Definition of a Hot Hatch?

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I'm just wondering what your defintion of a hot hatch is. It seems to change with each new generation of cars. Obviously the car is has to be a hatchback but what else? Is it horsepower? Weight? P/W? I would consider a hachiroku (120hp) a hot hatch but its got about the same hp as a base civic. I don't think a hatchback with 120hp sold right now would be considered a hot hatch at all.

Lots of people seem to think my current car (SVTFocus) is a hot hatch but I personally feel its more of a warm hatch and its brawnier brother the Focus RS as a real hot hatch. The SVTFocus class would also include the Civic Si, Renault Clio Sport and VW Gti(150-200hp)

Next class up would be the the cars that break 200hp like the Focus RS and the Civic Type R. Both very fine cars, I would have definately spent the extra 5k for an RS and I'm sure many many Honda Fanboys would have hoked up the 20k for a CTR. I would consider these cars to be the definition of a hot hatch.

But then they have the Clio V6 and the VW R32, both cars i would consider in a totally different class but people seem to categorize these as also hot hatches?!?

So is a VW Gti considered a hot hatch as well as the R32 even tho one is obviously superior to the other? Anyway, I wanted to see what you guys would define a "hot hatch"
 
The GTi was the original hot hatch, but old age and a confused marketing team mean that it hardly qualifies anymore.

For me, a hot hatch is cheap, fast, a great handler and preferably a 3 door. I guess that cheapest new hot hatch it the Clio 172 or Clio 182. The Focus ST170 is more show then go, and the Civic.....too much reputation damage done to be considered a pure hot hatch.
 
I'd say the hot hatch starts with the Focus ST170 and the Clio 172. Everything above theoretically is a hot hatch as well then, although the Clio V6, the Golf R32 and the Alfa 147 GTA maybe are a bit too expensive. They're more like supreme, powerful hatches. In my eyes a hot hatch also has to be affordable, so it shouldn't be too pricey.

It should go well, corner well and look hot, but not show off. My personal favourite is the Civic Type-R by the way.

Cheers,
the Interceptor
 
I would say that a 'hot-hatch' by definition is no more than a performance orientated hatch-back.
 
And by that definition, the Renaultsport Clio V6 cannot possibly be a hot hatch - or a hatch of any variety, since it doesn't actually HAVE a hatchback. It's a two-door coupe.
 
A hatchback with a spoiler :lol: or atleast that makes it 'hot' to most boy racers ;) that and a bean can exhaust.

But yeah the original Golf GTi defined the term.
 
The mission, shall I choose to accept, is to define "hot hatch." Allow me to.

Usually, people like to refer to "hot hatches" as these hatchback cars that are tuned for looks or performance or both. I think most pop culture people like to think these machines are plain Jane hatches modded for performance. It can mean a Civic, a Focus, a Matrix, a Vibe, an Echo/Yaris/Vitz, that sort of thing. I don't use the term "hot hatch," but I would consider such machines as mean machines that want to stand out from other hatchbacks. So, a "hot hatch" is a performance-oriented hatchback in my view.

And if you note, I defined it without using "boy racer," and "rice." But that's what I think they are. Anyone care to add their own definitions? Go ahead. I'll step out of your way.
 
Famine
And by that definition, the Renaultsport Clio V6 cannot possibly be a hot hatch - or a hatch of any variety, since it doesn't actually HAVE a hatchback. It's a two-door coupe.

I've never heard of anyone refering to the Clio V6 as a hot hatch before - even though it is still a hatch-back, even if the hatch opens into the engine bay/parcel shelf.
 
the definition changes as each generation bows in, usually heavier and more leaden with frills. the power has to go up to derive the same performance as the previous generation seminal hot hatches like the GTi, 205GTi etc.

the OG GTi was what, 2400lbs if that. how much does a gen IV golf weigh?
 
Hey JohnBM01, ill counter your argument just for fun. I actually feel that a hot hatch has to be "hot" out of the factory or I don't really consider it a hot hatch. Yes you could supercharge a Matrix or turbocharge a ZX3 Focus up the wazoo and be pumping out 250hp but I still wouldn't consider it a hot hatch. I would consider it a heavily modded hatchback.

After reading some of points that you guys have brought up, I think handling is actually a big part of being a hot hatch. Maybe not as big as horsepower but the term hot hatch (to me) conjures up little quick-footed hatchbacks able to weave in and out of mountain roads as well have a decent amount of power to backup the handling.

And neanderthal, I agree with you that cars have gotten heavier every new generation, but hatches have always been at the light end of the spectrum of every new generation. For example, the current VW Gti looks obese compared to the Mk1 Gti but compared to other cars on the market today, the Gti at ~2900 is at the lighter end of the spectrum.

Sorry guys, I've just started getting into this hot hatch craze after watching a Top Gear special on Citroen Saxo (it was either top gear or fifth gear) and so I fired up the 'ol GT2 (with its much better car selection) and started to realize how many hatchbacks there are in the game. Peugeot 106 rallye, Nissan Pulsar VZ-R-N1, Mitsu Mirage Cyborg-ZP, etc. It seems hatches are popular everywhere in the world except in America.


Oh and just to clarify, the SVT Focus is the same car as the european Focus ST170 except some exterior details.
 
Having driven many thousands of miles on your American roads, i have to say that a true hot hatch (Mk1 GTi, 106 rallye, Clio Williams or Clio 182 cup etc) would be wasted on them. Your roads (mostly) are too straight, smooth, uncambered and flat. Roads like that suit your softly sprung large cars best, thats why you have them. But a hot-hatch thrieves on tight, twisty, badly surfaced roads like a lot of the roads we have in Europe, and to an extent in Japan. I drove a Mk IV Golf GTi the other week, its a great car in a lot of respects, but it feels far too big and heavy to be a 'hot-hatch' especially if you've ever driven a Mk1 GTi which feels like a Kart compared to most moderns.
 
Famine
And by that definition, the Renaultsport Clio V6 cannot possibly be a hot hatch - or a hatch of any variety, since it doesn't actually HAVE a hatchback. It's a two-door coupe.

Sorry Famine, can't agree with you here.

It does depend on your definition of a hatchback; the industry standard being that the bodywork and glass lift as one unit allowing access to the rear of the car. As apposed to a saloon in which only the bodywork lifts to allow access to the luggage area.

If you accept this definition (and Renault do) then the Clio V6 does class as a hatchback, as the entire boot structure is taken from the standard car (it's one of the few bodypanels carried over, along with the roof and bonnet).

It may not access the boot and rear passenger area (because as you know the car does not have one), but does lift as one 'hatch' unit to allow access to the engine.

By technical definition the car is a 3 door hatchback.

I have a fair bit of knowledge on the Clio V6 as I organised the dealer product launch training for the Mk1 when I worked for Renault UK and have driven the car quite extensively on both road and track.

Renault class the car as a three door hatch

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/cliov6/technicaldata.htm

Check the technical specs

The last two door Coupe made by Renault was the last generation Megane Coupe, which had a true boot (seperate from the rear screen) and as such was a two door coupe.
 

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you have forgotten the Mini Cooper S....

Cio V6 is darn cool. I suppose the Civic type R is a nice car, but I can't really respect any Honda with a Type r badge anymore, even if it is factory-issue. As Mike Rotch said.
 
Oh, right, the Mini... hmm... my top pick out of the 3 hot hatches reaching our shores would be that :cool:

The Mini's handling I heard is just awesome... it probably beats the Si...
 
To be totally literal, a hot hatch is a door on a submarine whose temperature is much greater than your own. < THat's my definition of a hot hatch. :dopey:Now, a hot hatch back, would be a honda civic si that is on fire. Just my totally worthless two cents. :)
 
Victor Vance
Well, let's see, the only real choices you have right now are the Civic Si and VW R32, now that the SVT Focus is dead :(

- Chrysler GT Cruiser
- Mazda 3s
- Mini Cooper S
- Pontiac Vibe GT
- Saab 9-2X Aero
- Subaru Impreza WRX wagon
- Toyota Matrix XRS
- Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo S

Methinks.

Anyway - the term 'hot hatch' is primarily European anyway, since that market is underdeveloped here. Though we're due for the A3, it seems.
 
I would say the 9-2X and WRX fall into the small wagon category. Maybe stupidly fast small wagon.

And as for the New Beetle, even a Turbo S could not be bought buy a straight guy, and what do women want with a hot hatch? So it must be something else.
 
skip0110
I would say the 9-2X and WRX fall into the small wagon category. Maybe stupidly fast small wagon.

Perhaps. But why? Five doors? The 3s is a hatch, not a wagon, I think we'd all agree, so shouldn't the WRX and 9-2X be allowed to compete too? Where do you draw the line on the coupe side, too - are the RSX, Celica, tC, and C-class coupe hatches?

And as for the New Beetle, even a Turbo S could not be bought buy a straight guy, and what do women want with a hot hatch? So it must be something else.

The only New Beetle Turbo S owner I know is a married man with two sons who's owned Volkswagen products all his life. It does do 0-60 in 7.4 seconds and come only with a 6-speed manual transmission, traction control, 17" wheels and sport suspension, remember.
 
Scaff, by your definition my Puma is a hot hatch then, but it's actually classed as a sports coupe.
To me a hot hatch isn't just about power and acceleration but driver involvement, sharp controls and entertaining handling. You can have only 100bhp (Sport Ka, C2 VTS etc) and still have a hot car, especially if it's light.
 
mackie
Scaff, by your definition my Puma is a hot hatch then, but it's actually classed as a sports coupe.
To me a hot hatch isn't just about power and acceleration but driver involvement, sharp controls and entertaining handling. You can have only 100bhp (Sport Ka, C2 VTS etc) and still have a hot car, especially if it's light.

Mackie, I never gave a definition of a Hot Hatch, just pointed out that the Clio V6 is a hatchback.

The true definition of a Hot Hatch is very difficult to pin down, I quite agree that a Hot Hatch should be as much about involvement, handling, etc as it is pure performance.

I would however add one additional requirement, it should be an development of an existing model, as in Renault Clio 182/5 Turbo/Williams, Pug 105 Rallye (ace car)/205 GTi/, Citroen Saxo VTR/VTS, VW Golf GTi etc.

This rules out cars such as the Puma and the Clio V6, due to either major changes in the make-up of the car (the Clio V6 shares very, very little with the rest of the Clio range) or major styling changes (the Puma may be 80% Fiesta under the skin, but the two are like chalk and cheese).

The main thing about this is that every one will have a slightly difference opinion on what a Hot Hatch is, take a look at a copy of Evo if you can. In the Knowldge (data section) they have a 'Hot Hatch' class and it includes the Clio V6, something I don't personally agree on. BTW Evo class the Puma as a Small Coupe, just like my Celica; despite the Celica being quite a bit bigger than a Puma.

See its fun this.
 
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