Could this be why we have "standard" cars?

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TeddyBear-420

TeddyBear-420

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Teddy_Bear-420
I was trying to think why Kaz would do this. Why would he have standard cars. First i thought to cut time, but they had 5 years. Then i starded thinking, a hardcore fan of many things likes the "classics" of what they are collecting. Maybe Kaz kept the Original for a reason. He might have thought a true fan would want them to be in classic form as we grew to love them. Thats just my opinion though.
 
You mean original as in pixelated and blocky? I don't think so. I think he wanted to get in more cars than GT4 and to do that he knew they couldn't all be premium quality. So he compromised and ported most over from older games. Thus the pixelated and blocky cars.
 
Another possible reason might be because the game file was too big and the only way to include premiums in the game was to have standard cars in the main game then add premiums as DLC.
 
Standard cars are there to keep the desperate fans who want the game early, happy.

I do remember reading an article where Kaz said that PD was in the middle of creating more Premium Cars.
 
I'm just speculating, but another reason could be that in order to produce a premium car, you need full acceess to that vehicle in a studio for maybe a few weeks.

I'm not sure this is possible in a lot of cases, e.g. LM machnery, classic and new, some very rare or old cars, etc.
 
Another reason might be that this is a racing/driving game. Not sitting about looking at cars and photographing them game.
 
Still they had a lot to do with rehashing or redesigning physics on each of those 800 cars. Ok, we have many similar models, but then there´s the rest :)
 
Because pd are lazy, they had the best part of 6 years! No excuses, all cars should be premium.
 
chaosdd
I'm just speculating, but another reason could be that in order to produce a premium car, you need full acceess to that vehicle in a studio for maybe a few weeks.

I'm not sure this is possible in a lot of cases, e.g. LM machnery, classic and new, some very rare or old cars, etc.
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a few weeks? it doesn't take too long to scan the cars with a laser, maybe for the interior details but they probably just took thousands of pictures
 
What a hilarious thread. The level of fanboyism and Kaz hero-worship is massively out of step with reality. PD didn't create all cars premium because:

1. The entire GT5 project was incredibly badly managed in general.
2. 1000 cars were needed for no other reason than a back of the box bullet point, despite it adversely affecting the overall quality and enjoyment of the game (again, bad project management).
3. PD shot for a complexity level in the premiums that was unsuitable for the PS3 (there are slowdown issues that were never there in GT1, GT3 or GT4), unsuitable for PD ever getting all the work finished, and unsuitable for gamers who were expecting a consistent polished product.
4. I believe Kaz has said he wanted to have car models that were good enough for the next generation. He tried the same trick with GT4, and look where that got us. He seems to look at GT like an evolving vanity project that occasionally has to get jumbled into a release, instead of creating great finished games that suit their console generation.

PD completely dropped the ball with GT5.
 
1241Penguin
Standard cars are there to keep the desperate fans who want the game early, happy.

I do remember reading an article where Kaz said that PD was in the middle of creating more Premium Cars.
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So GT5 was released "EARLY" then? lol :)
 
5 years is enough to create a seriously cool racing title, with consistently lovely car models, amazing tracks, great AI, damage, great online play with little to no grinding to speak of. Just ask Slightly Mad, Turn 10 etc.

Don't blame the fans wanting it 'early'.
 
Maybe they preferred quality over quantity and no i'm not referring to the car list. Think about the amount of time taken to improve the physics and everything else around the cars then think of the true race fans that probably stopped using 3rd person view back on GT1 or 2 and couldn't care less for how a car they only see in their garage and for a few seconds before a race looks. I personally could care less if they were square blocks as long as they handle more similar to their real life models.
 
James2097
What a hilarious thread. The level of fanboyism and Kaz hero-worship is massively out of step with reality. PD didn't create all cars premium because:

1. The entire GT5 project was incredibly badly managed in general.
2. 1000 cars were needed for no other reason than a back of the box bullet point, despite it adversely affecting the overall quality and enjoyment of the game (again, bad project management).
3. PD shot for a complexity level in the premiums that was unsuitable for the PS3 (there are slowdown issues that were never there in GT1, GT3 or GT4), unsuitable for PD ever getting all the work finished, and unsuitable for gamers who were expecting a consistent polished product.
4. I believe Kaz has said he wanted to have car models that were good enough for the next generation. He tried the same trick with GT4, and look where that got us. He seems to look at GT like an evolving vanity project that occasionally has to get jumbled into a release, instead of creating great finished games that suit their console generation.

PD completely dropped the ball with GT5.
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Took the words right outta my mind!👍
 
Jimmie
Another reason might be that this is a racing/driving game. Not sitting about looking at cars and photographing them game.
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Erm,photo mode,replays,fastidious attention to detail on the car's?..lol
 
TeddyBear-420
I was trying to think why Kaz would do this. Why would he have standard cars. First i thought to cut time, but they had 5 years. Then i starded thinking, a hardcore fan of many things likes the "classics" of what they are collecting. Maybe Kaz kept the Original for a reason. He might have thought a true fan would want them to be in classic form as we grew to love them. Thats just my opinion though.
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They didn't work on GT5 for 5 years. Even if they worked 2 years on it, the result would be unsatisfactory. For 5 years it would be an utterly unacceptable result, so IMHO the existence of the standard cars boils down to lack of time and 'cannot be arsed'. There're quite a lot of things hinting at an utter lack of time :

- the several delays of publication
- the very sparse amount of races
- the fact that the A-Spec races were duped as B-Spec mode without adding anything to the game itself
- the unbalanced levels of Licenses (some ridiculously easy, other bordering on impossible)
- they didn't manage to reach gold times for the example replays in licenses, sometimes they don't even manage a silver (IC-7 for example)

This all shows that GT5 is a rush-job and that necessarily transforms to cars as well. copy/pasting them from GT3 and GT4 was easy, but there was no time to at least anti-alias them, which is why some of them look like the result of a kid's playing with Lego bricks.
 
dschoene
They didn't work on GT5 for 5 years. Even if they worked 2 years on it, the result would be unsatisfactory. For 5 years it would be an utterly unacceptable result, so IMHO the existence of the standard cars boils down to lack of time and 'cannot be arsed'. There're quite a lot of things hinting at an utter lack of time :

- the several delays of publication
- the very sparse amount of races
- the fact that the A-Spec races were duped as B-Spec mode without adding anything to the game itself
- the unbalanced levels of Licenses (some ridiculously easy, other bordering on impossible)
- they didn't manage to reach gold times for the example replays in licenses, sometimes they don't even manage a silver (IC-7 for example)

This all shows that GT5 is a rush-job and that necessarily transforms to cars as well. copy/pasting them from GT3 and GT4 was easy, but there was no time to at least anti-alias them, which is why some of them look like the result of a kid's playing with Lego bricks.
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And of course the R8 v10 that has the V8 headlights and v8 engine,the pixellated tyre smoke,lack of brake upgrades/tyre width upgrades along with the fairly dimwitted AI (has improved though).After the hype and trailers I was underwhelmed to be honest.
 
Mysterious R
Maybe they preferred quality over quantity and no i'm not referring to the car list. Think about the amount of time taken to improve the physics and everything else around the cars then think of the true race fans that probably stopped using 3rd person view back on GT1 or 2 and couldn't care less for how a car they only see in their garage and for a few seconds before a race looks. I personally could care less if they were square blocks as long as they handle more similar to their real life models.
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Hate to be harsh, but this isn't a valid argument if you think about it. If you're genuinely arguing that time being put into perfecting the physics somehow means there is less time for modelling the cars... These two things are not related to each other dev time wise - its different teams. There is no give or take in terms of "you can have physics quality or car modelling quality".

The reason people like me get annoyed at PD's decision to include standards after over-doing the premium quality is because GT, as a series, has always been about amazingly shiny/sexy looking cars AND physics that are more 'sim' than other console titles yet accessible enough to still be completely mainstream for the target audience (anyone who likes racing games and has a PlayStation). GT has always been a series cherished for both it's fun simmy yet accessible physics, yet has *always* been a graphical tour de force on each console generation.

GT has always been THE benchmark for car modelling and shiny graphics. If the game had been only premium cars, this would have been achieved. Whether it would have been a good *game* is still open for discussion - there are so many other game design problems with GT5 its not worth getting into all over again.

Anyhow, its silly to assume that in any ideal or completely intentional situation that PD would have chosen to use PS2 assets if they had finished enough premium models to flesh out the game. The reality is the standards have marred the series' quality like we all suspected they would. GT5 is a bit of a joke among everyone I know who bought it. We still try and find the fun in it, but it isn't what the series used to be, not by a long shot.

This is unfortunate, and there really is no upside to it, other than sheer quantity of cars, which if is enough for you, and you aren't just making excuses, good on you. But the fact GT5 shipped with two tiers of drastically different quality in the car modelling, isn't a sign of a competent or intentional choice, but one of "oh ****, we aren't going to get many premiums done, throw in the old cars". Its was a huge blunder, regardless of how early in development PD saw it coming.
 
James2097
Hate to be harsh, but this isn't a valid argument if you think about it. If you're genuinely arguing that time being put into perfecting the physics somehow means there is less time for modelling the cars... These two things are not related to each other dev time wise - its different teams. There is no give or take in terms of "you can have physics quality or car modelling quality".

...
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^^^ What he said ^^^

I had a bit of a discussion with a colleague this morning. He bought GT5 last week and he was claiming that it is the best thing since sliced bread and when I said that GT5 should have been released on Apr. 1st, so people would at least have known that it was meant as a practical joke, he looked at me as if I had just claimed the earth was flat. So I tried to come up with a Clarksonian analogy:

GranTurismo is the Ferrari - always has been the yardstick and a lot of history and tradition of getting it right. Need For Speed is Lamborghini, slightly less brilliant than a Ferrari, not quite the brilliant ride, slightly bonkers, but always a huge giggle if you take it for a spin. Then there is the new boy, the Lexus LFA - Forza. Bunch of boffins sat down to create a brilliant car and did just that. Fantastic ride, but not much of a tradition yet.

Now, for the last 5 years Ferrari has been waxing lyrically about their upcoming new sportscar and it finally has arrived and when they roll it on to the stage, you notice that it is in fact not much more than a polished Fiat Barchetta.

Now, if you never had a Ferrari or even a car, you will probably like it. It looks nice, makes a nice sound and runs reasonably fast as well, even if you're not much of a driver.
On the other hand, if you had for instance the previous Ferrari, you'll say something along the line of "WTF?". Yes it looks nice, but is tiny and while it may make an acceptable sound, that sonds comes from a motor that wouldn't look out of place in one of your kitchen appliances. And while it may not be too slow, it is front wheel drive.

Ferrari does of course bring along something new (Online). So every week or every second week, they invite you to free track days, which is all jolly nice, but if you don't want to do track days or can't, then you're left with a little FWD runabout that looks awfully meager in contrast to the 599 (GT4) or 355 (GT2).

I'm really keen to get that colleagues opinion after he tested my old GT4 :dopey:
 
dschoene
So I tried to come up with a Clarksonian analogy:

GranTurismo is the Ferrari - always has been the yardstick and a lot of history and tradition of getting it right. Need For Speed is Lamborghini, slightly less brilliant than a Ferrari, not quite the brilliant ride, slightly bonkers, but always a huge giggle if you take it for a spin. Then there is the new boy, the Lexus LFA - Forza. Bunch of boffins sat down to create a brilliant car and did just that. Fantastic ride, but not much of a tradition yet.
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I lol'ed at this section of the post. But perhaps Forza could be the Ultimate Aero? Looks like a cartoon,goes like stink? :D
 
dschoene
^^^ What he said ^^^

I had a bit of a discussion with a colleague this morning. He bought GT5 last week and he was claiming that it is the best thing since sliced bread and when I said that GT5 should have been released on Apr. 1st, so people would at least have known that it was meant as a practical joke, he looked at me as if I had just claimed the earth was flat. So I tried to come up with a Clarksonian analogy:

GranTurismo is the Ferrari - always has been the yardstick and a lot of history and tradition of getting it right. Need For Speed is Lamborghini, slightly less brilliant than a Ferrari, not quite the brilliant ride, slightly bonkers, but always a huge giggle if you take it for a spin. Then there is the new boy, the Lexus LFA - Forza. Bunch of boffins sat down to create a brilliant car and did just that. Fantastic ride, but not much of a tradition yet.

Now, for the last 5 years Ferrari has been waxing lyrically about their upcoming new sportscar and it finally has arrived and when they roll it on to the stage, you notice that it is in fact not much more than a polished Fiat Barchetta.

Now, if you never had a Ferrari or even a car, you will probably like it. It looks nice, makes a nice sound and runs reasonably fast as well, even if you're not much of a driver.
On the other hand, if you had for instance the previous Ferrari, you'll say something along the line of "WTF?". Yes it looks nice, but is tiny and while it may make an acceptable sound, that sonds comes from a motor that wouldn't look out of place in one of your kitchen appliances. And while it may not be too slow, it is front wheel drive.

Ferrari does of course bring along something new (Online). So every week or every second week, they invite you to free track days, which is all jolly nice, but if you don't want to do track days or can't, then you're left with a little FWD runabout that looks awfully meager in contrast to the 599 (GT4) or 355 (GT2).

I'm really keen to get that colleagues opinion after he tested my old GT4 :dopey:
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Excellent analogy!
 
Personally, I enjoy having the standards over not having them. So if it came down to a decision on whether to have 100+ cars all premium or a 1000+ cars with the rest standard, I'll take the standards every day of the week.
 

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