Consistency

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Craig.Kast
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Tagger68
Does anyone else struggle with it? I do.

In order to find the best tune for a car you have to be consistent in the way you drive a course in order to know your tendancies and those of the car. Two nights ago I went to bed fairly satisfied with the setup I had for my Mine's BNR GT. Last night though, it was like I was driving a totally different car even though it was the same car, same setup, and same course I spent so much time on recently.

What I noticed was that my entry angles, braking points, and acceleration through turns was different than the other night. So, I spent a lot of time in the litter in the 3 races I ran last night. It's my own fault. But, it made me wonder if my setup needs more tweaking. It probably does. But, finding the sweet spot setup requires consistent input to the controls every lap of every race or time trial.

Any other drivers out there struggling with this?
 
when i am tuning a car i usually do 5-6 laps before i get the feel of it, since each tune requires a different driving style. After 5-6 laps i usually manage to squeeze the last 95% out of a perfect lap. I note my time and then i make changes to the tune.

After you make a change to the tune pay close attention to your ghost, if you notice that you are falling away or gaining in certain spots, that is your sign of improvement. Also try to beat the lap time. If after 5-6 laps your laptime didnt improve, then your tune got worse. If it only improved marginally, try going back to the old tune to make sure that it wasnt just you driving better.

Its a very iterative process and you need to change one thing at a time. Sometimes i just give up and go race, but i know there is more left in there..

I read about some drivers doing 1.38-1.39 on fuji 750.. and i wonder wtf is wrong with me.. the best i managed was a 1.40.0xx in a GTR, and The Ford GT 06 wont go faster than 1.41.000 for me.. maybe its the car, maybe its me.
 
fasternfaster
when i am tuning a car i usually do 5-6 laps before i get the feel of it, since each tune requires a different driving style. After 5-6 laps i usually manage to squeeze the last 95% out of a perfect lap. I note my time and then i make changes to the tune.

After you make a change to the tune pay close attention to your ghost, if you notice that you are falling away or gaining in certain spots, that is your sign of improvement. Also try to beat the lap time. If after 5-6 laps your laptime didnt improve, then your tune got worse. If it only improved marginally, try going back to the old tune to make sure that it wasnt just you driving better.

Its a very iterative process and you need to change one thing at a time. Sometimes i just give up and go race, but i know there is more left in there..

I read about some drivers doing 1.38-1.39 on fuji 750.. and i wonder wtf is wrong with me.. the best i managed was a 1.40.0xx in a GTR, and The Ford GT 06 wont go faster than 1.41.000 for me.. maybe its the car, maybe its me.
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For me, I don't even know much in tuning.. and so I'm always using the settings from the tuners here. :p

Your point is really true, before tuning the car, the first thing to do is to test drive it serveral laps to see where the limits are. 👍 However, I don't have that much time spending on tuning the cars, so I usually copy the settings down and try them before taking the cars to race. I'd try to adjust the car till it suits my driving style. For example, the brake balance.

And referring to the Fuji PP750 race, I just can't imagine how can the guy finish the 3-lap race under 5 mins! I wonder what his lap time is... (he's driving with a GT-R.. plus the rubberband effect for the online race, he should be racing much much faster than an ordinary driver! :crazy:) The best I can do is 5'01, in a Ford GT '06. I think consistency is the key! 👍
 
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Are you comparing it to free run or an online race?

Some people on here believe that the RBE (Rubber Band Effect) has a BIG effect on the car. When you are miles out infront the car is made slower, grip levels lower etc so the other racers are able to catch up. If your at the back of the pack then grip can be higher, more power etc. Hope it helps.
 
fasternfaster
when i am tuning a car i usually do 5-6 laps before i get the feel of it, since each tune requires a different driving style. After 5-6 laps i usually manage to squeeze the last 95% out of a perfect lap. I note my time and then i make changes to the tune.

After you make a change to the tune pay close attention to your ghost, if you notice that you are falling away or gaining in certain spots, that is your sign of improvement. Also try to beat the lap time. If after 5-6 laps your laptime didnt improve, then your tune got worse. If it only improved marginally, try going back to the old tune to make sure that it wasnt just you driving better.

Its a very iterative process and you need to change one thing at a time. Sometimes i just give up and go race, but i know there is more left in there..

I read about some drivers doing 1.38-1.39 on fuji 750.. and i wonder wtf is wrong with me.. the best i managed was a 1.40.0xx in a GTR, and The Ford GT 06 wont go faster than 1.41.000 for me.. maybe its the car, maybe its me.
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Around 1.40.026 GTR for me too,so you are not alone.
 
Sometimes I just give up and go race too. Well, most of the time I do from a lack of patience. But, after spending a lot of wheel time with the BNR I know there's more the car can deliver even if I'm the driver. I'm going to search the tuning thread and if I don't find what I'm looking for I'll start a thread requesting tuning advice.

Staying on topic though, I find that when I race tired, I get sloppy. I wonder how professional drivers manage to run for hours without missing a step.

Most road course races are team-driven. And, there are rules restricting the amount of time a driver can be in a car before he must pit and give the car to his teammate. But, in NASCAR, those guys are behind the wheel for 3 hours in some races. With all the variables that impact a cars' handling and speed entering a turn or a corner, I am amazed that the top runners like Jeff Gordon manage to stay consistent in the inputs they give the car controls.

We're only playing a game here. I don't know if I could focus that much for an extended duration inside a fire suit after my feet and back started to feel like they were on fire from the oil cooler behind the seat or from the engine heat invading the floorboard space around the pedals. Ok, maybe I'm drifting off topic a bit. But, it makes me think about those guys.
 
I'm finding myself hitting 1:38 to high 1:37 in my Viper/Tuned and BNR34. My tunes available or, my suspension and most of my gearings. If you look in the tuning and settings section look for RVT (a fair bit down) im using max downforce now and different final gear, power and weight settings (minimum weight with the most power at that weight) Everything else is the same. Best so far with my Mines is 1:37.752 which was about my 4th lap of 5 done.
 
Im bad at Consistency because im an instinct driver rather then a....robot driver? Meaning I dont have a line I always follow and I dont have braking point referances that I always follow exp.( as soon as I pass the tree I start braking). I kinda see the turn coming and try and "feel" where I should brake. But when I look at a reply my braking points and line are usally close to each other, So I think you get into a rythem and focased and you start braking the same way at the same place without knowing it. But like I said if I was more of a "robot driver" (once again Im getting the term wrong just cant think of it) I would be faster.

Its why Im a better rally driver then track driver.
 
Memory drivers that what they are called.
 
The important thing (particularly with Fuji) is to think ahead, rather then is this the fastest way through THIS corner, it should be which is the fastest way round this corner which leaves me in the best position for the next.
 
I couldnt be bothered with tuning..only things I ever change are brake bias and I lower the car a bit..

Anyways..you just have to find a rythm and pace your comfortable with..Racing on your own it's easy to pick out landmarks for braking zones but after a while you dont even look out for those and it's more instinct which is something you need when your battling with a few people..you dont want to lose focus on where everyone is!! Learn the track first and then go racing.

The problem in a race though is that your braking points change constantly depending on whether you are racing alone or with 1,2,3 or 4 cars ahead of you..not only that some people brake later than others so you really need to keep adjusting on the fly which is why it's so important to know the track and especially the car your driving.

It's tough to pin point anything that would help..Some people can stay focused longer than others..It's really up to you to figure out what keeps you from getting a brain fart...it's different for everyone.
 
fasternfaster
when i am tuning a car i usually do 5-6 laps before i get the feel of it, since each tune requires a different driving style. After 5-6 laps i usually manage to squeeze the last 95% out of a perfect lap. I note my time and then i make changes to the tune.

After you make a change to the tune pay close attention to your ghost, if you notice that you are falling away or gaining in certain spots, that is your sign of improvement. Also try to beat the lap time. If after 5-6 laps your laptime didnt improve, then your tune got worse. If it only improved marginally, try going back to the old tune to make sure that it wasnt just you driving better.

Its a very iterative process and you need to change one thing at a time. Sometimes i just give up and go race, but i know there is more left in there..

I read about some drivers doing 1.38-1.39 on fuji 750.. and i wonder wtf is wrong with me.. the best i managed was a 1.40.0xx in a GTR, and The Ford GT 06 wont go faster than 1.41.000 for me.. maybe its the car, maybe its me.
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Very true, each car requires a different driving style. This is even more dramatic when you go from a fr vs mr vs awd, etc. There is no way you can tune a car so it has the exact same characteristics of another car; it is up to the driver to identify the strong and weak points of every car and to put together a lap that yields maximum potential.

As for the lap times, like someone mentioned, it all depends if you are talking about online practice laps or an actual race. I have ran 1:37.7x with the GTR in several practice runs, but in an actually race, never get close to that, unless I'm in last place w/help of boost (I think the fastest was 1:35.xxx).

Still in the process of trying to find another car besides the GTR (imo GTR is kind of boring) that can run at Fuji. The closest car I found was the Cilo that ran a 1:39.8xx in practice. Hopefully I can either get that car or a 599 tuned to eliminate snap over.
 
I think you should try to study the course for the best line, as opposed to studying the car for the best setup. Racing consistently and well starts with knowing the course, and nothing more. Once you know the general line that you're supposed to follow (it's going to be pretty much the same for every car until you start tuning very technically), you need to practice keeping the car on that line. You should decide braking points, apexes, acceleration points and all that stuff before you even pay attention to the car you're driving. You'll need to practice techniques like trail braking and late and early apexes to find the quickest way to connect all the corners.

Once you know the course well and are able to keep a stock car on the recommended line, then you can start tuning the car to get around that line faster.

But during a race it's very difficult to stay on that line because of the other cars. As you race you'll gain the ability to modify your line and technique on the fly and do what works best in whatever situation you may be in.

But ultimately, as others have mentioned, you're going to need to make changes based on the type of car you're driving eventually. One line works pretty good for everything, but when you're trying to perfect it, you're going to have to make changes in your apexes and braking and acceleration based on what you're driving. All I can say is that you'll figure it out eventually. Try racing other peoples' time trial ghosts in different cars to see how you need to change your technique when you're trying to get that last hundredth of a second.
 
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Tagger
With all the variables that impact a cars' handling and speed entering a turn or a corner, I am amazed that the top runners like Jeff Gordon manage to stay consistent in the inputs they give the car controls.

We're only playing a game here. I don't know if I could focus that much for an extended duration inside a fire suit after my feet and back started to feel like they were on fire from the oil cooler behind the seat or from the engine heat invading the floorboard space around the pedals. Ok, maybe I'm drifting off topic a bit. But, it makes me think about those guys.
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In my opinion, it's easier to be consistant in a real car on a circuit than it is to be consistant in the game. In real life you can feel your way into a bend as well as seeing it, maybe notice a certain bump where you know you turn in a set time after, you notice things in your peripheral vision that tell you to brake, you can feel how hard to brake, feel how hard to accelerate out etc.

Last time I drove on a circuit I set a lap time, then knocked a couple of seconds off, then another second, then half seconds, down to tenths, and then I set a fast lap that all my subsequent laps were within a tenth or two of.

If I try the same thing in GT chances are every so often I'll push a little too hard, do different lines and my laps don't end up anywhere near as consistant.

The only GT races I've ever been very consistant in were the endurance races in all the GTs, because I got into a rhythm, I maybe wasn't at 10/10ths the whole time and I could do a string of very similar lap times. 👍
 
When I'm comparing tunes I always spend about 80% of the time driving at 80% my limit. When you're not on the edge it gives you a much better opportunity to 'feel-out' the setup and that all important consistency factor is a lot easier to maintain. If I'm testing a tune I'll do about 4-5 laps like this then make a tweak and then try another couple of laps paying more attention to how it feels than what the lap record is.

Once I'm happy with the setup I can take the gloves off and try 2 or 3 laps flat out. If it feels good when I'm taking it easy I can be pretty much assured it'll feel good when it's up on it's tiptoes as well but backing off a bit to begin with really streamlines the process and removes that - "did I screw up or did the car screw up" - element of doubt.
 
It is a very time consuming project to get a car dialed in just the way you want ( per your driving style ) , and everybody here is correct in saying to go practice on the track you will be racing. You need to go practice the track in Arcade mode (time trial-just you and you alone on the track,learn your racing lines),then stay in Arcade mode and go to "single race mode" and learn your cars characteristics with other cars on the track,pay attention to the draft effect,it is a vital part of your driving skill,because you shoot around a car now your going a lot faster. Your braking point is changed,and your line is changed and your cars overall character has changed ,now you are forced to compensate for these changes,which is totally different from you being alone. It takes time and practice,and even then,we all will mis-cue on occasion,it's part of racing,it will come in time.
 
I can be pretty consistent with my lap times.

The main thing for me, is to pay attention to the speedometer. For instance, when I race a Fuji, I always to try to take turn 1 at 80 km/h, and turn 2 at 150 km/h and so on. Of course, controlling the car itself is crucial as well, but I suppose it's all about practice.

Your shifting could be affecting it as well. I'm sure that you times would vary if you, say, shortshifted every gear compared to getting the most speed out of each of your gears.
 
andrewyhy
For me, I don't even know much in tuning.. and so I'm always using the settings from the tuners here. :p

Your point is really true, before tuning the car, the first thing to do is to test drive it serveral laps to see where the limits are. 👍 However, I don't have that much time spending on tuning the cars, so I usually copy the settings down and try them before taking the cars to race. I'd try to adjust the car till it suits my driving style. For example, the brake balance.

And referring to the Fuji PP750 race, I just can't imagine how can the guy finish the 3-lap race under 5 mins! I wonder what his lap time is... (he's driving with a GT-R.. plus the rubberband effect for the online race, he should be racing much much faster than an ordinary driver! :crazy:) The best I can do is 5'01, in a Ford GT '06. I think consistency is the key! 👍
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I have lots of trouble with consistency, especially during the race. I am able to clock very close time in practice sessions, but ONLY after I have done 6-8 consecutive laps. After that, then I can play with the tune, but I really only know how to mess with the dampers and springs to get a little better balance (wish I knew how to use the other stuff). In the racing, I struggle much more with consistency 'cause I get nervous :nervous:

Anyway, I've seen you out there andrewyhy and you're driving great. The AWD car is so easy to drive compared to RWD and that's the only difference. If you're getting 5:01s with the GT06, you would easily have sub-5s with the GTR after a few practice laps. It's just not as much fun or rewarding as the RWD cars. I was only able to manage 5:02s with the GTLM. By the way, my lap times to get under 5s are high 1:37 to low 1:38 in practice. In the race, it's usually lap1 1:40.5 and laps 2 and 3 sub 1:40 with an occasional 1:38 (w/ no drafting). I put this in another post, but the other night, I ran a 4:59.5 and got beat by 2 seconds by MrCrazy777 (w/ no drafting). I'm sure there are a few Master Jedis out there doing that crap regularly. I'll just keep practicing. To the point of this whole thread, I completely agree that consistency in hitting your braking points and apexes is the key to all this, even before you start tuning.
 
cmpinberkeley
I have lots of trouble with consistency, especially during the race. I am able to clock very close time in practice sessions, but ONLY after I have done 6-8 consecutive laps. After that, then I can play with the tune, but I really only know how to mess with the dampers and springs to get a little better balance (wish I knew how to use the other stuff). In the racing, I struggle much more with consistency 'cause I get nervous :nervous:

Anyway, I've seen you out there andrewyhy and you're driving great. The AWD car is so easy to drive compared to RWD and that's the only difference. If you're getting 5:01s with the GT06, you would easily have sub-5s with the GTR after a few practice laps. It's just not as much fun or rewarding as the RWD cars. I was only able to manage 5:02s with the GTLM. By the way, my lap times to get under 5s are high 1:37 to low 1:38 in practice. In the race, it's usually lap1 1:40.5 and laps 2 and 3 sub 1:40 with an occasional 1:38 (w/ no drafting). I put this in another post, but the other night, I ran a 4:59.5 and got beat by 2 seconds by MrCrazy777 (w/ no drafting). I'm sure there are a few Master Jedis out there doing that crap regularly. I'll just keep practicing. To the point of this whole thread, I completely agree that consistency in hitting your braking points and apexes is the key to all this, even before you start tuning.
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Nice to meet you there! ;) We've been racing in the same room for quite a number of times that night (Hong Kong time), but it was my dad and I driving by turns in the Ford GT. (You should have noticed the difference in driving style between myself and my dad... which he sometimes just doesn't realize there're cars besides or behind him when entering the corner! :p)

Anyway, after driving the Ford GT for some time, I feel that driving a GT-R is simply boring.. with the help of the 4WD system, it runs with tonnes of grip into and out of the corners! You won't need to worrying about the tail of the car sliding out at any moments when exiting slow corners.. which IMO will ruin your driving skills of driving MR machines! :p

As practice makes perfect, practice the track repeatedly can definitely improve the consistency of hitting braking points and apexes! 👍 I think there's still room for me to improve, as I still can't do laps (in Fuji) consistently by lapping on the same racing line every lap, especially for turn 3 (the U-shape bend). I should practise the track more by learning the suggested racing line. 💡
 
Here's a couple of my thought's and observations from my own experience:

Like everyone else has said the first and most important thing for me has always been learn the track. For all the previous GT's, I always did all the license test first, since they almost all have a full course test and it's a great way to get the track down. The other thing I do is find someone who is a little faster than me and mirror their lines looking for time. Rinse and Repeat.

Then, like Lennon said, once you're comfortable with running by yourself, race in some traffic so you can get a feel for the draft, being stuck off your racing line, etc. After a while it's almost second nature as to how to adjust your preferred line when this happens but it only comes with lots of practice.

I like to think of myself as a "memory driver", but I find that for me to get my best times, I've got to run alot of laps. The problem with this is that in a race, they're just too short to find any rhythm. It seems to me in a 3-5 lap race, I became more of a reaction driver and my consistency will suffer. I find myself doing things I wouldn't normal do because the race is too short and I'm pushing more. I've given up trying to judge my consistency in race conditions. Things like the free run, the time trails, or the old WRS are where I feel I can truly judge how consistent and fast (more like slow, in my case :D) I really am.
 
Tagger
Does anyone else struggle with it?
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Not too much.

Once I've learned a course layout, I use the distance markers and visual cues around the track as a guide. Might take me a lap to adjust for each car's quirks, but once I get a feel for the steering/braking/gearing, I can usually turn laps within a second or so.
 
Thanks for all the good responses. I should start spending more solo time on the tracks. Mostly, I tune a car and go racing and base my adjustments on the results/how the car felt. I haven't considered running 80% laps to see how the car responds. I'll have to do that using the Suede's time trial arcade mode suggestion. Sometimes, I just want to go race and say the heck with all the prep work. Thing is, it's the prep work that makes racing so satisfying in the end.
 
One trick conserning tuning the over and understearing is that in case a car undersears it often helps softing up the rear dampers and vice versa.

Close and clean racing - ccr guy!
 
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