Define "Being Forced to Race," and is This a Relevant Issue?

[JohnBM01]

Usually when it comes to racing certain automobiles, it is pretty cool to enjoy performance racing with almost any car. Sometimes, though, I often hear about "being forced to race" some car just to get 100% completion. That lead me to coming up with this topic. GTPlanet, I want you to define what you mean by "being forced to race," and I'd also like to ask if this should be such an issue. As the creator of this thread, I will begin.

The definition I would provide for someone saying "being forced to race" a certain automobile has to do with racing a vehicle in GT only to complete the game. Gran Turismo games have been defined as an encyclopedia of cars by Kazunori Yamauchi, and I can understand why people feel like they are being forced to race certain cars. This is simple to define for the concerned parties. Basically, if a race series features sport trucks and one prefers exotic sports cars, a person is going to feel like he/she is being forced to race a certain car or certain type of car. If GT5 included Ferraris and Porsches, I bet most people would love racing them. Altogether, I think it's dumb for some people to say such a thing because if you really love cars, you would feel as comfortable racing a sporty FWD vehicle as much as you would a powerful front-engined, RWD sports car. Some are like that, some aren't.

Now on to the other question. Is this a relevant issue? Absolutely NOT. To me, if you're going to respect all automobiles in the game or enjoy racing in general, it is pretty lame to say "being forced to race" something. I thought racing Daihatsu Midget D-Types was pretty slow and pretty boring. That doesn't mean, however, that I should feel like I'm only wasting my life racing FWD cars when I "should" be racing F1 cars and sportscars. I'll freely race anything in a Gran Turismo game, just so long that I'm not "forced" to racing something. To me, being forced to race a certain auto means that I have only one crappy car that I MUST use to complete the game.

Your turn now.

 

[Tenacious D]

Being forced to do certain races? Oh, that's always the case with most games. You "have" to do things to progress or complete it. I'm not fond of trucks, SUVs or what I call "dinkmobiles" like the Midget, so I'd rather get those races out of the way as early in the game as possible.

Would I not do those races if I didn't have to? No, I want to do everything Polyphony set before me. They took the trouble to code and model it. I should at least honor them enough to do those races, especialy as in awe of the rest of the game as I am. And hopefully that's how most of us feel.

 

[arsenal]

Yes, that's pretty much how I feel.

As far as I'm concerned, nobody can really be forced to do anything in any video game.
Is someone holding a gun to your head?

 

[crimson_menace]

Agreed. 'Forced' racing is ghey, and I hope that it's down to a min. or even non existant in GT5.

 

[Freddy]

Of course, as people have mentioned before, there will always be a race or races that you really don't like and just do it to get it out of the way. I like the idea of getting them done first. That way you save all your favourite races until last.

If GT was made so that it had ONLY what a certain person wanted you'd have a million or more variations of the game.

GT is meant to contain a variety of races and cars.

Do you think that KY personally enjoyed making (and playing) every single race in the game and finding them all equally exciting? Most likely not. He would have preffered some races over others.

So I say in the end do what you wish. You can do your favourite races, neutral races and hated races and clock 100% of the game or you can do only all your favourite races and clock, say, 50%.

It's your choice.

GT ISN'T meant to be hassle. If you don't enjoy playing don't play it.

RACING IS NEVER A WASTE OF TIME!

 

[Dave A]

Agreed. 'Forced' racing is ghey, and I hope that it's down to a min. or even non existant in GT5.

So you want a game that will let you race and event in any car at any time and is already at 100% complete so your not actually forced to even race once if you don't want to.

Every single game ever forces you to do things, racing games are no different. Why shouldn't you have to do races in every type of car to get to 100% complete. If you don't want to do a series don't do it, you'll sacrifice your 100% complete ratio but it's down to you, the only races your FORCED to do to open up more are the beginner and professional races, your not forced to do any in the US, European and Japanese halls and no-ones forcing you to do any of the special condition hall, mission hall or manufacturer races either.

 

[niky]

I don't feel like it's an issue. You're only "forced" to do the licenses and race a few halls to open up the rest of the game. And those two halls aren't difficult at all (but the licenses are a drag... they may be good for newbs, but for an experienced GT-player, they're a time-eating drudgery).

The only reason you'd be forced to do the rest of the races is if you want that 100% completion or are looking for a particular car. I don't think it's a big deal AT ALL. I'm not at 100%, and I'm not sweating it. I'm in no hurry, as I'm enjoying myself just diddling around and doing the races I WANT to do.

 

[FoolKiller]

Outside of licenses and mission halls when are you forced to actually drive anything? If you don't want to race a "dinky" car race then B-Spec it. I think B-Spec has really removed this issue. Just fix up the car needed to enter the race as much as possible and then B-Spec it. Come back in a minute and collect your earnings. You don't even have to have the license to B-Spec races. So, you could beat about 95% without even getting a license or driving a race in A-Spec. So if your goal is just to collect cars or reach 100% then you have very little forcing going on.

Before someone says how can a B-Spec'd only game be fun I will ask, how can limiting yourself to a certain group of cars or deciding you are finished after 100% be fun?



Despite my usual habit of ranting about people who complain about "dinky" cars I will not do it here as I have posted my opinion on this multiple times in other threads.

 

[Emohawk]

Thinking back to the two races (Beetle cup and Crossfire cup) I was... lets say coerced, into; I didn't really mind having to do the races. I probably wouldn't have touched the cars involved if there weren't races for them, and having driven them I can safely say that wouldn't have been something I'd regret.
What bothered me about those two race series' was having to pay for the cars. So, what's to be done about that? Maybe if you can do the entire race series getting more then ~120 A spec points, it'll reimburse you for the purchase price of the car.
To prevent this being exploited (mastering the Saleen S7 for 200K per championship), it would only pay you back once for ever itteration of that car you purchase.
It's a little reward for the skilled or persistant, and it's not really a penalty if you're not.

 

[niky]

Actually, to touch on what Emohawk said, I think Foolkiller already hit that one on the button. B-Spec what you don't want to race, and B-Spec another series or race to make the money back.

And I agree... B-Spec has made the "Forced to Race" issue mostly moot.

 

[Tenacious D]

Emohawk, that's an interesting idea, but because making money in the GT series is so easy, I don't think being required to buy a car here and there is much of an issue.

Now in Gran Turismo 5, if Kazunori-san implements something like Career Mode, we'd have to see. But I think he's wanting to keep the game balanced in all modes, so that if you race in Career Mode, you don't feel broke in comparison to regular GT mode. Assuming he uses the concept of Career Mode anyway. Oh PLEEASE oh please oh please oh please oh please!!

And I would B-Spec the dinkmobile races, but that's even more boring.

 

[greenlightning]

One thing that is great about granturismo, and perhaps almost unique to racing games. Is that granturismo allows you to freely complete the vast amount of races in the sequence that you choose. If this was ever changed, so that you was forced to do each group of races in a sequence it would be a huge mistake. Also there could be the possibility that for some cars, that the license agreement includes things such as this car etc. must have its own manufactor's race. I am sure that with so many cars in the game, that some companies would like to ensure that their newest model gets driven.

 

[JohnBM01]

I brought up this issue because I was thinking a lot about what some people say about GT games. I don't come up with threads without some kind of driving force. The driving force in this context is about people posting about "being forced to race" a certain kind of car or compete in a certain kind of race that one does not enjoy wanting to race.

My only issue is, I don't think one is "forced" to race a certain car or compete in a certain race. Some people would just say, "get the car, set it up, and just run the damned race." There's basically no way around it. There's only a few instances in racing games in which you are FORCED to use a certain car. One example is when you are playing a demo, and you have only one car to use in the demo. Another time is if the racing game had you use a certain car and you use that car all throughout the game. Other than that, what are you actually being FORCED to race? Not to be mean, but I don't think PD has your personal feelings intact when it comes to certain races. No one cares if you don't like the car you're supposed to use. All that matters is that you can make the most out of that car and win it all. Sports franchises do this anytime they don't have enough hope to win it all. Some win, some lose, some come close, but winning is most important. It isn't like most arcade games where you unlock cars to use and end up using that car in all sorts of races. Where's the fun in that? Where's the variety?

I thought it was cool to race pickup trucks. Certain GT gamers want supercars, but the series in GT4 was a bit disappointing. I know I knocked that series completely, but at least you got supercars that were anything but Ferraris and Porsches. Sometimes, you'll find a certain car or race series can be fun. Just don't go the idiotic and selfish route of saying you're forced to race something in some series. You're forced to race some of the fastest machines in typical arcade games, so what makes most arcade racing games any different from GT in this sense?

Carry on if you have some other stuff to dish out.

 

[FoolKiller]

I thought it was cool to race pickup trucks. Certain GT gamers want supercars, but the series in GT4 was a bit disappointing. I know I knocked that series completely, but at least you got supercars that were anything but Ferraris and Porsches. Sometimes, you'll find a certain car or race series can be fun. Just don't go the idiotic and selfish route of saying you're forced to race something in some series. You're forced to race some of the fastest machines in typical arcade games, so what makes most arcade racing games any different from GT in this sense?

This is why I have little patience for these complaints. At most you are "forced" to race three to five races with a certain car. Assuming you couldn't B-spec it would still be very little compared to the total game. I think these people would be happier with a GT arcade. Usually the people who make these complaints are the same ones that hate the licenses too. They are frustrating but I do love them and they create a post 100% challenge for me. As for truck and <100 hp car races, it creates variety.

The difference between GT and arcade games where you are forced to race only supercars is that the people who complain are supercar fanboys and don't see a point in racing anything less. They seem to forget that racing involves more than just going fast. It also requires skill and understanding of physics. Along with their car rants are teh understeer rants, showing they have never taken a car into a curve at high speed and then hit the brakes late. I have and my car did not turn, it understeered. That was in a Buick. I can only imagine how a supercar would handle that.

So, I don't think the issue is being "forced" to race a certain car. I think it is people who only want to race a supercar and then think they know how it should handle. When they begin complaining I have to shake my head because their comments show an ignorance of the game and reality. Just to clarifgy; in real life most cars are not supercars, they do understeer when you brake too late at high speeds, in gamne you can B-spec anything you don't like, and you can pay for any car you have to buy just by visiting the DTM Bank or whichever your money race of choice is.

Maybe that's just me, but from my point of view all complaints in this area are unnecessary.

 

[JohnBM01]

Of course these complaints are foolish. That's why I wanted to exploit what some people say about past Gran Turismos. Not just exploit, but want to know WHY some people say what they say, as opposed to just stating the point and expect us to believe him/her. Like I've said. More cars and more tracks boost the amount of variety. Some people don't want to admit it, but you can't be all about supercars all the time. Supercars are not the only way to race Gran Turismo. At one point, the discriminating GT gamer is going to have to learn that racing can be enjoyable in anything from a Daihatsu Midget to a Nissan R92CP.

This is why I feel like I'm too utopolistic on GT issues. Sometimes, it sounds like I'm supporting GT games too much even neglecting glaring issues. My thing is, I talk about how I got to enjoy a Gran Turismo game even if it isn't one of its rivals (Forza Motorsport, Enthusia, GTR, TOCA Race Driver series, etc.). But when it comes to an issue of someone saying that a person is forced to race a certain series, like it's the worst-case scenario anyone can face. Like "oh no! I have to race Nissan Marches!" Or "why do I have to race these Mazda Miatas?" You're going to have to learn that automobiles can still be fun even if not 6-figure speed demons. Like I've said, if Ferraris and such were in the game, a good number of you would enjoy wanting to compete in Ferrari races.

If that is the case, when someone says "being forced to race," it could come out to something we call, a double standard. You know, a person would hate to race a Kei car in a One-Make deal. But if there was a One-Make series with supercars and exotics, a person would love it dearly. A person wouldn't feel like being forced to race a certain car now, wouldn't it? But the big point I'm trying to come across- don't feel like you're forced to race cars you don't like. PD probably doesn't care what you like in cars; but, they just want you to see the world of cars. None of this "Japanese bias," none of the other crap... a car is a car is a car. Be thankful you're even having an oppurtunity to race almost anything you want as long as it's within the rules. Since when has freedom and open-ended and open-restricted gameplay been a NEGATIVE to Gran Turismo?

 

[chinko]

i never felt forced to do anything. i drove MYSELF to do these things, the game didnt hold a gun to my head and tell me to play it. the only race i severely disagree'd with was the midget cup thing (i dont have anything against slow cars at all, just the midget race is tedious)

Agreed. 'Forced' racing is ghey, and I hope that it's down to a min. or even non existant in GT5.

so you'd just go out straightaway with a R89C and wipe the floor in every race, and get 100% in a matter of minutes, and a whopping 1 car in your garage?? beating 12hp cars with a 1200hp car is NOT fun.

thats also what i like about GT. you have to actually play to get some of the stupidly fast cars, you cant just bum around in one league until you have 4 million then buy the fastest car in the game, as in GT4, what i consider the fastest is also the hardest to get