Daily Race C - La Sarthe - With Audi R18! Hot to use KERS correctly?

[Mirror_man]

I´m using this post to look for help on how may I use correctly the KERS with the Audi R18, on this week´s Race C (LA Sarthe)!

I have no idea how the use of KERS is done!!

Is it absolutely automatic or do we have a special key/button just for it??

How does KERS "power" builds up???

Please give some hints on this!

Thanks, indeed!

 

[talhaONE]

kers is used automaticly after every corner exist. You can see how much energy left by looking at green bar on the fuel gauge.

 

[KepleroGT]

I´m using this post to look for help on how may I use correctly the KERS with the Audi R18, on this week´s Race C (LA Sarthe)!

I have no idea how the use of KERS is done!!

Is it absolutely automatic or do we have a special key/button just for it??

How does KERS "power" builds up???

Please give some hints on this!

Thanks, indeed!

Kers is built up on braking. Some cars like the 919 take away a little bit from the engine at high speeds, others gain it exclusively on braking.
There's no button at the moment unfortunately, I wish they allowed us to use it manually or automatically. To get the most out of it accelerate in a straight line.

 

[Mirror_man]

kers is used automaticly after every corner exist. You can see how much energy left by looking at green bar on the fuel gauge.

Kers is built up on braking. Some cars like the 919 take away a little bit from the engine at high speeds, others deploy it up to 250 kmh.
There's no button at the moment unfortunately, I wish they allowed us to use it manually or automatically. To get the most out of it accelerate in a straight line.

Thanks Guys! Now I understand how it works (or.. should work... ) !!!!

 

[Cerebral303]

There are certain techniques for driving cars with KERS, such as choosing a different gear in corners I think, and managing your speed/acceleration so the KERS ends up deploying when you want it to. I am still trying to get the hang of it, and am not a pro but there is a slightly different technique.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

Try setting your brake balance right to the back (+5). This increases regeneration on the hybrid cars (Porsche, Audi and Toyota)

Also, if you are very good then you can try riding the brakes in some of the corners. The last bit of the lap and the 1st bit of the lap at Circuit de la Sarthe springs to mind. With the Toyota you can lift and coast as well and it will add some regen.

 

[Mirror_man]

Try setting your brake balance right to the back (+5). This increases regeneration on the hybrid cars (Porsche, Audi and Toyota)

Also, if you are very good then you can try riding the brakes in some of the corners. The last bit of the lap and the 1st bit of the lap at Circuit de la Sarthe springs to mind. With the Toyota you can lift and coast as well and it will add some regen.

Excellent hint!
Thanks!

 

[talhaONE]

There are certain techniques for driving cars with KERS, such as choosing a different gear in corners I think, and managing your speed/acceleration so the KERS ends up deploying when you want it to. I am still trying to get the hang of it, and am not a pro but there is a slightly different technique.

I find this tecnique useless. Using kers whenever available gives me faster lap times. Also in cars like Toyota Ts050 never run outs its energy.

 

[Mirror_man]

Try setting your brake balance right to the back (+5). This increases regeneration on the hybrid cars (Porsche, Audi and Toyota)

What is the logic behind that???

 

[Lost Sheltie]

I think the brake regen is done on the rear axle in these cars, so if you have the brake balance set to the back then it is putting more force through the rear axle and from that you get more regen.

It does make the car more snappy, eg. the back axle can lock and you will then have to try and stop the rear end coming round on you, but it will give you more power in the hybrid system.

 

[sundaydriving]

What is the logic behind that???

Dunno mate. Its beyond me.

I think its different for each car. Toyota doesn't need it. The Porsche does a bit but less so.

I think the brake regen is done on the rear axle in these cars, so if you have the brake balance set to the back then it is putting more force through the rear axle and from that you get more regen.

It does make the car more snappy, eg. the back axle can lock and you will then have to try and stop the rear end coming round on you, but it will give you more power in the hybrid system.

I thought it was the opposite? When electric motors are attached to the front wheels dont these switch to regen under braking? No idea how changing BB increases regen unless it effectively increases the braking distance/time which also increases the amount of energy recovered through those wheels. i.e. force them to do more work? Wouldn't putting more physical force through the brakes on the same wheel attached to an electric motor reduce the amount of regen? But what do I know? I'm just speculating and of course the game could simulate with as many short cuts as they want as long as the end result seems real enough?

 

[praiano63]

I think the brake regen is done on the rear axle in these cars, so if you have the brake balance set to the back then it is putting more force through the rear axle and from that you get more regen.

It does make the car more snappy, eg. the back axle can lock and you will then have to try and stop the rear end coming round on you, but it will give you more power in the hybrid system.

I'll try this. With the R18 i was using bb at -3 and the top R18 ghost i was sticking at flew away 1 second out of Arnage turn all all of the time.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I think the brake regen is done on the rear axle in these cars, so if you have the brake balance set to the back then it is putting more force through the rear axle and from that you get more regen.

It does make the car more snappy, eg. the back axle can lock and you will then have to try and stop the rear end coming round on you, but it will give you more power in the hybrid system.

Correction - the regen is on the FRONT axle. If you move brake balance to the rear, the front axle relies more on the regen than actual brakes to slow it down, and hence it harvests more energy. The only cars that benefit from this for sure are the 3 new hybrid LMPs (R18 2016, 919 and TS050). Some of the VGTs might benefit (Pug, Audi) but I lack track time in these cars to know for sure (and it doesn't have a display in the interior which shows battery % like the 3 LMPs).

It's essentially a braking distance vs acceleration trade off. Do you prioritise braking performance or acceleration? Also the 3 hybrid LMPs differ in their braking stability and regen characteristics:

R18 - most stable under braking (can use BB +4/5 to recoup more energy), but poorest regen under normal conditions (only recharges during braking)
TS050 - moderate stable (BB +3/4), moderate regen (recharge under braking + coasting)
919 - very unstable (BB +2/3 so can't harvest much), but highest normal regen (recharges under braking + coasting + on throttle from exhaust energy)

So as you can see, the 3 cars are all very well balanced actually, but in different ways. You just have to experiment to find one that suits your style.

-----

More trivia if you're interested:

- In F1 the regen is on rear axle, so rear brake discs are much smaller than front (because they don't have to work as hard). In the Canadian GP a few years ago, the Mercedes cars have a failure of their MGU-K regen system, so essentially the rear brake discs have to do all the slowing down now. Canada is a particularly brake heavy track and Hamiton had to retire due to rear brake failure (the small disc can't cope with all the extra heat). Rosberg managed to compensate by altering his driving style and moving the brake bias forwards. He finished the race, but only just.

- In Assetto Corsa's Ferrari F1 car, you can set different profiles of regen (how aggressive it is basically). This must then be balanced against engine braking map. Basically more aggressive regen --> you need to reduce engine braking (otherwise the rear axle slows down too quick - equivalent to pulling the handbrake and making the car very easy to spin). Reducing engine braking also diverts more exhaust gas to the diffuser, which increases rear stability (win-win basically), BUT it uses more fuel. Yup, other than being fast, you also need to juggle all these systems when driving

 

[Mirror_man]

Correction - the regen is on the FRONT axle. If you move brake balance to the rear, the front axle relies more on the regen than actual brakes to slow it down, and hence it harvests more energy. The only cars that benefit from this for sure are the 3 new hybrid LMPs (R18 2016, 919 and TS050). Some of the VGTs might benefit (Pug, Audi) but I lack track time in these cars to know for sure.

It's essentially a braking distance vs acceleration trade off. Do you prioritise braking performance or acceleration? Also the 3 hybrid LMPs differ in their braking stability and regen characteristics:

R18 - most stable under braking (can use BB +4/5 to recoup more energy), but poorest regen under normal conditions (only recharges during braking)
TS050 - moderate stable (BB +3/4), moderate regen (recharge under braking + coasting)
919 - very unstable (BB +2/3), but highest normal regen (recharges under braking + coasting + on throttle (from MGU-H harvesting energy from the exhaust))

So as you can see, the 3 cars are all very well balanced actually, but in different ways. You just have to experiment to find one that suits your style.

-----

More trivia if you're interested:

- In F1 the regen is on rear axle, so rear brake discs are much smaller than front (because they don't have to work as hard). In the Canadian GP a few years ago, the Mercedes cars have a failure of their MGU-K regen system, so essentially the rear brake discs have to do all the slowing down now. Canada is a particularly brake heavy track and Hamiton had to retire due to rear brake failure (the small disc can't cope with all the extra heat). Rosberg managed to compensate by altering his driving style and moving the brake bias forwards. He finished the race, but only just.

- In Assetto Corsa's Ferrari F1 car, you can set different profiles of regen (how aggressive it is basically). This must then be balanced against engine braking map. Basically more aggressive regen --> you need to reduce engine braking (otherwise the rear axle slows down too quick - equivalent to pulling the handbrake and making the car very easy to spin). Reducing engine braking also diverts more exhaust gas to the diffuser, which increases rear stability (win-win basically), BUT it uses more fuel. Yup, other than being fast, you also need to juggle all these systems when driving

Thanks! We could call this as "LEGENDARY" Info, Mate!

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

If you lift + coast, then trail-brake, they tend to harvest a bit more energy in braking zones from what I've noticed.

 

[jaquelinesv]

Im curious abot what strategy @Lion-Face used on the NISMO LMP1, I could not identify how to load the battery.
I will use it some races to become level B again as on level A to many use the same car now on race 3

 

[RACECAR]

From what I last recall driving the R18, the regeneration of its energy seems rather poor in comparison to both the Porsche and Toyota as it seems to recover nowhere near the amount as the lap goes on relative to them.

For instance, the Toyota makes up quite abit in braking and can get more from coasting (Something that helps abit in the Porsche Curves as well as the Ford Chicanes).

Kers is built up on braking. Some cars like the 919 take away a little bit from the engine at high speeds, others gain it exclusively on braking.
There's no button at the moment unfortunately, I wish they allowed us to use it manually or automatically. To get the most out of it accelerate in a straight line.

If I recall, the 919 actually takes energy from the waste gate of the turbos as well, which means it can recharge while on the straights as well as under braking.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

Lol, got to love the fact that I was only completely wrong on which axle creates the regen

Found this interesting article on the Porsche 919 regen https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/mot...19-hybrid-technology-lmp1-race-car-12724.html

 

[KepleroGT]

If I recall, the 919 actually takes energy from the waste gate of the turbos as well, which means it can recharge while on the straights as well as under braking.

Yes, that's what I meant. I don't know the technical details, thanks for explaining.

 

[Lion-Face]

Im curious abot what strategy @Lion-Face used on the NISMO LMP1, I could not identify how to load the battery.
I will use it some races to become level B again as on level A to many use the same car now on race 3

Nismo only regenerates battery by braking.

It is interesting, as if it has empty battery, it initially regenerates very slowly, then when it gets to a certain point, around 33% charge, it tops up in a moment but never to 100% bar. It also never stops deploying battery until it is empty. The Toyota for example stops using its battery power at around 240kph, where if the Nismo has battery left, it will continue to deploy until empty, usually runs out around 260kph.

So for La Sarthe for example, to regenerate the battery at the first chicane down Mulsanne straight, the normal brake point in qualifying I use is the marshals on the left where the fence breaks, just before last brake marker. If I brake there in the race, it won't regen the battery fully. So I brake at the 2nd last brake marker on the left. It is only a second earlier, but tops up the battery for the next run down the straight.

The Audi is slower at regenerating it's battery and needs to start braking at the first brake marker to build it up for comparisons sake. Makes the Audi tricky to drive as you are braking more than 100 meters earlier than the Toyotas need to, so you need to watch out for cars behind that may get caught out with your early braking.

 

[Winnie847]

Back when Kie made the video about BB affecting hybrid regeneration he was absolutely right, especially about the 2016 R18 needing rear BB for more hybrid. But now I think that has changed a couple updates ago at least. I can only really speak for the R18 because I drive it a lot, but I was getting the same amount of hybrid on BB0 as I was on +5 while hot lapping yesterday at Sarthe. There used to be a drastic difference, but I actually set a faster time with BB0 and my +5 ghost never pulled away from me on corner exits. I heard or read somebody else say this awhile back too and now I’m pretty sure they were correct. This is good news to me because I hated having to compromise the car’s handling in order to squeeze more juice out of the hybrid system.

The best method I’ve found with this car is to ride the brake just a tiny bit through certain corners to regenerate it quickly. I figured this out from qualifying sessions in FIA races where a lot of people burn fuel by giving full throttle and a little bit of braking to keep revs maxed at a low gear without hitting the limiter. Do this on the final few corners of any outlap so you have full hybrid when beginning your hot lap.

Of course I could be wrong, I just remember the difference between +3 and +5 being very noticeable in the past and now I can’t even tell a difference between 0 and +5.

 

[talhaONE]

Im curious abot what strategy @Lion-Face used on the NISMO LMP1, I could not identify how to load the battery.
I will use it some races to become level B again as on level A to many use the same car now on race 3

So you are asking strategy for Nismo? The best strategy for nismo is dont use it. Dont. The car will eat up its front tires faster then any other lmp1 car which makes the uncompetitive car even more garbage in later laps of the race.

Nissan wanted to put hybrid power to real wheels but failed(dont remember why) so in game hybrid power only goes to front wheels. I had a proposition about giving hybrid power to rear wheel for much enjoyable and competitive experience against other lmp1 cars but community mostly disagreed for the sake of realism.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Back when Kie made the video about BB affecting hybrid regeneration he was absolutely right, especially about the 2016 R18 needing rear BB for more hybrid. But now I think that has changed a couple updates ago at least. I can only really speak for the R18 because I drive it a lot, but I was getting the same amount of hybrid on BB0 as I was on +5 while hot lapping yesterday at Sarthe. There used to be a drastic difference, but I actually set a faster time with BB0 and my +5 ghost never pulled away from me on corner exits. I heard or read somebody else say this awhile back too and now I’m pretty sure they were correct. This is good news to me because I hated having to compromise the car’s handling in order to squeeze more juice out of the hybrid system.

The best method I’ve found with this car is to ride the brake just a tiny bit through certain corners to regenerate it quickly. I figured this out from qualifying sessions in FIA races where a lot of people burn fuel by giving full throttle and a little bit of braking to keep revs maxed at a low gear without hitting the limiter. Do this on the final few corners of any outlap so you have full hybrid when beginning your hot lap.

Of course I could be wrong, I just remember the difference between +3 and +5 being very noticeable in the past and now I can’t even tell a difference between 0 and +5.

It definitely still generates more with BB +5. You can do an objective test in cockpit view because the screen on the wheel shows battery percentage. Just drive up to limiter in 3rd/4th gear, brake to zero on BB 0, then repeat with BB +5. You'll see the % goes higher with BB rear. La Sarthe is probably an anomaly because it has heavy braking zones (so the battery charges adequately anyway) and very long straights which nullifies slight acceleration advantage (as you spend most time sitting at top speed instead of accelerating).

I still wish that we can deploy battery power manually using the overtake button. Currently it won't deploy when your steering wheel is turned more than 45 degrees so these cars are very disadvantaged on tracks with long sweeping corners. This is why the TS030 is OP at Interlagos because it's supercapacitor system always deploy completely no matter the speed or wheel angle.