Concept to production- What will be lost?

[TopHat]

Hey all, I was just thinking about how badly I want a Camaro or a Challenger concept, and I was wondering what will be left out from the concept to the final production model?

Of course, the hood stripes on the Challenger wont be exposed Carbon Fiber, but just stripes and stuff of the like.

If there was one thing that I would most want to get to production unscathed it would either be the look, or the sound....

 

[1X83Z]

It'll look quite similar. The rule is this: concepts that will be built typically look similar to the real thing. Hundreds of cases in point here, but I'll use the Viper:

That was the concept unveiled at the 1989 NAIAS; of course it was in production by MY 1992 and looked quite similar.

Stuff that doesn't make production often looks weird:

I think lots of Camaro and Challenger bits won't be changed.

 

[TopHat]

Hoo boy, that Viper concept is one ugly mother. I'm glad they changed bits and peices of that thing...

WTF is that Mercedes thing?

Also, I actually hope they drop the oversized wheels, I'd go for the 20's, but not 22's. I'd love to have a 18 or 19 inch wheel though!

 

[Slicks]

For the Camaro's case specifically, I think there will be a few changes.

1. Bigger mirrors.
2. Smaller wheels.
3. Slightly modified grille and headlight assembly. I'm not sure if it is ready to comply with regulations as-is.... If it isn't then it will obviously need to be changed.
4. Roofline may be raised slightly to give more headroom.
5. Again, depending on regulations, there may need to be a B-Pillar.

For the interior, I imagine the layout will remain similar to what we've seen, but materials and the guage cluster may vary.

 

[TopHat]

As for #5, the CL class Mercedes has no B-Pillar, so why not for the Camaro and Challenger?

 

[Slicks]

I'm just saying that it may need it to meet side-impact regulations. As I said, I'm not sure if it will be required or not. I hope not, needless to say.

 

[///M-Spec]

As for #5, the CL class Mercedes has no B-Pillar, so why not for the Camaro and Challenger?

Cost, most likely. It takes some work and $ to make a pillar-less design that is rigid enough to compete with a traditional coupe. It probably also adds weight, because the strength needs to come from somewhere. Don't forget a pillarless coupe will need another set of windows and all the associated design, hardware and testing that goes along with it.

I'm not suggesting I know for a fact they won't do it, I'm just putting out reasons why they may not.


M

 

[TopHat]

I have a reason for them to do it:


PEOPLE WANT IT.

Also, its "retro" to have no B-Pillar.

 

[Tornado]

I have a reason for them to do it:


PEOPLE WANT IT.

Also, its "retro" to have no B-Pillar.

Yeah, but would people want it if it makes the Camaro cost $40,000 or makes the windows leak?
Chrysler was famous in the 90's of toning down many of their outlandish concepts to make them street applicable, too, notably the Neon concept, the Pronto Cruizer, the Crossfire and the LRT concept. This only happens when their future production cars have outlandish (Neon) or expensive to replicate (Crossfire) designs, though they were good enough at it to stick quite close to the final design in overall shape, if not details as well. As such, it used to be quite difficult guessing what cars Chrysler showed would end up making it to production, as their method of slightly modifying concept cars but still sticking to the original design was very thorough. I still remember my surprise when Chrysler decided not to produce the PT Spyder (not the same as the PT Cruiser convertible), 300 Hemi C Convertible (not the same as the current 300C) or Dodge Charger (not the same as the current Charger) concepts.
Naturally none of these points apply to silly limited production cars (Viper and Prowler), which made the jump virtually unchanged except to the very perceptive.

 

[YSSMAN]

Hold on a second now... I'll go through the two based on what I have heard.

* On the Camaro *

- The overall shape of the body will not change much as GM said they wanted to put as much of the production car in the concept as possible. My guess is that there will be a slight change in the tail-lights to make them a bit more prominent, and the fender flares may be turned down just a bit, but only from 11 to 10 if you know what I mean.
- Wheel sizes will likely decrease on lesser models, but word is that GM wants to sell the car with 20" off the showroom floor to keep the concept's proportions. That is still being worked out...
- The interior will look like the concepts, but it won't be exactly the same. I'd expect the same standard radios, HVAC controls, etc out of the Corvette that the Camaro has always gotten, along with a presumed heavy amount of traded pieces between the Commodore/G8 as well.
- We won't see the special version of the LS2 in the Camaro that the concept had, but probably the L76 out of the G8, and then the "normal" LS2 out of the Corvette in SS form.

...Basically what it comes down to is that if you can replace many of the parts in the car with what already exists from the Corvette, XLR, ('08) CTS, and G8 GT, you can get a pretty good idea of what will work and what won't.

* On the Challenger *

- The body, according to DCX, will be almost identical to the concept version. Given how many prototypes have been built, and the fact that the car will reportedly be available before the end of the year on the "new" LY chassis, there won't be much to change. The stripes will be there, probably just regular paint, and the wheels will probably be 20" just like the concept.
- Powerplants will likely go unchanged as well, a "base" Challenger R/T with the 5.7L HEMI and a 6-speed manual, and the optional Challenger T/A (or maybe SRT-8) with the 6.1L HEMI and a six-speed manual.
- This thing will be heavy, and that won't change from concept to production car either. But it will be interesting to see how it all works out.

 

[skip0110]

I was reading that some of the Zeta redesign was going towards suspension modifications with the aim of fitting 22s without compromising turning radius or handling. So the impression I get is that GM wants to be as close as practically possible to the concept.

Also I think the pillarless windows won't make it, sadly.

EDIT: Treed.

EDIT 2: Question for YSSMAN: The Challenger concept was really long, with over 12" of stretch in the wheelbase relative to a standard LX chassis. Now the 300C is a pretty damn long car, is LY going to be even longer?

 

[1X83Z]

WTF is that Mercedes thing?

The F400 Carving. God only knows.

As for #5, the CL class Mercedes has no B-Pillar, so why not for the Camaro and Challenger?

As ///M-Spec said, it's super expensive. I'd be surprised to see anything come out under $40k with no B-pillar.

 

[YSSMAN]

EDIT 2: Question for YSSMAN: The Challenger concept was really long, with over 12" of stretch in the wheelbase relative to a standard LX chassis. Now the 300C is a pretty damn long car, is LY going to be even longer?

This is something that I do not know a whole lot about, as DCX really isn't a company I read up on too often. I really haven't heard a lot about the LY chassis is some time, however they are saying now that the Challenger will get a spin-off of the LX/LY chassis called LC. That will have a shorter wheelbase as compared to the full-size sedans, but will be about the same in width overall.

...Think about the difference between the GM Y-Body (Corvette, XLR) and Kappa structure (Solstice, Sky, GT) and you'll get the idea...

---

On the whole, LY will probably be similar in size to the current LX platform, but a built-in range of sizes will have to occur given the 300C Long-Wheelbase that should be available by now.

 

[Metar]

The F400 Carving. God only knows.

Correct. Funny I read about it 6 years ago... I think it was unveiled at the 2001 Tokyo carshow, with the concept of the car being in its name - Carving. Pretty much of a technological showcase it was - a system that changes camber during a turn, from a few positive degrees all the way to extreme 20 negative degrees, if needed. Results: They reached 1.25g during testing - that's 30% more than the best Mercs ever will...

 

[1X83Z]

They reached 1.25g during testing - that's 30% more than the best Mercs ever will...

Hell, it's 35% better than an F430. That's crazy; I didn't know that at all. Suddenly its idiotic styling is masked by an intelligent design.

 

[stumpydino]

sometimes the production design isnt as crisp or dynamic as the concept, depends on regulations and whatnot. they are reasonably similar, like the audi le mans quattro concept and the R8, iv always liked the concept that inspired the s2000 if theres a good idea or a good shape that they love in their design they will do their best to replicate it

 

[Scaff]

Hell, it's 35% better than an F430. That's crazy; I didn't know that at all. Suddenly its idiotic styling is masked by an intelligent design.

It's something that Merc have done a couple of times before, which is produce a concept car that they have no intention of turning into a production car. Rather they are rolling experimental test-beds that they make public as concepts.

The F400 Carving was, as mentioned, a testbed for the camber system, similarly the C111 was a testbed for rotary engines.

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/12/18/rotary-powered-mercedes-benz-c111-concept/

and the Bionic, for aerodynamics based on fish (not kidding at all).

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2050607.004/country/gcf

Regards

Scaff

 

[TopHat]

Those wheels look like sliced Avocados...

 

[Metar]

I finally found a link as well: F400 Carving Concept

And I quote:

Active camber control boosts the research vehicle's maximum lateral acceleration to 1.28 g, meaning that the concept study outperforms current sports cars by some 28 percent.

Really a shame they didn't implement this in the SLR. Or the AMGs...

Though, I'm really interested in the physics and stuff behind that Avocado-Fish Hybrid they created... A third of the weight, drag-coeffients so lower than anything ever seen in the automotive industry, and increased rigity - all leading towards improved mileage, as well.

And is it just me, or does that C111 Concept look incredibly similar to an Isadera Imperator? Quite good-looking, I must say.