Control.

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rsmithdrift

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So I was wondering......
How do you guys know if and when you are in control or not??
How do you define control anyways??

This question was brought to me by a friend at school who I was showing drifting to for the first time and we got into a debate about control over the car. He was saying that I was totally out of control the whole time, and I felt like I was in control the whole time. Who is right??

I think that the car was doing exactly what I wanted it to do and that meant that I was in control. He, like many others, including the GT driving instructions in the manuals and any good racing/driving school will say, said that I was out of control because all 4 tires were sliding around the turn and you cannot physically control a slipping tire, you only have 100% available grip and if you go over that then you are out off control.

I think I'm right, but, who know's maybe that feeling of control is just false and a figment of our imaginations, maybe there is no such thing as control in the first place.

I thought this would be a good topic for discussion on the board here. And yes the GT4 board because control is even harder to define in a video game than it is in real life because you cannot "feel" the car's g-forces and grip in the game.
 
As you say rsmith, it depends entirely on your own definition of control.
I expect that by a loss in control your friend may mean that because you've exceeded your maximum available grip that you have therefore lost some of your maneuverability, and therefore you cannot control your motion as easily/effectively as in a full grip scenario. Any additional load imposed on the slipping tires has a reduced (or no) effect on your motion.

I don't look at it that way.

In the realm of GT4, exceeding a tires traction budget does not signify a loss of total control to me. Yes you have lost some grip, but you are still able to alter your trajectory and velocity if you know what you're doing. The car is no less responsive than before, it's just taken on a different behavior.

for me:
in control - the car responds in an expected manner to inputs
out of control - car responds in an undesired/unexpected manner to inputs


btw - not a bad topic rsmith. could get interesting.
 
BTW, incase some of you missed it or are two lazy to read all of my OP.

My def = I'm in control when the car is doing what I wan't it to do.
My friends def = When you are within the realm of 100% grip and beyond that you are out of control.

Also BTW. This was in real life. He was in the passenger seat of my '84 300z 2+2 and the sprinklers were on at the mall (11:05pm) so we took a few laps around the perimeter drive sideways. :sly: The sprinklers almost came on in his pants. :lol: He's a car guy, just not a drifter.
 
I don't think your ever in 100% in control of the car... I don't know if I'm in control I'm still learning and practicing.
 
rsmithdrift
He's a car guy, just not a drifter.
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well I find it very weird that he'd think that you're not in control of your car since he is a "car guy".

basically you and BL had said it all, so I don't need to say more. :)

remember the very old days of racing? those legends are basically sliding (not as much as drifting, but they are sliding :scared: )their cars around corners just to get faster (ya'know, old cars are fast, powerful, yet so hard to keep it straight) would your friend consider that as "losing control" as well? Another example would be Rally-ing, the drivers are all in full control of what their cars are doing, controlling the slides and etc. That's control 👍

for me, I think Drifting is an extremely direct method to show off your car controlling skills.
 
control= when you understand the car and when you make a mistake, you know that its coming and you can tell when your bout to grip or drift
 
if anything unintended happens you're not in control :P If you arent sliding exactly when and where you intended and things arent going exactly as you expected them to, you're not in complete control. Sorta like the difference between dancing and having an epileptic seizure.

It should be more of an action than you reacting to things. if you're just throwing the car sideways and hoping the car comes back in shape.. thats not good drifting.

1 way to tell is consistancy... aanother is giving yourself tasks and seeing if you can perform specific techniques.
 
In Control = Telling girlfriend to make me supper, and she does it.
Not In Control = What usually happens, her telling me to go make it myself.

Actually, I agree with BL and everyone else. As long as the car responds to your inputs and behaves how you want it too, then your in control. Its when you want to do something (ie, drift a corner) and the car is unable to do what your desired inputs tell it too do, that you are out of control.

Which brings my next question, if you input for the car to turn a corner, but your movements are miscalculated, and the car skids out and hits the wall, is that considered driver error, loss of control, or are they both considered the same thing? Or could it be loss of control due to driver error?

This question could help in the future when friends blame incomplete drifts on losing control due to improper settings, when really, it could just be driver error.
 
SRV2LOW4ME
In Control = Telling girlfriend to make me supper, and she does it.
Not In Control = What usually happens, her telling me to go make it myself.

Actually, I agree with BL and everyone else. As long as the car responds to your inputs and behaves how you want it too, then your in control. Its when you want to do something (ie, drift a corner) and the car is unable to do what your desired inputs tell it too do, that you are out of control.

Which brings my next question, if you input for the car to turn a corner, but your movements are miscalculated, and the car skids out and hits the wall, is that considered driver error, loss of control, or are they both considered the same thing? Or could it be loss of control due to driver error?

This question could help in the future when friends blame incomplete drifts on losing control due to improper settings, when really, it could just be driver error.
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IMO if the car isnt doing what YOU want it to do, then your out of control.
like say the first double apex on apricot hill normal.
you enter at 130ish mph, then right after the first apex you suddenly regain traction and you smack the wall. THAT is out of control. but say you enter at 130ish mph, and pull off an awesome drift, and link it into the next series of S corners, then you ARE in control because the car is doing what you tell it to do by your inputs.
 
This is honestly the response I would expect from the drift board, now that I think of it.

Just to keep it going, I talked to him again and he said that you are in control until you loose grip, then you can get it back by regaining grip, and that that was all I was doing was going into and out of control back and forth. I asked about Vipers and Mustangs and old school muscle cars racing and he said that they did the same thing, just constantly go into and out of control.

So I think he's eluding to that the car is out of control, but the driver isn't,.......or something. Whatever. :odd:

BTW, he's not a real car guy, he just likes street racing and hangs out with the racers every now and then. He drives a '04 Pontiac GP. I don't street race I just go out drifting once in a while and I was giving him a ride home from work........You know the rest.
 
Control is having the ability to do something with....something. Well, lets put it this way, out of control is the same as powerless. You can do alot of things while drifting, the car slides the way YOU want it to be.
Your the boss over it. Now if u spin, well then there's nothing you can do and your powerless.

Out of control means you got no turning back or options left IMO. If u drift, you where you want to, only differently.

Hope u got that lol:lol:
 
rsmithdrift
BTW, he's not a real car guy, he just likes street racing and hangs out with the racers every now and then. He drives a '04 Pontiac GP. I don't street race I just go out drifting once in a while and I was giving him a ride home from work........You know the rest.
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ok seriously, he's NOT a car guy, hes a POSER. First, his car is FWD so he has probably never expierienced a RWD. the two types of drive train perform so differently that this kid probably barelly understands what is going on. Second, street racing is unsafe and stupid, therefore it breeds stupid people, and these people grow up not by eating there vegetables and drinking there milk but watching 2 fast, 2 furious. just tell him to try it and stop hanging out with the posers.
 
sidewayzinCA
ok seriously, he's NOT a car guy, hes a POSER. First, his car is FWD so he has probably never expierienced a RWD. the two types of drive train perform so differently that this kid probably barelly understands what is going on. Second, street racing is unsafe and stupid, therefore it breeds stupid people, and these people grow up not by eating there vegetables and drinking there milk but watching 2 fast, 2 furious. just tell him to try it and stop hanging out with the posers.
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Me and him work together and live in the same part of town, so it saves gas to carpool it. Also were we work is really boring, so gotta have something to talk about/do. I know he's not a real car guy, I said that in the quote in your post, lol.

But yeah, he's not the first to bring up the idea of drifting being controlled or not, and certainly not the last. I just used him as an example.

So back on topic now.
 
well if you're comparing grip to drifting, while drifting you have less control, but not absolutely none. You can make teh car do lots of things by applying the brakes or gas or turning the wheel, but if you have grip its easier to predict what the car is going to do when that happens. Like, if you're driving, and a person or something jumps out on the road, while drifting, It'd be harder to avoid them, because if you turn, it'd be very hard to predict what exatcly its going to do. If you have grip though you can easily turn out of the way, or brake without your car doing anything insane. Thats only if you compare the two though.
 
G-T-4-Fan
...Your the boss over it. Now if u spin, well then there's nothing you can do and your powerless.

Out of control means you got no turning back or options left
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Amen to that :dopey:
 
You are still controlling the car, if you turn it will respond, if you pull the handbrake, it will respond. what about D1 drivers, are they out of control, they make the car do exactly what they want, even though they are sliding. Even when you go past 100% of the tires grip, it doesn't disapear completely, it just starts to go back down. If they did that, then you could do a burnout forever without going anywhere. like when you pull the handbrake, the car's tire's grip goes over 100% but you still slow down. Therefore, they still have some grip left.
 
Show him a drifting video, search online for one, especially one with multiple cars. I'm sure it'll change his idea of "in control."

It he saying that you're 100% out of control or partially? or what?

Because you're never 100% in control and never 100% out of control of any car.
 
luftrofl
Because you're never 100% in control and never 100% out of control of any car.
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Good piont! If your sliding around on ice and you turn the wheels, you will still do something. That proves that you are never 100% out of control
 

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