Cultus = (another) cheat car?

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People seems to say that Escudo (often dergatorically Execuseo :yuck:) is the cheat car. However, I found that the Cultus is also a cheat car. Heck, I did win the Super Speedway GT All-Stars race with the Cultus. :mischievous: This caused me to think that both Pikes Peak cars (Cultus and Escudo) are cheat cars in GT2.

Discuss!
 
Really, any car can become a cheat car, this is all relative to what it's competing against. Even a Daihatsu Midget is faster than a bicycle or a golf cart. Therefore if there were bikes and golf carts in Gran Turismo like there are in Grand Theft Auto, and if we could somehow race these against actual cars, the Midget would become the latest cheater!
 
I've found that same people who consider the Escudo or Cultus a cheat car often use the GT-One with abandon, basically doing exactly what others do with the Escudo or Cultus with the flimsy excuse that 'It's a race car, the Escudo and Cultus are built for Pikes Peak and should only race there!' Nevermind that the GT-One is a Le Mans prototype, and by their argument should only be raced in Le Mans, which isn't even in GT2...

But anyway like Parnelli said, if you use a car that is hugely better than the competition, it could be considered a cheat car. Tuned Skyline in the muscle car race: cheat car. Supra in the Sunday Morning Cup? Cheat car.

The Escudo and Cultus are actually rather nice, if one can get over the stigma associated with them. The Escudo especially has very nice parts to use when hybriding.
 
Beat the AI Escudo at the Pikes Peak races with the Cultus, and you'll see it's not a cheat car.

Okay, so it is for nearly everything else (700+ hp where the circuit-racing competition uses less).
 
Lots of people used to use the Excuseo all the time as a cheater. In a way, it's actually a better cheater than the Toyota GT-1 because it's more tolerant of wall-bashing and other such nonsense. Starting in GT3, PD made sure the Excuseo handles more terribly on pavement than it did in GT2, hence it wasn't quite as good of a cheater in this game, but people still used it in the Super Speedway endurance (putting tape and/or rubber bands on their dual-shock somehow to keep it going) as a cheater in this game.

The Cultus rarely used to get mentioned back in the day simply because it's a lesser-powered car in comparison the Excuseo.

I started a thread long ago talking about Pike's Peak races, and what can possibly be raced there. I think we came to the conclusion that not much can make it uphill in competition against the Excuseo
 
I've actually found that for some races the Cultus is even better than the Escudo. Anything on a slower track and I can go much faster with the Cultus, presumably because the engine(s) is a lot more tractable.
 
Really, any car can become a cheat car, this is all relative to what it's competing against. Even a Daihatsu Midget is faster than a bicycle or a golf cart. Therefore if there were bikes and golf carts in Gran Turismo like there are in Grand Theft Auto, and if we could somehow race these against actual cars, the Midget would become the latest cheater!

:lol:

I've actually found that for some races the Cultus is even better than the Escudo. Anything on a slower track and I can go much faster with the Cultus, presumably because the engine(s) is a lot more tractable.

Because of turbo lag? :rolleyes: IMO the HKS dragsters could even lost with the Pikes Peak monsters. ;)
 
Starting in GT3, PD made sure the Excuseo handles more terribly on pavement than it did in GT2, hence it wasn't quite as good of a cheater in this game, but people still used it in the Super Speedway endurance (putting tape and/or rubber bands on their dual-shock somehow to keep it going) as a cheater in this game.

Yeah, I was shocked at how bad it handles on tarmac when I tried it in GTPSP. Definitely nowhere near its god-like status in GT2. Still an awesome car on dirt and snow though. And the engine sound is much better too.

I started a thread long ago talking about Pike's Peak races, and what can possibly be raced there. I think we came to the conclusion that not much can make it uphill in competition against the Excuseo

The Cultus can beat it quite easily. And I think Famine managed to beat it with an FTO LM. Not much else though.

Personally, I quite liked the Cultus. More fun to drive because it has understeer (unlike the Excuseo's unlimited grip). Better paint scheme. Better design (more compact and less showy). Plus I've never heard of the base car before. The Excuseo is as common as mushrooms in Indonesia. Shame PD dropped it in later games.
 
their not cheat cars. they are just fast cars in the game that guarantee you to win pretty much. just like the X2010 in gt5
 
It's not so much the ability to drive way in front of the pack as the ability to lap the pack in a 5 lap race.

And anyway, most of the people who call it a cheat car seem to use the GT-ONE the same way, so it doesn't really matter. It's just that it makes the game easy, and some people don't like that.
 
It's not so much the ability to drive way in front of the pack as the ability to lap the pack in a 5 lap race.

And anyway, most of the people who call it a cheat car seem to use the GT-ONE the same way, so it doesn't really matter. It's just that it makes the game easy, and some people don't like that.

Very well said.
 
But how is it a game if it's easy? I don't care what other people do. For me the beauty of a game is how much it can challenge me.

Studies have shown that gaming can be good. A lot of uninformed opinions say that gaming is a waste of time. But the studies don't lie, and the US government listens to those studies and incorporates gaming into its military training. Schools use gaming, too. They say it's about decision making in the moment.

Of course it could also be argued that cheating when it's an option is also good decision making. On the surface it's certainly more rewarded than punished in the American system. But to me it turns the GT experience into a reductio ad absurdium, and why spend $50 on something you already know? People who are truly successful in life won't disagree with this.

Racing games seem rather uncontroversial, but Kaz is so passionate about bringing us the best of his vision, I just have to wonder why? In some ways, he reminds me of Hayao Miyazaki, a cultural defender, asking us not to slip backwards but to keep demanding more from ourselves. In an environment where survival has become too easy, games can provide us the challenge of our ancestral experience, and so can bring us, through meeting the challenge, to the feeling of having survived through the ultimate battle, and so finally to the ecstasy and reward that we need to feel occasionally as a (hopefully) evolving species in a (historically) challenging environment.

Oof, I sound so preachy... but I game!:)
 
But how is it a game if it's easy? I don't care what other people do. For me the beauty of a game is how much it can challenge me.

Studies have shown that gaming can be good. A lot of uninformed opinions say that gaming is a waste of time. But the studies don't lie, and the US government listens to those studies and incorporates gaming into its military training. Schools use gaming, too. They say it's about decision making in the moment.

Of course it could also be argued that cheating when it's an option is also good decision making. On the surface it's certainly more rewarded than punished in the American system. But to me it turns the GT experience into a reductio ad absurdium, and why spend $50 on something you already know? People who are truly successful in life won't disagree with this.

Racing games seem rather uncontroversial, but Kaz is so passionate about bringing us the best of his vision, I just have to wonder why? In some ways, he reminds me of Hayao Miyazaki, a cultural defender, asking us not to slip backwards but to keep demanding more from ourselves. In an environment where survival has become too easy, games can provide us the challenge of our ancestral experience, and so can bring us, through meeting the challenge, to the feeling of having survived through the ultimate battle, and so finally to the ecstasy and reward that we need to feel occasionally as a (hopefully) evolving species in a (historically) challenging environment.

Oof, I sound so preachy... but I game!:)

WOW! That is some piece of delicous, quality writing on the last part of the second paragraph. Beautiful piece of writing JeffGodin.
 
Very well said JeffGoddin, hear hear! :cheers: :)

In all seriousness, I can only agree with what the others have said. The Cultus is no more a cheat car than anything else when in certain contexts. Hey, when I first started playing GT2, back when I was like 9 years old, I had a used Prelude, and would enter it into the French Championship at Tahiti Road for relatively easy £££s early on, and I'd dominate those races - by the same term, you could say my Prelude was a cheat car for that race. Maybe cheat is the wrong word - maybe 'take challenge out of game' car is more appropriate.

I agree with JeffGoddin's sentiments though, and it's why now, I literally cannot overkill a race, unless I desperately need cash. But even so, I hunt for a good, close race wherever I can. The way the GT games are structured, it's pretty easy (less so in later games) to get a strong car before halfway through the game and tank a lot of the high-ranking races and endurances, therefore wiping a lot of the challenge out of about 60% of the game. Obviously there are still the manufacturer races and HP-limited races, etc, but even so with clever negotiation around the rules, it is possible to overkill these too. But where's the challenge in that?

I've long thought that Kaz makes Gran Turismo to be a celebration of teh car, and of racing. That's why he includes the rare, obscure cars - you may never race them, but that's not the point, you at least have the chance to drive them and enjoy them on an equal footing with, say, the supercars and Le Mans prototypes. That's why it always has a laid-back atmosphere to the menu screens, music etc. A NFS Carbon type atmosphere, for example, with lots of testosterone and egotistical characters strutting around mouthing off about 'taking you down' and other such horse manure, would not work at all, as that's not the point of the game. In Gran Turismo, you make your own adreneline rushes, and they can come in anything from a Daihatsu Midget to a Suzuki Escudo.

I know I'm veering off-topic here, but my point is, GT allows us this free-form structure, and it's up to us to choose whether we overkill everything and move on, or geniunely work hard to craft a close race and test ourselves to the limits of driver skill. I used to be in the former camp, but have now moved squarely to the latter, and have enjoyed some fantastic duels in the GT games, GT2 being no exception, with some of my most thrilling races coming from not behind the wheel of a GT-One or other high-powered car, but from a SilEighty, my humble Prelude, a Mazdaspeed RX7, and assorted other, relatively humble machinery.

Anyway, enough blabbing - my conclusion is that the Cultus is included in the game as a fine example of technological achievement for us to hoon around in, and for us to widdle all over the game as a challenge if we so want...but where's the fun in that? :mischievous:
 
their not cheat cars. they are just fast cars in the game that guarantee you to win pretty much. just like the X2010 in gt5
... Or the formulas in GT3. Everyone can learn to love to cheat with these "cheat cars". In GT2 I even used the 378-hp Taevion Mitsubishi FTO to pseudo-cheat my way though a few races of a too high level for the FTO and won the simply because the car drives so well.
 
I used to cheat all the time with the GTO in GT1 and Excuseo in GT2 in my early days. No one cares, and I get a lot of $$$ so I could buy the cars I want and tune 'em up. To me driving these monster machines at their limit was fun. I treated every race like a Time Trial basically.

Then I found GTP, and seeing the skill level here I decided to stop using these monster cars and race properly. It pays dividends in improving your skill if you're constantly fighting with the pack. Now I feel really guilty if I overpower the competition just a little bit, and I always detune my car to have a close race.

Occasionally though, when I'm pissed (usually because I have to do an enduro the 5th time in a row to get a random prize car :mad:), or when I have to grind (coughxpcough), I do enter overpowered machinery. But I do it because I hate these stupid design choices, and I want to get it over with so I can do what I like in GT - driving cars for the sole purpose of driving them and appreciating the machine. Not repeating races over and over because a dev wants to extend the game length artificially.

Some people like to cheat, some people don't. It really doesn't affect you, so I don't care what other people does to their games. If I can get them converted, then it's great. But if I can't, I just let them be. It's the enjoyment of the game that's important. Games are meant to entertain after all. If cheating keeps them playing for longer, then all the better. It boggles me sometimes of the attitude of elitist gamers in the GT5 forums. You're not them, so why are you so worked up over it? They may get an unfair advantage it terms of material (cars, credit, xp, etc), but you are a better driver. That knowledge alone is enough satisfaction for me.
 
Don't knock the Daihatsu Midget ,I have used it to win two of the lightweight events :gtpflag:,only wish there were more races it could compete in
 
Not sure I'd call the excuso or cultus cheat cars, the races they can enter do say 'free' 'any car', after all. But ofc, it's also an almost guaranteed win in any race they can enter.
 
Man, after reading this thread, I feel like a little scrubby kid 'cause I almost always try to avoid a close race.... I think I'll follow @LeGeNd-1 's lead and get close challenging races. (`_´)ゞ

UPDATE: So, I enter a 500PS limit race in my 370PS RMed S2000 on RM tires. What do you think happened?
 
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You crushed it, obviously.

This is a great resource for having close races:
http://www.gtcarreviews.com/id22.html
Yeah... I just passed everyone... The only reason I didn't have a huge lead was because I kept spinning out.
I tried a 550PS race with it too. Ended passing everyone with only a little bit more effort required. (-。-;
Same 550PS attempted in a 350PS Skyline 2000GT too ended up with me easily winning.... I feel like it's because the cars were RMed and had racing tyres...
Thanks for the link too! I'll read it out slowly and try out some!
 
Good thing they fixed the Escudo's handling and performance stats in GT3 and GT4, i was racing against a Corolla Rally Car with an Escudo in a very tight ice track in Gran Turismo 4 and it was a pain to win the race because the car handling and acceleration was horrible.
 
This is an old thread I know. As most GT2 players know, a car that is close to the power limit will usually clock the field effortlessly. The only 3 races I have found where that is not the case are the 2 98hp kei events, and the infamous Rome race when the GT40 shows up.

I try to race fair, clocking the field effortlessly in a Cerbera LM gets old, even if I love it to death... I fire up GT2 just to rip up RRV with it.
 
The Escudo is very much a cheat car but in all the wrong ways. It is a 'rally' car and so it's not a 'road going' car after all. So there is never a reason for it to overpower road going cars in circuit racing just as it would be ridiculous for the Toyota GT One to beat the Escudo on the Pikes Peak trial. In real life the 3 Toyota TS020's were the fastest qualifiers in the 24 hour LeMans and won respectable 2nd place over-all the models have been very successful in racing and the recent TS050 maintains fastest qualifier position for Toyota. So making a dirt racer impede were it has no business being able to impede or impose or dominate is a rather 'major' simulation error. There is not way in real life that a Escudo would even be within rear dust flinging range of a Toyota GT One on the circuit. That's why the Escudo is a disgrace to this game showcasing bad programming of it's properties.

Regardless I love this game but I can't stand the Escudo.


Anyway, I'm done ranting.
 
Studies have shown that gaming can be good. A lot of uninformed opinions say that gaming is a waste of time. But the studies don't lie, and the US government listens to those studies and incorporates gaming into its military training. Schools use gaming, too. They say it's about decision making in the moment.

There's something in the latest Scientific American magazine about how gaming builds mental fortitude and better dexterity / reactions in the real world. I haven't read it yet, but it goes along those lines.


Oof, I sound so preachy... but I game!:)

This is a touchy subject. :) It's easy to say things that wind up pissing other people off.
 
Wow! The old time users are still really active around here. I know by my post count it seems like I'm new but I have been around a while but had a long GT break. I'm back in GT2 again. I specifically remember Parnelli Bone and JeffGoddin for sure.

My old user accounts were RenesisPower(2006-2009) and this one. Anyway cool to see the old timers are still around.

I have been loving this game a lot again.
 

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