Confusing times reeintering "sim" racing

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Daddybird

474
Australia
Australia
So, been traveling and working as a Backy for a while now (5 years) but now I've finally got the whole "wife and house" thing going on, now.... something is missing. While I was flying and driving across several continents I would've never thought my desire for a DFP and GT4 would be so severe.... Yes I did buy Forza 4 and an Xbox (as I was very disappointed with GT5) but it was more a casual escapade than a true surrender to previous desires.
The desire to feel GTR2, GT Legends, GT6(?) (or at least the sensation I had driving several cars around the ring with my DFP sold GT6 to me) rFactor etc makes me want to reenter.

Now, as you might find in my profile I did want to buy a T500RS... only to realize afterwards it came with no shifter. I believed a G27 was $400 but to now find out its $280 on Ebay... this makes possibility immense, especially because I had such good experiences with Logitech before (I trashed (and my friends) the **** out of that DFP and it never did anything wrong in those two or three years) I might go and start off with a G27 to see how I go and at the same time also getting one of those nice cockpits.

For $200 I can also buy a Fanatec Carrera wheel.... but don't know much about it and I hear immensely mixed reviews and thoughts about it. And this topic might only increase that!

Where to start? :)
 
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Daddybird
So, been traveling and working as a Backy for a while now (5 years) but now I've finally got the whole "wife and house" thing going on now.... something is missing. While I was flying and driving across several continent I would've never though my desire for a DFP and GT4 would be so severe.... Yes I did buy Forza 4 and an Xbox (as I was very disappointed with GT5) but it was more a casual escapade than a true surrender to previous desires.
The desire to feel GTR2, GT Legends, GT6(?) (or at least the sensation I had driving several cars around the ring with my DFP sold GT6 to me) rFactor etc makes me want to reenter.

Now, as you might find in my profile I did want to buy a T500RS... only to realize afterwards it came with no shifter. I believed a G27 was $400 but to now find out its $280 on Ebay... this makes possibility immense, especially because I had such good experiences with Logitech before (I trashed (and my friends) the **** out of that DFP and never did anything wrong in those two or three years) I might go and start off with a G27 to see how I go and at the same time also getting one of those nice cockpits.

For $200 I can also buy a Fanatec Carrera wheel.... but don't know much about it and I hear immensely mixed reviews and thoughts about it. And this topic might only increase that!

Where to start? :)
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OK I guess I'll start the inevitable avalanche of questions off with:

What the heck is a Backy?
 
Start with the G27, only if you plan on starting with GT6 or the PC, as it is not xbox compatible. it sounds like you are on the right path though. Wheel and a rig to mount to are where you should begin. Then as finances allow, start doiong upgrades. The G27m, has a slew of mods available (so do most of the better wheels), I suggest the GTEye brake spring to begin with. Start looking into tactile feedback, and what other options you have open to you. Especially in the PC sim side. There are all sorts of neat things in that regard you can do.
 
Rallywagon
Start with the G27, only if you plan on starting with GT6 or the PC, as it is not xbox compatible. it sounds like you are on the right path though. Wheel and a rig to mount to are where you should begin. Then as finances allow, start doiong upgrades. The G27m, has a slew of mods available (so do most of the better wheels), I suggest the GTEye brake spring to begin with. Start looking into tactile feedback, and what other options you have open to you. Especially in the PC sim side. There are all sorts of neat things in that regard you can do.
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I agree with all of this but skip the spring and go straight to the AP electrix Loadcell.
 
The best times are coming soon my friend... Not so much on the hardware end of things (wheels, shifters, pedals, etc) but more on the experience and immersion enhancing components. We are really starting to see motion rigs become more and more affordable, along with tactile becoming more integrated and seamless. I think the biggest change you will find since you've been gone will be with the display capabilies and all of the sim racing game designers adding support for virtual reality headsets early next year. Its such an exciting time to be a sim racer! In case you haven't been completely updated yet, here is your topics of discussion: SimVibe, Oculus Rift, G6 Driving Simulator, Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, Fanatec CSS
 
This Fanatec bundle is much superior to a G27 and comes at $260. A steal, really. It's a better and more realistic wheel, belt ffb, already load cell break system (no need to invest more or "mod), and overall the pedals are incredibly better (and more customizable). Plus, it comes with both a sequential and a H shifter.

[edit] And don't confuse the CSR pedals (*****) with the CSR Elite pedals (gold!). This bundle comes with the Elite! [/edit]

I shouldn't be helping Fanatec though, because since I'm in Europe I can't buy this bundle. If I could, even for €269, I'd snap it right now.
 
luizsilveira
This Fanatec bundle is much superior to a G27 and comes at $260. A steal, really. It's a better and more realistic wheel, belt ffb, already load cell break system (no need to invest more or "mod), and overall the pedals are incredibly better (and more customizable)
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I'd call it different, not necessarily better. Neither wheel is perfect, and they simply have different compromises. The Fanatec offers more adjustability and a smoother belt drive, whereas the G27 is faster, freer spinning and the leather rim is nicer. The Fanatec dual shifters is nice but they are very plastic and make a very loud click when you change gear.

Also note that Fanatec's clamp system on that wheel is not great, you really have no choice but to hard mount it. Logitech clamps work very nicely on desks if you don't want to hard mount them.
 
I would second the Fanatec Bundle. I had a GT3 RS before upgrading to the CSR Elite and it was a very nice wheel! Great for an introduction to simracing, and the onboard tuning is really useful.

Don't forget that it comes with the CSR Elite pedals, which are load cell based. Load cell is far superior to most other braking systems, as it gives the feel of a real car with pressure dictating your braking force.
 
skazz
I'd call it different, not necessarily better. Neither wheel is perfect, and they simply have different compromises. The Fanatec offers more adjustability and a smoother belt drive, whereas the G27 is faster, freer spinning and the leather rim is nicer. The Fanatec dual shifters is nice but they are very plastic and make a very loud click when you change gear.

Also note that Fanatec's clamp system on that wheel is not great, you really have no choice but to hard mount it. Logitech clamps work very nicely on desks if you don't want to hard mount them.
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Not for anything but I have both, the clamping system is definitely better on the g27, but with that said my CSR clamp worked perfectly fine clamped to my table. (With a lot if drifting out on it) sometimes it needed adjustability, but it never just came off or anything like that.

The fanatec shifters are plasticky, and don't last as long as my g27 shifter did, but they had a lot more tension and shifts felt better. I had to switch back to the g27 shifter and it felt extremely loose and gimmicky. (But worked lol)

I do like g27s rim much better but I would say the CSR ffb feels MUCH stronger in comparison to the g27, and spins much faster. But both still feel great

I would bring to your attention though as you upgrade, the fanatec kit, you can buy other shifters compatible with it (fanatec clubsport shifter), or upgraded pedal sets. With basherboards adapters, this is expanded further (I use a g27 shifter as my handbrake and a th8rs as my hs shifter now, all connected through my csr wheel)

The g27 is a great package, but you can't "mix and match" better gear. This doesn't matter as much if your only racing PC games.
But what I personally love the most about my rig now is the modularity it has offered me, everything goes trough my wheel, meaning setup is simple and works on my pc, ps3, and 360.
 
We're talking about the gt3 RS Porsche wheel, not the Forza-branded CSR. I have a Porsche wheel and understand that they spin slower than the CSR due to having a heavier rim. But I may well have underestimated the clamp, I'll give it a go sometime soon, see if I can mount it onto a table.

For the money, the Fanatec set is very good value indeed, but just be clear that if you like free spinning wheels (especially for instance for rallying) the Porsche wheels aren't necessarily better than a G27.
 
skazz
We're talking about the gt3 RS Porsche wheel, not the Forza-branded CSR. I have a Porsche wheel and understand that they spin slower than the CSR due to having a heavier rim. But I may well have underestimated the clamp, I'll give it a go sometime soon, see if I can mount it onto a table.
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The Fanatec bundle comes with the GT3 RS, the wheel I had before the CSR.

They spin slower than both the G27 and the CSR, however Drift Mode can speed it up a little when needed. The clamp is alright as long as you have a thick desk.
 
That Fanatec bundle is offered in Australia only with the standard pedals and without a shifter, so that's not interesting because I can get a G27 for the same price. It's a shame that Fanatec is almost 60% more expensive in Australia. I do still play Forza 4 and am planning on getting a PS3 to play GT6 on and I plan on getting back in to PC racing so the Forza branded wheel would be very interesting ($299 bundle with standard pedals and NO shifter). Very expensive and not sure if Forza alone is worth it (it's not compatible with Xbone and Forza 5).

Now I'm in limbo if I should get a wheel for FM4 but that means that I have to go with Fanatec and it's overprices (in AU) products. Thanks for all the replies so far!
 
eKretz
OK I guess I'll start the inevitable avalanche of questions off with:

What the heck is a Backy?
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I'm assuming Daddybird was working while backpacking.


Daddybird, I have seen the G27 for sale as low as $195 new in Oz.
 
Daddybird
Now I'm in limbo if I should get a wheel for FM4 but that means that I have to go with Fanatec and it's overprices (in AU) products. Thanks for all the replies so far!
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I bought the GT2, plus shifters and Clubsport pedals for Forza 3 a few months before Forza 4 release. I had plenty of fun over 2 years with a fully multiplatform wheel switching between Forza 4 and GT5.....

However in hindsight after the whole Xbox One incompatibility saga I kind of regret that choice. While Forza 3/4 was fun, it was not able to capture my attention to the same extent as GT5, and the online community for F4 dwindled very quickly compared to the tens of thousands still doing GT5 seasonals 3 years after release.
I could have bought a T500RS for GT5 back in 2011 for the same money as the Fanatec multiplatform kit..... Now that I bought one anyway I realise just how much better the FFB is on the Thrustmaster....
 
LeMansAid
I'm assuming Daddybird was working while backpacking.


Daddybird, I have seen the G27 for sale as low as $195 new in Oz.
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Wow, where did you see that!? Cheapest I can find is $250 at Harvey Norman. Was that a Xmas sale? As I did see some for just over $200 go a week or so ago.
 
skazz
I bought the GT2, plus shifters and Clubsport pedals for Forza 3 a few months before Forza 4 release. I had plenty of fun over 2 years with a fully multiplatform wheel switching between Forza 4 and GT5.....

However in hindsight after the whole Xbox One incompatibility saga I kind of regret that choice. While Forza 3/4 was fun, it was not able to capture my attention to the same extent as GT5, and the online community for F4 dwindled very quickly compared to the tens of thousands still doing GT5 seasonals 3 years after release.
I could have bought a T500RS for GT5 back in 2011 for the same money as the Fanatec multiplatform kit..... Now that I bought one anyway I realise just how much better the FFB is on the Thrustmaster....
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I think you're right. Fanatec wouldn't be my fist choice anyway and racing Forza 4 with the pad will probably good enough for me anyway untill I have GT6 (FM4 is actually pretty good with the pad).
How much better is the Thrustmaster compared to the G27? I heard it's the cream of the crop but the price is extreme, especially here in AUS. And does anyone here uses cockpits? And how much does it increase the driving experience?
 
Daddybird
Wow, where did you see that!? Cheapest I can find is $250 at Harvey Norman. Was that a Xmas sale? As I did see some for just over $200 go a week or so ago.
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You will never get a good price on anything at Harvey Norman, one of the most overpriced retailers in Aus. Checking online is your best bet.
 
Daddybird
How much better is the Thrustmaster compared to the G27? I heard it's the cream of the crop but the price is extreme, especially here in AUS. And does anyone here uses cockpits? And how much does it increase the driving experience?
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A good wheel needs a good driving setup. Yes, you can mount wheels to desks and they work, but a wheelstand or cockpit will be more comfortable and easier to get things configured exactly as you want.

Quantifying differences between wheels is not easy, but I'd say the step up from DFP to G27 in terms of quality will be massive (much better motors, pedals, paddles, shifter), the step up from the G27 to a T500RS won't be quite as large (motor difference is just as big, pedals and paddles are a clear but smaller upgrade, shifter is extra on the T500RS and needs a cockpit to mount it really). Where the T500RS really moves the game on compared to G27 is in feeling much more like a real car wheel: the smoothness combined with huge motor power makes it feel so much more real.

But the truth is that you can be just as fast with a DFGT, G27, Fanatec CSR/Porsche wheel or T500RS, the differences are just in how believable they are and how they show up differences between cars, suspension settings, tyres within the game. The more power and smoothness the better "resolution" a wheel has in showing all those little nuances which simulate the tyres, suspension and car weight transfer.
 
skazz
A good wheel needs a good driving setup. Yes, you can mount wheels to desks and they work, but a wheelstand or cockpit will be more comfortable and easier to get things configured exactly as you want.
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Negatory! It's nice to have, but not needed. Chris Hill, that fella that just got 2nd place in the American GTAcademy, races mostly in hotels on a DFGT with whatever bits of furnature they have for him to use. And a few of the top racers in the SNAIL league use those dinner tray things to clamp their wheel to. A good rig is nice, and adds immersion, however, like money, it doesn't equate to actual skill.
 
I don't see how what he said was wrong? He never said it will make you faster, just that it will be more comfortable and easier to setup how you like. All of witch are true.
 
We have done the TV Tray/Plastic Chair rig with my older wheels. It works fine until you get to the DFP/DFGT I'd say, then the 900 degree steering can play havoc with poor stability.
 

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