Clutches

  • Thread starter Racin510s
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I was wondering why in many tunes I see the suggested clutch is a twin plate instead of a triple plate clutch. Why is my question. I have always used the triple plate clutch in all of my cars.

Having been a race engine builder, mid '70s - late '80s (Nissan, VW/Audi and British engines mostly) I understand about light flywheels and when to use one or the other as you gain RPM with a light flywheel but loose some torque due to lack of rotational mass. The clutch on the other hand does lower rotational mass but makes a much better connection to the engine to make power to the drive wheels.

Those type clutches really weren't around except in drag racing but was still experimental in those days. I've only owned one car with a twin plate clutch which was a '69 Datsun 510. I do remember that there was a big difference in response with the twin.

I did try and search before I posted this. Thank you in advance. You are never too old to learn something new.
 
I was wondering why in many tunes I see the suggested clutch is a twin plate instead of a triple plate clutch. Why is my question. I have always used the triple plate clutch in all of my cars.

Having been a race engine builder, mid '70s - late '80s (Nissan, VW/Audi and British engines mostly) I understand about light flywheels and when to use one or the other as you gain RPM with a light flywheel but loose some torque due to lack of rotational mass. The clutch on the other hand does lower rotational mass but makes a much better connection to the engine to make power to the drive wheels.

Those type clutches really weren't around except in drag racing but was still experimental in those days. I've only owned one car with a twin plate clutch which was a '69 Datsun 510. I do remember that there was a big difference in response with the twin.

I did try and search before I posted this. Thank you in advance. You are never too old to learn something new.
I have found that lower pp cars such as 450pp do not really see any significant gain between Twin-Plate and Triple. I myself will usually go with the Triple any chance I get but some feel it as unneeded. Up to the tuner I suppose, the track at hand may also play a role as lower pp tunes seem better with Twin, example would be Deep Forest and Trial Mountain. Hills seem to cause slight bogging down with lower powered cars, but I still prefer the Triple.

Glad to see you return, I hope your little missions trip went well.:)
 
Speaking of this subject;

I found this on the web while browsing around;
__________________________________________________________________________________
Clutches
Twin-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate is an amalgam of a lightweight flywheel and a two-plate clutch. The lightweight flywheel makes up for the decreased rotational force which in turn lets your car have a better engine response.

Using these clutch-plates, you will be able to decrease the gear ratios and improve the overall acceleration of your car.

Triple-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate features an even more lightweight flywheel combined with a three-plate clutch so as to provide a more road-grip and control. And like I have afore mentioned, a short gear will reduce the top speed so bear that in mind.

Surely, the acceleration and responsiveness of the engine will increase, but you will have to sustain the loss of revs on the down side.
__________________________________________________________________________________


my question is this, If this is correct, If you were making a higher speed build, would the twin actually give you more revs per gear?
or if you were making a low speed torque build, which would be better?
I always have used the triple. So no, I have never experimented with these.
Is this just a bunch of baloney?
 
In GT, the triple has always been quicker on-track. The double can make some cars easier to control than the triple, which increases the probability of wheelspin.
 
Speaking of this subject;

...
my question is this, If this is correct, If you were making a higher speed build, would the twin actually give you more revs per gear?
or if you were making a low speed torque build, which would be better?
I always have used the triple. So no, I have never experimented with these.
Is this just a bunch of baloney?

I think it'd be safe to say that for most of us, yes, probably, in part due to driving style and in part to skill, but also the varying conditions at the raceways.

I guess the idea is that the triple-plate starts to slip under prolonged torque, so it's not so much the gear as the acceleration (specifically, the ~static value, like a hill or cruising at top speed near the limiter might produce)

From my recollection (and paraphrasing) of the games' help on the clutches, the triple plate is good for dynamic loading, it's not so good for static loading, so while it might be good for adhoc drag racing, and acceptable at Willow Springs, (due to the low elev change), it might suck rocks at Deep forest, Sierra, etc. or Nascar, or long duration events if the damage model has an affect on the triple-plate clutch over time. EDIT: Or where the game's "triple-plate clutch" effect kicks in

So I'll admit I haven't done any real testing either. I usually buy and blindly install the twin as a standard build item, but for one reason or another, I've avoided using the triple plate.

I ran deep forest a long time ago using each, and I did notice it lagged off on the hill, but my conclusions weren't based on tabulated results of rpm vs..., just a glance at the speedo and the cars' response after multiple laps. I think I was driving one of the Mazda RX-7s, but I'm guessing they'll all have the same basic change in feel at any given track. However, I bet I could make good use of the triple plate at Ascari (with the right car).
 
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I was wondering why in many tunes I see the suggested clutch is a twin plate instead of a triple plate clutch. Why is my question. I have always used the triple plate clutch in all of my cars.

Having been a race engine builder, mid '70s - late '80s (Nissan, VW/Audi and British engines mostly) I understand about light flywheels and when to use one or the other as you gain RPM with a light flywheel but loose some torque due to lack of rotational mass. The clutch on the other hand does lower rotational mass but makes a much better connection to the engine to make power to the drive wheels.

Those type clutches really weren't around except in drag racing but was still experimental in those days. I've only owned one car with a twin plate clutch which was a '69 Datsun 510. I do remember that there was a big difference in response with the twin.

I did try and search before I posted this. Thank you in advance. You are never too old to learn something new.

-
10906515_1547133938861504_8814399654312105624_n.jpg

- we never this old to learn.
Has a saying we learning born and die without knowing

-
maroc_16.jpg

Datson 240 was already one of my favorite cars. you reminded me of my youth raly loved, and still love

- double clutch min testing in daytona was better in the final speed,:cheers:👍:gtpflag:
 
Speaking of this subject;

I found this on the web while browsing around;
__________________________________________________________________________________
Clutches
Twin-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate is an amalgam of a lightweight flywheel and a two-plate clutch. The lightweight flywheel makes up for the decreased rotational force which in turn lets your car have a better engine response.

Using these clutch-plates, you will be able to decrease the gear ratios and improve the overall acceleration of your car.

Triple-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate features an even more lightweight flywheel combined with a three-plate clutch so as to provide a more road-grip and control. And like I have afore mentioned, a short gear will reduce the top speed so bear that in mind.

Surely, the acceleration and responsiveness of the engine will increase, but you will have to sustain the loss of revs on the down side.
__________________________________________________________________________________


my question is this, If this is correct, If you were making a higher speed build, would the twin actually give you more revs per gear?
or if you were making a low speed torque build, which would be better?
I always have used the triple. So no, I have never experimented with these.
Is this just a bunch of baloney?

Thank you to everyone especially @demonchilde for the ^ info. Also to @xande1959 for the Daytona info. I was not aware that the triple had an even lighter flywheel. So based on that info it makes sense to use the twin especially in lower PP cars and depending on the track. I will do some testing on both lower and higher PP cars. I'm interested in seeing the difference and maybe it will help others as well.

To @Bowtie-muscle, thanks for the kind words though I'm not back for full time racing I'm still traveling some and my days for GT6 are still somewhat limited. I never know from one to to the next where I might end up but it has been great and I've seen the LORD do some great miracles. I am also at awe that He chooses to use a mess like me for His glory.
 
[QUOTE="Racin510s, post:

To @Bowtie-muscle, thanks for the kind words though I'm not back for full time racing I'm still traveling some and my days for GT6 are still somewhat limited. I never know from one to to the next where I might end up but it has been great and I've seen the LORD do some great miracles. I am also at awe that He chooses to use a mess like me for His glory.[/QUOTE]

The Lord uses who he will, His Word tells us He has used some people you would never expect, Rahab for instance. May you be blessed in your travels and your work.
As for GT6 and GTPlanet, they will be here when you have time for them.:)
 
The triple decreases shifting time as well...

I look forward to seeing testing that shows a twin plate clutch is quicker

- I just did a simple test car with 450 PP with Twin-plate clutch kit. best lap 1:11 .113.
with triple-plate clutch best lap 1: 11,363. now minimal difference but nun most powerful car, it can show greater difference.
 
my question is this, If this is correct, If you were making a higher speed build, would the twin actually give you more revs per gear?
or if you were making a low speed torque build, which would be better?
I always have used the triple. So no, I have never experimented with these.
Is this just a bunch of baloney?
Double clutch (DCT or DSG) is a type of exchange for cars that use two-piece clutch calls that allows very fast exchanges between machas in relations to other types of exchange.

It is widely used in high performance cars, but can in theory be used in any type of car. This type of exchange is very similar to semi-automatic Exchange (also called "automated exchange").
 
IMO, triple clutch hits gears too raw for high power/torque car when driving with low grip tires, double clutch slips slightly and makes easier to maintain grip on those cars.
When driving racing series tires triple works just fine.

Triple clutch = on/off switch
double clutch = moderate slip between gear changes
Standard clutch = kinda big slipping between gear changes (easiest for maintaining grip, but you lose time for several reasons)

I'm mostly on double, and just because using comfort and sports tires.
 
Speaking of this subject;

I found this on the web while browsing around;
__________________________________________________________________________________
Clutches
Twin-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate is an amalgam of a lightweight flywheel and a two-plate clutch. The lightweight flywheel makes up for the decreased rotational force which in turn lets your car have a better engine response.

Using these clutch-plates, you will be able to decrease the gear ratios and improve the overall acceleration of your car.

Triple-Plate Clutch
This clutch-plate features an even more lightweight flywheel combined with a three-plate clutch so as to provide a more road-grip and control. And like I have afore mentioned, a short gear will reduce the top speed so bear that in mind.

Surely, the acceleration and responsiveness of the engine will increase, but you will have to sustain the loss of revs on the down side.
__________________________________________________________________________________


my question is this, If this is correct, If you were making a higher speed build, would the twin actually give you more revs per gear?
or if you were making a low speed torque build, which would be better?
I always have used the triple. So no, I have never experimented with these.
Is this just a bunch of baloney?
Clutches don't affect RPM's, or "revs".
Flywheels affect how easily or quickly your engine can rev, but generally speaking should have no effect on the RPM range you use while driving/racing.

As for twin vs triple plate clutch, the only real difference is grip, in a nutshell. The triple plate has more grip,(on the flywheel, as that's what clutches grab) and is also more like an on/off switch. (meaning it can cause a driver to engage it too quickly, causing sudden wheelspin or lock)

As for flywheels, I've generally been told that lighter is better, it is more responsive, revs quicker, and transmits more power to the driving wheels. (in drivetrains, less inertia means more power at the wheels)
The only standing use for twin plate or single plate clutches, and/or heavier flywheels, is driver ease of use. Manufactures beef up flywheels on people carriers to make them drive easier and more smoothly, for example.

At least as far as I've ever known...
 
Clutches don't affect RPM's, or "revs".
Flywheels affect how easily or quickly your engine can rev, but generally speaking should have no effect on the RPM range you use while driving/racing.

As for twin vs triple plate clutch, the only real difference is grip, in a nutshell. The triple plate has more grip,(on the flywheel, as that's what clutches grab) and is also more like an on/off switch. (meaning it can cause a driver to engage it too quickly, causing sudden wheelspin or lock)

As for flywheels, I've generally been told that lighter is better, it is more responsive, revs quicker, and transmits more power to the driving wheels. (in drivetrains, less inertia means more power at the wheels)
The only standing use for twin plate or single plate clutches, and/or heavier flywheels, is driver ease of use. Manufactures beef up flywheels on people carriers to make them drive easier and more smoothly, for example.

At least as far as I've ever known...
In a nutshell, you totally nailed the explanation. The only difference in game seems to be how fast gear change occurs. And the only time it seems to make any difference (IN MY OPINION) is with lower powered cars. But still, when i can I opt for the Triple-Plate.
 
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