Dagger's New First Car Thread.

[Dagger311]

Okay, in the last one, I had a pretty far-fetched and well, fantasy fueled scheme in which my first car would be a vintage Camaro.

I've realized that was probably not a good idea, and have a new plan.

1: Buy a cheap (3k tops) family sedan (which ones would you reccomend?).
2: Save money.
3: Buy Camaro when my insurance would be cheaper/when financially possible.

So, the question is, which family sedan would be the best? I'd need:

At least five seats.
Good (22+ maybe? Would consider something slightly lower) MPGs.
Reliability.
Cheap insurability.
Automatic or paddles only.
Safety is a must.
Repairs/maintenance should be cheap, and replacement parts (in the event of a wreck) should be cheap and plentiful.
Can't be a land yacht, parking space is an issue.

Any ideas? I was thinking about an Altima, from maybe the early 2000s. I kinda like the way they look. Are they reliable? I'm sure gas is good in them, and it's a fwd sedan, so insurance should be cheap.

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Well, this isn't the most exciting option, but a Toyota Camry would be a pretty good first car which fits most if not all of the parameters.

It's reliable, parts are plentiful, it's simple to work on (if you feel like doing some DIY), insurance will be cheap, it's cheap to maintain, they have plenty of room, as far as I know they have good crash ratings, and not to mention they're cheap and easy to find.

The perfect first car I'd say. Particularly the '90s models and early '00s.

 

[Dagger311]

Well, they are really, really boring, but so is absolutely everything else in a 3k budget.

But a quick question: Why it over an Altima, Civic, Accord, Corrola, or all the other cheap family cars? I mean, I have no idea which to choose from, there's fifty. Any reason in particular?

 

[Bopop4]

Because the nothing is as reliable as a Camry, plus the insurance on a smaller car is higher because people tend to crash them more and get them stolen more often.

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Well, they are really, really boring, but so is absolutely everything else in a 3k budget.

But a quick question: Why it over an Altima, Civic, Accord, Corrola, or all the other cheap family cars? I mean, I have no idea which to choose from, there's fifty. Any reason in particular?

Trust me, an Altima isn't anymore fun. Nor is a Corolla, Accord, or any other family sedan.

From my experience, Toyota has some of the most reliable cars available. My dads owned many Camrys/Corollas and they all ran perfectly even with a ton of miles. A Corolla is also a very solid car, but the Camry is a bit bigger to my knowledge on the inside. The engine that's in most Camrys (the 2.2 L 5SFE) is a very strong motor, so long as you keep an eye on your oil level as almost all of them leak from the rear main seal. And like I said, they're very simple to work on.

Hondas are also pretty solid, but I always found Toyotas to be simpler to work on for the most part. Though really, you can't go wrong with an Accord.

 

[Dagger311]

Because the nothing is as reliable as a Camry, plus the insurance on a smaller car is higher because people tend to crash them more and get them stolen more often.

Insurance on small cars is high? Never knew that. The Wrangler is an exception though, according to Forbes. Probably because most people don't daily those.

Trust me, an Altima isn't anymore fun. Nor is a Corolla, Accord, or any other family sedan.

From my experience, Toyota has some of the most reliable cars available. My dads owned many Camrys/Corollas and they all ran perfectly even with a ton of miles. A Corolla is also a very solid car, but the Camry is a bit bigger to my knowledge on the inside. The engine that's in most Camrys (the 2.2 L 5SFE) is a very strong motor, so long as you keep an eye on your oil level as almost all of them leak from the rear main seal. And like I said, they're very simple to work on.

Hondas are also pretty solid, but I always found Toyotas to be simpler to work on for the most part. Though really, you can't go wrong with an Accord.

We've had bad experiences with a 2004 Accord, but it could've just been a faulty model or something.

But anyway, the 2.2s leak oil? Never would've guessed that. Any fixes for it? Putty?

 

[Bopop4]

Insurance on small cars is high? Never knew that. The Wrangler is an exception though, according to Forbes. Probably because most people don't daily those.

Insurance is mainly determined by the risk group of that car, who buys it and how often they get into accidents.

A Neon or Civic is high risk because it's sometimes all a young driver can afford. Lots of new drivers buy these small, cheap cars, and it's not the cars fault, but they crash them more often.

But something like a Corvette that mainly only older people can buy is actually relatively cheap to insure because it doesn't get crashed often.

It was 50 bucks cheaper a month to insure a Miata over my Focus.

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Insurance on small cars is high? Never knew that. The Wrangler is an exception though, according to Forbes. Probably because most people don't daily those.


We've had bad experiences with a 2004 Accord, but it could've just been a faulty model or something.

But anyway, the 2.2s leak oil? Never would've guessed that. Any fixes for it? Putty?

Yup, almost all 5SFEs leak oil. If you want to absolutely fix the problem, you can replace the rear main seal which involves pulling the motor. I wouldn't recommend this as it's much easier and cheaper to just add some stop leak and hope for the best. My '93 Camry leaked oil, and stop leak worked pretty well at slowing it. My dad's SW20 MR2 (which in case you didn't know share the same engine) had the same problem, which was fixed with some stop leak.

Even so, you have to keep an eye on the level and top it off every once in a while.

 

[Dagger311]

Insurance is mainly determined by the risk group of that car, who buys it and how often they get into accidents.

A Neon or Civic is high risk because it's sometimes all a young driver can afford. Lots of new drivers buy these small, cheap cars, and it's not the cars fault, but they crash them more often.

But something like a Corvette that mainly only older people can buy is actually relatively cheap to insure because it doesn't get crashed often.

It was 50 bucks cheaper a month to insure a Miata over my Focus.

Then maybe I should get a Corvette!

Just kidding, I'm not that stupid .

I always thought insurance was determined by things like power, drivetrain, repair costs, market value, driver age, and experience.

Yup, almost all 5SFEs leak oil. If you want to absolutely fix the problem, you can replace the rear main seal which involves pulling the motor. I wouldn't recommend this as it's much easier and cheaper to just add some stop leak and hope for the best. My '93 Camry leaked oil, and stop leak worked pretty well at slowing it. My dad's SW20 MR2 (which in case you didn't know share the same engine) had the same problem, which was fixed with some stop leak.

Even so, you have to keep an eye on the level and top it off every once in a while.

Stop leak? Never heard of it. But it just shocked me, finding out an engine renouned for its insane reliability leaks oil.

I'll definitely look into them as well though, thanks.

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Then maybe I should get a Corvette!

Just kidding, I'm not that stupid .


Stop leak? Never heard of it. But it just shocked me, finding out an engine renouned for its insane reliability leaks oil.

I'll definitely look into them as well though, thanks.

I forgot what brand we use at work but if I remember I'll let you know. Basically oil leaks are the only problem that they have.

And no problem. 👍

 

[Dagger311]

I forgot what brand we use at work but if I remember I'll let you know. Basically oil leaks are the only problem that they have.

And no problem. 👍

Alright, cool. I'll probably end up pulling the motor regardless, just cause I can't stand anything being wrong with anything. If something isn't working 100% the way it should, I typically either fix it, or give it away/trash it*.

*Not dumb enough to trash a car.

 

[Legro]

I'm not sure if you want one, but some larger Volvo (850 or S80) fits to those requirements quite well.

At least five seats.
-Yes.
Good (22+ maybe? Would consider something slightly lower) MPGs.
-Yes.
Reliability.
-Very reliable.
Cheap insurability.
-At least that would make sense.
Automatic or paddles only.
-Yes.
Safety is a must.
-It's a Volvo, it can't get much more safe.
Repairs/maintenance should be cheap, and replacement parts (in the event of a wreck) should be cheap and plentiful.
-At least here, Volvo parts are cheap.
Can't be a land yacht, parking space is an issue.
-Not very large in American scale.

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Alright, cool. I'll probably end up pulling the motor regardless, just cause I can't stand anything being wrong with anything. If something isn't working 100% the way it should, I typically either fix it, or give it away/trash it*.

*Not dumb enough to trash a car.

Honestly, it's really not worth the trouble. Simply using stop leak and checking the level every once in a while and topping it off is a LOT easier than taking the engine out simply to replace a seal...

And of course it's not like every single one leaks oil, just most of them. Generally when they start to rack up the miles.

 

[Dagger311]

I'm not sure if you want one, but some larger Volvo (850 or S80) fits to those requirements quite well.

At least five seats.
-Yes.
Good (22+ maybe? Would consider something slightly lower) MPGs.
-Yes.
Reliability.
-Very reliable.
Cheap insurability.
-At least that would make sense.
Automatic or paddles only.
-Yes.
Safety is a must.
-It's a Volvo, it can't get much more safe.
Repairs/maintenance should be cheap, and replacement parts (in the event of a wreck) should be cheap and plentiful.
-At least here, Volvo parts are cheap.
Can't be a land yacht, parking space is an issue.
-Not very large in American scale.

Looks like it meets all the criteria well. I'll look at prices, thanks.

Honestly, it's really not worth the trouble. Simply using stop leak and checking the level every once in a while and topping it off is a LOT easier than taking the engine out simply to replace a seal...

And of course it's not like every single one leaks oil, just most of them. Generally when they start to rack up the miles.

I know, but stuff like that annoys me . It can't be more than a days' work, can it?

 

[ilikewaffles11]

Looks like it meets all the criteria well. I'll look at prices, thanks.


I know, but stuff like that annoys me . It can't be more than a days' work, can it?

Honestly, I'm not sure how long it'd take. Probably could be done in a day but I could be wrong. Plus of course you'd need all of the proper tools and space to do it.

 

[Dagger311]

Tools and space are the problem with doing any sort of engine pulls on any car. We have no garage, I'd have to rent a place somewhere.

Or rent the tools, and do it in the backyard...

 

[Bopop4]

Or rent the tools, and do it in the backyard...

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

Something like removing the entire engine and replacing the piston on a motorcycle is relatively easy when compared to taking out a car engine and working on it, and whenever I work on my bike with a neat area and lots of space I still have to hunt for tools of parts I just set down.

Remember, you'd have to daily this car, can't do that when the engine won't work because an ECU cable got wrung out or a stubborn bolt breaks off in its hole.

 

[JMoney]

Forgot the 3k budget, you won't get anything worth driving for 3k. Save up until you can spend about 5k, then buy a 90's Mercedes. Fits the criteria, looks good, and is interesting.

 

[Dagger311]

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

Something like removing the entire engine and replacing the piston on a motorcycle is relatively easy when compared to taking out a car engine and working on it, and whenever I work on my bike with a neat area and lots of space I still have to hunt for tools of parts I just set down.

Remember, you'd have to daily this car, can't do that when the engine won't work because an ECU cable got wrung out or a stubborn bolt breaks off in its hole.

Ah yes, I forgot about the fact that it would have to be in just as good of shape as it was before I took it out, and there's always a shot something could go wrong. Looks like it's leak stop and pray then...

Forgot the 3k budget, you won't get anything worth driving for 3k. Save up until you can spend about 5k, then buy a 90's Mercedes. Fits the criteria, looks good, and is interesting.

Depends on the Mercedes, and I'm afraid 3, maybe 3500-4000 would be all I'd want to pay for a first car.

I heard 90's Mercs are pretty big.

 

[Bopop4]

Ah yes, I forgot about the fact that it would have to be in just as good of shape as it was before I took it out, and there's always a shot something could go wrong. Looks like it's leak stop and pray then...


Depends on the Mercedes, and I'm afraid 3, maybe 3500-4000 would be all I'd want to pay for a first car.

I heard 90's Mercs are pretty big.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I learned that the hard way.


You can get something decent for 3, I got my 2007 Focus for 4500.
An earlier one could be had for 3, and I just got 36mpg on my last tank.

It ticks all of your boxes as well, won a ton of awards, and being a small Ford it's cheap to fix.

 

[JMoney]

Ah yes, I forgot about the fact that it would have to be in just as good of shape as it was before I took it out, and there's always a shot something could go wrong. Looks like it's leak stop and pray then...


Depends on the Mercedes, and I'm afraid 3, maybe 3500-4000 would be all I'd want to pay for a first car.

I heard 90's Mercs are pretty big.

E's and S's are large but not massive. A C-Class is a good midsize sedan, and will probably be the cheapest as well. You might find one for around 4K, but if you do don't let the milage scare you off. 200,000 miles in a Mercedes is about 100,000 in a Toyota.

 

[Dagger311]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I learned that the hard way.


You can get something decent for 3, I got my 2007 Focus for 4500.
An earlier one could be had for 3, and I just got 36mpg on my last tank.

Yeah, there went me, looking at everything like I can afford for it to be down for a while.

Now, the eventual Camaro is a different story.... It will most likely be pulled several times to fit parts.

And I considered a Focus, just wasn't sure if they could keep up with the reliability of their Japanese competitors.

 

[Bopop4]

Yeah, there went me, looking at everything like I can afford for it to be down for a while.

Now, the eventual Camaro is a different story.... It will most likely be pulled several times to fit parts.

And I considered a Focus, just wasn't sure if they could keep up with the reliability of their Japanese competitors.

When I was looking for my car my number one priority was reliability, and the apart from the Yaris being a bit expensive, the Focus is what I picked.

At the start I never would've considered a mid-2000's American car for the very reason you stated, but then I did some more research.

Winner of over 60 awards, it's right up there in terms of reliability with the Asian manufacturers.
The build quality does feel a bit cheap in some areas, but mechanically the car is solid, and it handles quiet nicely too.
(It'll actually oversteer if you let it.)

I've never had to replace anything on it but I would assume that it would be very cheap considering it's a domestic compact.

 

[Dagger311]

When I was looking for my car my number one priority was reliability, and the apart from the Yaris being a bit expensive, the Focus is what I picked.

At the start I never would've considered a mid-2000's American car for the very reason you stated, but then I did some more research.

Winner of over 60 awards, it's right up there in terms of reliability with the Asian manufacturers.
The build quality does feel a bit cheap in some areas, but mechanically the car is solid, and it handles quiet nicely too.
(It'll actually oversteer if you let it.)

I've never had to replace anything on it but I would assume that it would be very cheap considering it's a domestic compact.

Hmm... Maybe if I could find one cheap enough.

Thanks for the lead. I'm excited. All I need is proof of residence, and I can get an ID, plus the learner's permit. The ID will let me get a work permit, and hopefully I'll have a job by this time next month.

Mom thinks I'm too young to be worrying about a car to buy .

E's and S's are large but not massive. A C-Class is a good midsize sedan, and will probably be the cheapest as well. You might find one for around 4K, but if you do don't let the milage scare you off. 200,000 miles in a Mercedes is about 100,000 in a Toyota.

How long are the Mercs generally good for? I've heard some claims of 400,000 miles...

 

[Joey D]

Pretty much any Volvo for $3,000 will be fine. There's all sorts of early 90's 240's around me and while they aren't fast, they are built like tanks and will run forever. If you want something newer, I've always been a fan of recommending Neon's since you can pretty much build one with junkyard parts and nothing is expensive for them. The headgaskets can be an issue, but they're pretty easy to replace.

Forgot the 3k budget, you won't get anything worth driving for 3k. Save up until you can spend about 5k, then buy a 90's Mercedes. Fits the criteria, looks good, and is interesting.

You're not trying hard enough if you think you can't get anything for $3,000 worth driving.

 

[Dagger311]

Pretty much any Volvo for $3,000 will be fine. There's all sorts of early 90's 240's around me and while they aren't fast, they are built like tanks and will run forever. If you want something newer, I've always been a fan of recommending Neon's since you can pretty much build one with junkyard parts and nothing is expensive for them. The headgaskets can be an issue, but they're pretty easy to replace.



You're not trying hard enough if you think you can't get anything for $3,000 worth driving.

I don't really care if it's new or old, so long as it meets everything I listed in the OP.

I have heard some wonderful things about Volvos...

There's so many choices. How is anyone expected to decide?!

 

[Slash]

I told you in the convo, 90-93 2.3L Fox.

At least five seats: 4 seats but you can fit 5 people in it.
Good (22+ maybe? Would consider something slightly lower) MPGs.: Automatics get around 23-25, manuals get 30+ with a good driver
Reliability.: The 2.3L is one hell of motor you can't destroy easily, they take a lot of abuse and a lot of horsepower mods before grenading. The manuals are better but the automatics aren't too awful bad. Never had one break down as long as you get an N/A one and not the turbo.
Cheap insurability.: Not a V8 car, and low horsepower make it pretty cheap to insure. My once 16 year old friend had one and paid for it on minimum wage.
Automatic or paddles only.: Check.
Safety is a must.: When new the car was NHTSA rated at 4/5 stars. Pretty good for back then.
Repairs/maintenance should be cheap, and replacement parts (in the event of a wreck) should be cheap and plentiful.: You can't find a car with cheaper parts save for a third gen Camaro. Plus, you have the advantage of thousands in junkyards with good working parts that can be had for a few pennies.
Can't be a land yacht, parking space is an issue.: The car is one of the smallest they ever built, and it's popular for that reason.


Bonus part is you can pick up a MINT car for under $3,000. No one wants the 4 cylinder cars, but if your smart you can get one cheap and make them fast for less than the cost of buying a V8 one off the bat.

 

[Dagger311]

Not bad at all. The 5 seats thing can be worked with. Not sure how often I'd need just one extra seat anyway. We have a rogue that seats five that I'm sure I could borrow if I ever do.

 

[Slash]

The only major thing is, the N/A ones are dreadfully slow. Sure it only weighs 2,500lbs in notchback form and 2,750 in full form, but it has a whopping 105hp/135tq at best, and with an auto, its going to be even more of a slouch. Fortunately, cheap aftermarket fixes that and they are simple enough for a beginner to learn to wrench on without a massive worry of screwing something up.

So even though it's "out of the box" performance is pretty suckish, its not about what it is in that form but what you can do to it as a learning experience over time and it'll get you into the scene you're looking to get into that much quicker. Aftermarket go fast parts are dirt cheap. For what you want in the long run, it really isn't a bad start. And besides, less horsepower is probably better in your case, and should make it easier to hoon around in without getting you in trouble.

 

[Dagger311]

1: I intend to do zero hooning.
2: I need reliability and practicality with this car. It's just a daily. Doesn't have to be exciting.

That said, I would totally mod the hell out of it eventually.