era?

I wish, the only time i've ever seen one in the flesh is on holiday in america/canada with proud owners in a carpark meetup. I'm from the UK those cars are rare here. I've seen plenty of videos in action, owners commenting and videogame simulations though.

 

[homeforsummer]

Brits know howt to actually repair and fix, plus there not that subject to salt-based disintegration (water based, on the other hand...

We really are. They salt the roads ridiculously often around here in winter. Rust is a big problem for anything out on the roads all year around.

You're right though, fuel is a bigger problem. We pay roughly twice what you guys do.

Still worth it for a classic V8 though. Anything pre-1972 gets free road tax too.

 

[Sniffs]

stumpy: well, that explains a lot. i think our minimum lane width for paved roads is 8 feet per lane (DIRT roads on the other hand...)
as for on street parking, I don't know how it is (and how they can get away with it) in the cities, but that's utterly ridiculous, making you park like that in a residential neighbourhood. they used to train us in both drivers ed and cuturally for that, but not any more. besides, it's not the width of the parking space, here, it's the fact that everyone packs bumper to bumper touching trying to squeeze in so no-one gets hit by the boobs trying to make a turn coming out a side street.

Home: yeah, but if my understanding of how the MOT works is right, rust don't get a chance, because bodies have to be bloody perfect (you wouldn't believe the condition the cars can get over here in some states, and still be road legal)

the last update I got on British Road Tax was from (get this) from a series 2 ep of Grace and Favour when they had to fake a road tax disk on an old Daimler with a beer bottle label just to go to town who started THAT little expense, Labour or Conservative?

 

[jet1991]

I drive an old American car on crappy european roads all the time. It really isn`t that bad. But my C3 really isn`t that big compared to the landyachts of the 60`s and 70`s. There are many classic American cars on our roads and none seem to have any problems driving their cars. I work in Scotland so I do know what your roads look like and they are not that different from ours. I also thought most luxury SUVs were about the same size as the old landyachts, but they seem to get around easily. I`d recommend you a C3. They are cheap (here in Norway at least) and most of them are still alive which means someone has to make a lot of replacement parts which again means it`s easy to find parts for my car. I buy all my parts from the US and they are suprisingly cheap compared to anything on my parents VW. I guess anything with an small block chevy can be recommended. NEVER drive on salted roads and always park the car in a garage. That will kill them fast. Classic cars were never properly protected against rust. The paint on my cars frame was peeling off and you could see shiny metal between the rust.

 

[mustangGT90210]

AGreed there. Salt murders old cars. Really all cars, to be specific

 

[Famine]

Home: yeah, but if my understanding of how the MOT works is right, rust don't get a chance, because bodies have to be bloody perfect (you wouldn't believe the condition the cars can get over here in some states, and still be road legal)

Nope. You're not allowed body rust that causes sharp edges, nor rust that forms within a certain distance of mounting points for suspension or seatbelts (and other vital components), but otherwise it's fine. Our German tank got an MOT just yesterday and the tailgate is entirely made of rust. And stickers.

the last update I got on British Road Tax was from (get this) from a series 2 ep of Grace and Favour when they had to fake a road tax disk on an old Daimler with a beer bottle label just to go to town who started THAT little expense, Labour or Conservative?

Cars registered before 1st January 1973 require a tax disc, but they are tax exempt - they display a tax disc with a value of £0. You just need to wander down to a post office with your certificate of insurance, a valid MOT and the V5C log book (the British equivalent of the vehicle title) and you get a £0 tax disc, no beer labels required.

Technically road excise (VED, road tax, other names here) was introduced by a Liberal Coalition government of David Lloyd George in 1920, so neither.

 

[Sniffs]

Nope. You're not allowed body rust that causes sharp edges, nor rust that forms within a certain distance of mounting points for suspension or seatbelts (and other vital components), but otherwise it's fine. Our German tank got an MOT just yesterday and the tailgate is entirely made of rust. And stickers.

unfortunately, that's nearly the FIRST place rust starts to form, bolts and nuts. there's so many things bolted into the unibody that modern american cars should technically be illegal . oh, I think out guys worry more about Asphyxiation by carbon monoxide.

Cars registered before 1st January 1973 require a tax disc, but they are tax exempt - they display a tax disc with a value of £0. You just need to wander down to a post office with your certificate of insurance, a valid MOT and the V5C log book (the British equivalent of the vehicle title) and you get a £0 tax disc, no beer labels required.

Technically road excise (VED, road tax, other names here) was introduced by a Liberal Coalition government of David Lloyd George in 1920, so neither.

well, now I know what they mean by "log Book" in some older pricing entries in some of our antique sample prices. they draw from mostly the British Auction houses. Of course, Americans would kill people for a literall road tax. they'd been trying to rig it so that one particular motorway in the state got "tollboothed". everybody promplty said they'd take side roads (no-one wants the extra expense of paying the tolls when they're barely breaking even). at the time, the state governor was trying to use the money earned to take some of the state's maintenance burden off. the WHOLE state (they figured 400+ million in tolls). they had to be told several times that toll money is exclusively for the maintenance of the road that's being tolled, and can't be used for any other purpose whatsoever. the then govener wanted to use part of it for statewide road and bridge repair