Concepts for player retention.

[MIE1992]

Unfortunately, I cannot recall all the various ways the GT games have employed various mechanics for further player retention, but here's what I could approximately remember:
-GT4 and GT5 both had the used car lists, though GT5's iteration was more or less a dumping ground for the PS2-era standard models, which also included many fan-favorites.
-I think both PS3-era games also used various bonuses for money and EXP as a login bonus, and could increase depending on how many days in a row you've logged in.
-In addition, there's also been birthday prizes in the PS3 games and in GTS.
-Finally, there's the daily workout bonus in GTS, as well as the MiEx.

First-off, I think any EXP/leveling system is almost entirely un-necessary. EXP as a game mechanic is meant to be a way of representing the otherwise abstract concept of experience. The fact that grinding is a thing in any game of any era that uses the mechanic seems antithetical to what EXP is meant to represent. Repetitive tasks, more often than not, does not translate to a higher degree of skill nor knowledge, and especially if one isn't learning from their mistakes.

Next, I had some thoughts on birthday prizes. Instead of obtaining a completely random car (GTS) or a car that has your birth-year as its model year (GT5), I propose that a random commemorative model should be the prize. This still leaves quite a variety of cars to be potential birthday gifts, such as the Ferrari F40, the Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary, the Bugatti EB110, the Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) LM Limited, the McLaren F1 LM, and so on.

Moving on, instead of login bonuses or daily workouts, I was thinking there could be more of a weekly or monthly reward instead, which may work better with people's busy schedules. In fact, there could be three tiers of rewards: daily, weekly, and monthly. The monthly prize could be a voucher for a car from Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.X if its value is between 500k and 1 million credits, or between N600 and N1000. The weekly voucher could be for a car from Gr.B, Gr.3, Gr.X if its value is between 100k and 500k credits, or between N300 and N500. Finally, the daily voucher could be a car from Gr.4, Gr.X if its value is under 100k, or between N100 and N200.

As for actually obtaining these rewards, I propose that each benchmark - daily, weekly, and monthly - could be based on a specific series of distances. So the monthly reward's distance could be based on a famous endurance race, like the Daytona 500 or the Suzuka 1000km, or the length of a specific road. Maybe the monthly reward could be for a cumulative 24h of driving time? That'd make sense - it'd total to a little under 1h per day on average.

 

[Magog]

Just let me sell gift cars and I'll be happy.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

If the core of the game is good, there is no need for gimmicky player retaining stuff. Just look at any of the big MMORPGs.

In past GTs, players stay because of the sandbox aspect of the game. Lots of cars + tuning + tracks = endless combos to race and have fun with.

In GTS, obviously content is lighter than previous games, even with all the new cars/tracks they added in updates. The main draw is the daily/FIA races. Unfortunately, there's less people interested in competitive online racing than those in the sandbox aspect, so I'd expect GTS player numbers to stabilise below what previous games were (around 70k according to kudosprime).

For the next GT, I'd expect PD to have more content at launch to satisfy the sandbox players, and also keep the FIA races to satisfy the racers. Win-win for both camps if they get it right and I expect player numbers to be back at what it was 👍

 

[ShiftingGears]

More features. Adding five cars per update doesnt change much.

What features?

• Drag Racing update utilising 400-1000m of SSRX with proper timing.

• Shuffle Racing

• League Features. Manually tracking series results is just crap. Make it easy for the hardcore players.

• Re-categorisation of the racing classes

Two more ovals with a generic stock car would make for a great platform.

 

[TonyJZX]

When it comes down to it, GT5 and 6 had more content and they seemed to do updates that engaged people more? The login bonus, the seasonals, it feels like it was more dynamic than whatever is happening now.

So they release a monthly DLC and there's some buzz for maybe a week and then...

Let's put it like this... where's the upcoming monthly update speculations thread?

After giving us 5 cars its a bit... eh.

 

[MIE1992]

If the core of the game is good, there is no need for gimmicky player retaining stuff.

Come to think of it, I agree. But I do like the idea I had, of the birthday cars limited to being a commemorative model of some sort.

 

[ARTAsean]

The prize car system in GTS is definitely a departure from previous games. No prize cars for the entirety of GT League - that’s strange.

Also, no rewards for level 50 (or even 45, or 40.) Not that you even need them, as grinding to level 50 earns you enough credits to buy the entire car roster twice over.

That being said, I don’t think a few more bonuses here and there is enough to keep players around, especially with a polarizing game like GT Sport.

 

[sundaydriving]

For the obsessives - tracks, cars and tracks. ad infinitum.

For everyone else, more fun - so add in shuffle races, etc. I miss those.

 

[Keith2324]

How about a reporting system that actually works. There are far to many "bad" drivers out there who only want to wreck everyone else's races. There should be a way to send video evidence of egregious acts to a PD representative who could take care of the transgressors. That would be a good start.

Keith.

 

[sanrensho]

Here's a concept: Don't ask your older, loyal, fiscally-experienced, not-born-yesterday fanbase to pay today for what they used to get for free.
That might work with the chicks, big fella, but not with me.

 

[Sander 001]

Here's a concept: Don't ask your older, loyal, fiscally-experienced, not-born-yesterday fanbase to pay today for what they used to get for free.
That might work with the chicks, big fella, but not with me.

Said this before but I also find it kind of insulting that they're using slot machine psychology in the form of their daily spinners.

 

[O604]

Make Daily Races simpler. I think they should have just duplicated GT League races for online play.

Essentially make Sports Mode multi-player GT League. This would make the jump from single player to Sports Mode easier for most. It would make preparing for races easier for all. And it would equal things up between those who can and can't spend time learning new tracks. All of that I think would help in retaining players.

 

[Goetz]

Shuffle mode and seasonals.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Make Daily Races simpler. I think they should have just duplicated GT League races for online play.

Essentially make Sports Mode multi-player GT League. This would make the jump from single player to Sports Mode easier for most. It would make preparing for races easier for all. And it would equal things up between those who can and can't spend time learning new tracks. All of that I think would help in retaining players.

I don't understand what you mean by making the daily races simpler. 70% of them are either Group 3 or Group 4 with tuning prohibited, with half of them having no tyre wear or fuel consumption at all.

 

[dabz343]

I think the train has left the station. GTS will have a rather quick ending compared to legacy titles. Why? Because of it's focused gameplay, players who leave don't look back. I thoroughly enjoyed GTS--being part of the 1st GTS FIA race ever was exciting and felt awesome to be part of. But after 18 months of enjoyment, GTS is starting to fade. I still enjoy an occasional Sunday track day, but I'm bored--and this is death to any game.

The only thing I can imagine helping to bring back fans like me is, if PD/GTS could be more community focused. Leverage the social aspects to help drivers find each other and enjoy GTS together. IF PD could streamline the process of composing, joining, running, maintaining and perhaps even stewarding--like the real life FIA--then I think fans could find a community of like-minded players and enjoy being on track together.

This is how it's done IRL, the formula is replicable through GTS...if only PD could reframe their mindset and build a Racing Community rather than a racing game. I've said this for many months, but I think based on PD's operations of GTS, PD is inherently an introvert--perhaps even a hermit--and just is reticent to come out of their comfort zone. Sad, cause GTS could have been "The Platform" for PD...now they left the door wide open for competitors.

If you do not believe in the monetary value of acquiring and retaining users as a core function of a digital business--here is a chance for you to be open-minded and allow economics of scale to induce some composed decision-making. Good luck PDDDDDDDD!

 

[O604]

I don't understand what you mean by making the daily races simpler. 70% of them are either Group 3 or Group 4 with tuning prohibited, with half of them having no tyre wear or fuel consumption at all.

I think those are simple if you play often. Know the cars, the track, the rule details.... I don't think it's simple for new comers or more casual racers. For anyone starting out and casual players I think it would be an easier, less intimidating if Daily Races were copies of what's already available in GT league.

Right now Daily Races are like an intro to FIA races. Instead I think it should be more like an intro to online racing.

This is on the topic of player retention. Not what I think would be more fun.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I think those are simple if you play often. Know the cars, the track, the rule details.... I don't think it's simple for new comers or more casual racers. For anyone starting out and casual players I think it would be an easier, less intimidating if Daily Races were copies of what's already available in GT league.

Right now Daily Races are like an intro to FIA races. Instead I think it should be more like an intro to online racing.

This is on the topic of player retention. Not what I think would be more fun.

But Group 4 and Group 3 are already in GT League. Do you mean simple as in, easier to drive?

 

[O604]

But Group 4 and Group 3 are already in GT League. Do you mean simple as in, easier to drive?

Gr. 3&4 races that are already in GT league, yes. Easy to access.

Gr. 3 & 4 every week on different tracks, no. Harder for casual players.

 

[AlanH49]

It’s time PD started taking more direct feedback from players. The community is here to help and make the title better for everyone.

 

[TonyJZX]

I think the train has left the station. GTS will have a rather quick ending compared to legacy titles. Why? Because of it's focused gameplay, players who leave don't look back. I thoroughly enjoyed GTS--being part of the 1st GTS FIA race ever was exciting and felt awesome to be part of. But after 18 months of enjoyment, GTS is starting to fade. I still enjoy an occasional Sunday track day, but I'm bored--and this is death to any game.

A very lucid post.

However I think to PD its a double edged sword. They're probably looking at dwindling numbers as an opportunity to throw their momentum behind "GT7 exclusively on PS5"...

I can see it now. The hype behind a true "7" successor on a new console.

I dont think they will want to make a GT Sport II on dual platform PS4/5 because of what you just said.

Its not quite planned obsolescence but I agree that there's not much way for PD to go to try to get more momentum back into GT Sport... I feel they could release track after track month after month with six cars and it wouldnt be enough.

It would be enough for me but obviously people here arent super representative of PD fans "out there".

You can look over to the other side to see what they've done to FOrza 7.

Now this game is like 18 months old? More? Feels like 2017 to me.

And they revamped the menus and tossed out all the really hated gameplay mechanics.

They are doing this Indy update which is something but that title too has to carry the torch until the next console.

Its just a good comparison as both GT Sport and Forza 7 are in 'legacy mode' trying to keep interest until a new console, new title.

 

[dabz343]

I just hope PD will succeed...they deserve some recognition for trying to do something different and I believe what they accomplished with GTS should remain part of their future plans for GT7. It's definitely a challenge to break out of the norm and invent something that exceeds conventional wisdom, but having said that, I wonder if PD has the ability to rally around identifying what hasn't worked and be optimistic about realizing the untapped potential.

The nip and tuck alterations others have already mentioned will certainly be welcomed improvements for GTS, but I hope PD widens it's lens and seizes the opportunity that rest with millions of users that are currently choosing to tune out. I believe they can, but I suspect it will take some heavy lifting--beginning with mastering how to create a network effect--and perhaps a key may be in diversifying their organization as a start.

Sometimes, a successful formula that gets you to a point in time is NOT the formula that will succeed in the future. Look at all the companies that have been put to rest by consumers voting with their wallets. They all have one thing in common--they waited too long to change their core business strategy.

Whatever PD is strategizing for PS5, it's an innovate or die scenario. The competition has caught up and there are numerous threats that are just as capable of delivering a respectable racing title. As someone wise once said--be wary of trade-offs, the only meaningful answer to any problem is, innovation.

 

[MIE1992]

I wouldn't write off GTS just yet. It seems very clear to me that there's still a sizable amount of content to come to GTS in particular. Simply showing a car/track being scanned by PD (e.g. that blue Zonda, or the Prius GT300) could go either way as far as content for GTS or "GT7" goes, but there's still some stuff that could be coming:

-The fact that some GTS-original courses still haven't obtained additional layouts, namely Colorado Springs, Sardegna, and Alsace. Furthermore, additional courses (both real-world and original) from both previous games, and entirely new courses (see: Autopolis) could also be coming!

-In spite of Gr.B being modeled on the real-world Group B rally cars, there are still tons of cars that existed in this group that could be added to GTS, including many models that've already appeared in the series. Ideally, their homologation road cars would appear as N-series cars, too. And that's before we get into the fact that dirt driving and Gr.B could obtain a lot of updates in the future.
-The VGT project isn't nearly done yet, and I doubt the Audi VGT was the last one that'll appear in GTS.

-A class for drifting cars could be formed, with that 370Z if it makes it into GTS, and that BR-Z. And as a result, drift attacks could return, too.

-I had heard a rumor that the TS020 is gonna be in a future update, but more recently, I had heard that there's a lot of "interesting stuff" on the way, the latter of which from a guy who attended the Paris FIAGTC event. He likely can't say too much due to NDAs, but I'd never assume GTS is done updating. At most, it may've skipped a month at a time, so far, and even then, that's only happened around twice.

-Lotus still wants to get back into the series, and I wonder if more championships could appear other than the FIAGTC and the Supra series, much like we had seen in the demo footage where there was a championship for the Mazda Roadster.

-Finally, there was that excerpt from one of GTPlanet's interviews with Kaz at the Paris FIAGTC event, where Kaz remains undecided whether to add more offline content to GTS, or "GT7." Or maybe both?

 

[Tired Tyres]

I wouldn't write off GTS just yet. It seems very clear to me that there's still a sizable amount of content to come to GTS in particular. Simply showing a car/track being scanned by PD (e.g. that blue Zonda, or the Prius GT300) could go either way as far as content for GTS or "GT7" goes, but there's still some stuff that could be coming:

-The fact that some GTS-original courses still haven't obtained additional layouts, namely Colorado Springs, Sardegna, and Alsace. Furthermore, additional courses (both real-world and original) from both previous games, and entirely new courses (see: Autopolis) could also be coming!

-In spite of Gr.B being modeled on the real-world Group B rally cars, there are still tons of cars that existed in this group that could be added to GTS, including many models that've already appeared in the series. Ideally, their homologation road cars would appear as N-series cars, too. And that's before we get into the fact that dirt driving and Gr.B could obtain a lot of updates in the future.
-The VGT project isn't nearly done yet, and I doubt the Audi VGT was the last one that'll appear in GTS.

-A class for drifting cars could be formed, with that 370Z if it makes it into GTS, and that BR-Z. And as a result, drift attacks could return, too.

-I had heard a rumor that the TS020 is gonna be in a future update, but more recently, I had heard that there's a lot of "interesting stuff" on the way, the latter of which from a guy who attended the Paris FIAGTC event. He likely can't say too much due to NDAs, but I'd never assume GTS is done updating. At most, it may've skipped a month at a time, so far, and even then, that's only happened around twice.

-Lotus still wants to get back into the series, and I wonder if more championships could appear other than the FIAGTC and the Supra series, much like we had seen in the demo footage where there was a championship for the Mazda Roadster.

-Finally, there was that excerpt from one of GTPlanet's interviews with Kaz at the Paris FIAGTC event, where Kaz remains undecided whether to add more offline content to GTS, or "GT7." Or maybe both?

Nope. Kaz said that the extra solo stuff was for the next game.

There are four more tracks to come. Goodwood we know about, the other three others we don't know the identity of other than none of them are Spa.

Other modes? Very much doubt they would spend that much effort on this game when the bulk of PD must be deep into GT7 development.

 

[AlanH49]

Nope. Kaz said that the extra solo stuff was for the next game.

There are four more tracks to come. Goodwood we know about, the other three others we don't know the identity of other than none of them are Spa.

Other modes? Very much doubt they would spend that much effort on this game when the bulk of PD must be deep into GT7 development.

I’m not sure we know exactly how many tracks are coming. Three is what Tidgney mentioned he was aware of. With Goodwood being an additional surprise to him. Of course, we could also get additional layouts, or different times of day.

I’m one of those who believes GT7 will be a launch window PS5 title. But I wouldn’t bet against PD producing a GTS patch to take advantage of the hardware. Beyond your ‘standard’ backwards compatibility improvements.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I’m not sure we know exactly how many tracks are coming. Three is what Tidgney mentioned he was aware of. With Goodwood being an additional surprise to him. Of course, we could also get additional layouts, or different times of day.

I’m one of those who believes GT7 will be a launch window PS5 title. But I wouldn’t bet against PD producing a GTS patch to take advantage of the hardware. Beyond your ‘standard’ backwards compatibility improvements.

I doubt very much that GT7 will be remotely close to PS5 launch personally. I think PD will patch GTS but anything beyond changing from checkerbox 4K to actual 4K would be setting ourselves for disapointment.

I'm sure they will continue to add to GTS but sooner or later that will stop when it becomes all hands to the pumps to get GT7 out.

 

[Stencedaddy]

I think those are simple if you play often. Know the cars, the track, the rule details.... I don't think it's simple for new comers or more casual racers. For anyone starting out and casual players I think it would be an easier, less intimidating if Daily Races were copies of what's already available in GT league.

Right now Daily Races are like an intro to FIA races. Instead I think it should be more like an intro to online racing.

This is on the topic of player retention. Not what I think would be more fun.

Sport mode isnt really for casual players. Ive said before they need to make a copy of sport mode with different or no ratings and call it Casual. Making sport mode have easier races and ones already in GT League is boring for anyone who plays frequently. What you want is a casual noob friendly races which dont fit into sport mode. Daily Races should be an intro to FIA. Also this is why ratings exist. If you are new or casual then you have a lower rating and race with the same people.

Why change the mode frequent players race in just to keep the casuals/new players around who dont play often? I really dont see how making sport mode more repetitive with races already in gt league has any positive effect.

 

[Veinz]

The lobbies are for the more casual crowd. Race A and B are already relatively easy races though, I doubt making them even more simple than they already are would bring more players.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

They're already doing a great job of retaining online players relative to their previous games. If they wanted to do more they just need to make a bigger deal over their DLC content. They should build various racing competitions around new content. One Makes featuring new cars and multiple class competitions on one course to crown the best driver of that new course, etc. Even modest prizes like unique limited ed. champion liveries, outfits, etc. would draw people to compete.

Where they're really losing out is in retaining offline players. Campaign updates are not frequent enough and should also feature new assets in ways that celebrate the new content. At a bare minimum provide AI race iterations of the weekly race choices so that non-sport players can at least enjoy something different every week.

 

[sturk0167]

Have at least 1 Sport Mode race that changes the car/track combo daily. That way, someone who may only be able to race on weekends, doesn't have worry about getting destroyed by the people who've already perfected the race by doing 200 qualifying laps and 50 races.