Developing my skills...

[kiukiu]

HAHAHA, Looking at your Avatar, it just makes me laugh when u ask that, imagining Bunta not knowing it... *No criticism intended*

Back on topic:
Stock cars work fine. It really helps you to learn how to initiate a drift as well as to hold it. Whenever I buy a new car, I'll purchase the necessary upgrades without applying it (except those like Weight Reduction and Engines) and slap on the N2 tyres to see how it reacts. Then only will I slap on the Suspension to tweak it... and lastly comes power.

Only thing bout stock is not all cars are the same and easy to drift, e.g. AE86, and Fairlady 300Z '83. It CAN drift, but you either have to know how to initiate it or be careful with it.

p.s. Anyone tried drifting the stock 300Z? It's a crazy car alright...

 

[SWAT2291]

Hmm one type of turn I can't seem to get.... Or maybe I should take them seperate is the two turns in Midway the first and fourth its like... A turn than a short straight part than another turn (EDIT:I watched Tank spankers Vid Centrifuge Volume 2 I think aboutr 3:35 secs into it, that turn but he did it reverse.. I should try that) .. I am pretty sure some of you people can take both of them at once but I usually hit the outside of the straight part or hit the inside of the beginning of the next turn. Also on long turns I usually go full throttle zero counter steer and I am thinking that I need more power to keep my wheels spinning to get more angle and not gain traction at full throttle.

 

[rsmithdrift]

p.s. Anyone tried drifting the stock ('83) 300Z? It's a crazy car alright...

It's my favorite drift car alright! (stock + LSD) I also drift an identical one to it in real life, only with 160hp instead of 220 (it's a non-turbo) Check my sig., it's refering to an '86 2-seater 300zx.

I just did a crazy straight line drift down Belvoir Ave. into a 270* into my driveway (I backed in). 👍 It started out on accident and I made it work. I love my touge run that's ONLY 1 BLOCK down the street from my house. 💡 3 haripins, 2 90* turns, one winding set of S turns (only 1.5 lanes wide though), all sideways and linked in the rain at 15-45mph. 👍

Anyways, this isn't a real life drifting experience thread, so, back on topic:
I do drift stock and it is good experience, I'm just saying (4-5 posts ^) that stock and rock are two totally different beasts of burden. They are both equally hard to drift and take a different aproach, that's all.

Swat, are you talking about turns 1a-1b (or 1, and 2) at Midfield in the Normal direction?

 

[dub_c_]

drifting stock cars is great practice for drifting any car
then when you go to mod a car, you take the stock car and add things one at a time to find at what can improve the driving and what won't

drifting with other cars is also good practice imo. good for learning speed and control.

you're on a good path SWAT

Great advice! That's how I started. It took a long time just to get the technique, but once you do it helps out for every car you drift from then on.

 

[SWAT2291]

Um..... Yes?

 

[rsmithdrift]

Um..... Yes?

Well then, those took me FOREVER. The only way I found to do them in one continous drift is to put the inside front (RF) in the dirt on the inside at the clipping point of 1a, then slide wide to put the outside rear tire off on the exit of 1a/entry 1b, then then keep the car balanced on the way through the rest of it and hope you had enough entry speed to make it the whole distance.

Good luck man. That's one of the hardest links in the game IMO.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Best way to hone your skills imho, is to take a RUF yellowbird, stock in arcade mode and put N2's on and lap the Nurburgring. This is wonderful training especially for DFP. Ive done some nice 5second drifts with consistent countersteering, as well as some double apex's and a few links.

Great place to get the feel for it. Im gonna keep going until i get a clean lap of the track. Ive only spent about 2hrs on it and already i can drift much better with DFP, than i could before...

 

[SWAT2291]

Well I use DS2 so I don't know if it would help me much. But I have drifted the ..1b I think not much angle on it though (THANKS TANKSPANKER FOR THE SETTINGS)

 

[driveanyway =p]

Hay every one i was wondering if any one finds it easyer to drift with softer suspension i get much less tankslap and the drifts are alot more smooooooooottttttthh lolz

 

[Boundary Layer]

hrm, how'd I miss this thread....

ya, all tose dual apexes at Midfield are much easier when you do the track in reverse direction.

Well I use DS2 so I don't know if it would help me much. But I have drifted the ..1b I think not much angle on it though (THANKS TANKSPANKER FOR THE SETTINGS)

which settings are you referring to there? those old sileighty ones?

eesh, those are scary settings. So unbalanced, especially when you toss the wing on - barely have to turn in and you're sideways. But, guess I'm glad you're enjoying them.

If you are infact using a sileighty, you should really try out DR's settings. They're quite a bit better IMO, not to mention newer. I did mine while I was still trying to figure out the driving physics in GT4 - they're slipperier than they really need to be.

Hay every one i was wondering if any one finds it easyer to drift with softer suspension i get much less tankslap and the drifts are alot more smooooooooottttttthh lolz

of course you have less snap understeer with soft suspension in GT4. The lateral weight transition is slower - meaning the car behaves less twitchy. It gives you that much more time to correct before things go and get really ugly.

 

[SWAT2291]

Nah I used your 90' Supra settings and I did use DR's Sileighty settings both are great I still can't control them well but I'm getting there.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

Hey but TS, what if you would lower it and make it REAL STIFF. There wouldn't be any weight shifting or snap back right? Or not as fast....I dunno though, just imagining it now.

 

[TRi]

take a stock cappucino (or similar k-car) out. learn ya some feinting action action action without much spinout. should make the rest of the cars much easier.

 

[Boundary Layer]

Nah I used your 90' Supra settings and I did use DR's Sileighty settings both are great I still can't control them well but I'm getting there.

oh, hehe, ok. Those ones are a bit better then.

Hey but TS, what if you would lower it and make it REAL STIFF. There wouldn't be any weight shifting or snap back right? Or not as fast....I dunno though, just imagining it now.

totally the opposite of what you're thinking... but I can sort of see how logic might suggest that.

This isn't a spot on analysis because there are complex... things 💡 like stabilizer bars at play, but for our purposes the amount of weight shifted is proportional to the acceleration experienced by the vehicle. It's Newtonian Mechanics - Newton's Second Law, F=ma.
Altering the stiffness of the suspension does not affect to a large part how much lateral or longitudinal force is experienced by the car. That all comes down to how quickly the car is capable of braking, accelerating, or changing directions.

Suspension setup only affects the rate at which this transfer occurs. A soft setup with more dive and roll has less drastic movements and is far more fogiving due to its slow transfer rate. The opposite holds true for stiffer setups.

As an easy examply, look at F1 cars (I know you're a little bit of an F1 fan). They run super low to the ground and have ultra stiff suspension. They have next to no body roll, but still experience upwards of 3G's of lateral force in some corners. The driver's necks get a huge huge workout on long duration corners or through quick changes in direction. And do not try telling me that an F1 car is not twitchy.

 

[rsmithdrift]

Suspension setup only affects the rate at which this transfer occurs. A soft setup with more dive and roll has less drastic movements and is far more fogiving due to its slow transfer rate. The opposite holds true for stiffer setups.

I believe a medium setup is best for drifting. A soft set up will snap worse and more uncontrollably than a stiff one if you make a mistake. Like if you correct roughly, instead of a smooth gradually transition, the car will violently go from having all the load on the left to having all the load on the right VERY quickly. I should know, I have a 86 300zx with 140k on stock suspension.

A stiff set-up will do the same, it's just easier to do it and it does it with less suspension movement which means it won't do it near as violently.

A medium set up, however, will absorb your mistake with a smooth weight shift from left to right and a smooth, perfect amount of suspension movement. Sometimes it will make the mistake unnoticable.
A good medium set up is stiff enough that it wont bottom out the suspension or make the long violent movements, but soft enough that it can travel far enough to ABSORB the impact, be it a bump in the road or gravitational forces/momentum acting on the car.

I believe this is the best way to set up a car NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE USING IT FOR. The only thing that determines a drift car from a race car is the balance of the front and rear suspension (ie. which end is stiffer and which is softer) and of course which side of the overall stiff/soft balance you lean on should depend on how bumpy the track is and your ride hight. There are always sacrifices made when setting up the suspension.

Sorry for rambling on, but that's my take on suspension.

 

[Boundary Layer]

in retrospect, I should clarify my comments:

By 'less drastic movements' I was referring to trajectory. A softer car is not quite as nimble as a stiffer one. Minute steering inputs are less noticeable with them and take more time to pan out, therefore if you should over-correct you will have a tad more time to correct your over-correction. You follow?

Yes, the body roll can appear quite drastic, and left unchecked it will whip the car around just as fast as a poorly timed countersteering manouever on a stiffer car.
And also as rsmith says, it is entirely possible to go too soft in your setup and create an uncontrollable floor-scraping, bump-stop crunching monster.

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

As an easy examply, look at F1 cars (I know you're a little bit of an F1 fan). They run super low to the ground and have ultra stiff suspension. They have next to no body roll, but still experience upwards of 3G's of lateral force in some corners. The driver's necks get a huge huge workout on long duration corners or through quick changes in direction. And do not try telling me that an F1 car is not twitchy.

Cool, I learned something new:idea: Thanks. I thought that if you would drift with a very stiff car, it would be like that ice hockey pad, that black thing. No movement at all, just slide. But I dunno where that imagination comes from.

I learned something new
BTW this is why I love soft suspension. The swings make it more predictable most of the time. And before a corner, I love to wiggle with the back, like I'm fighting with the car in a way like "FREAKIN THING, BREAKE LOOSE A'IGHT??!" but offcourse I can initiate a drift with ONE feint so that wiggling is fake But it also needs loose suspension:tup:

I hope I can afford a capture card soon, so I can show you this wiggling, it's so cool. I saved a replay full of it, of an AMG E55 on N2's on suzuka circuit, I'm in love with this car

Arcade: Merc E55 N2's on SUZUKA! No quick power increase or weight reduction

I believe a medium setup is best for drifting. A soft set up will snap worse and more uncontrollably than a stiff one if you make a mistake. Like if you correct roughly, instead of a smooth gradually transition, the car will violently go from having all the load on the left to having all the load on the right VERY quickly. I should know, I have a 86 300zx with 140k on stock suspension.

It's not that difficult to control it though, and I like rough exits with drifting.

 

[Boundary Layer]

Cool, I learned something new:idea: Thanks. I thought that if you would drift with a very stiff car, it would be like that ice hockey pad, that black thing. No movement at all, just slide. But I dunno where that imagination comes from.

Pucks, they call them pucks. Another something new.

well, this is getting close to that dashed line where it becomes difficult to reply without opening a can of worms. Things happen in GT4 that are not spot on realistic. You can only reply logically for so long, at some point you just have to accept the game for what it is and obey the physics that it presents to you.

In real world physics if you totally remove suspension travel from a car, or go way too stiff with it, you remove most of its ability to absorb cornering load in the chassis. Meaning you hit the limits of lateral adhesion faster because almost the entire cornering load must be dealt with by the tires (which have become bald and horribly deformed by this point).
You have to find some comprimise where the car is quick and nimble and can change direction quickly, but you also need the ability to handle a sustained cornering load. Rule of thumb I've come across while talking to SAE Formula members is never set a car's suspension stiffer than its chassis.

Now then, the last time I tried to do this in GT4 it didnt work. The more I increased the suspension stiffness, the more lateral grip I seemed to get. It's been a while since I played around with this stuff, and I'm sure someone will be so diligent as to point out several in game exceptions to what I've just typed (sukerkin, maturin, greyout and m-spec, please keep your distance). But as far as I'm concerned when putting together a drift setup, I believe this to be true.

I feel silly rehashing this because it's been mentioned many many times before by myself and others:
In addition, in real world physics setting the rear stiffer than the front is almost a surefire way to develop oversteer for reasons mentioned above (stiff setup hits limits of adhesion quicker) - this almost never works in GT4, instead you get understeer at turn-in.

 

[SWAT2291]

Wow my thread is popular! lol I'm gonna start reading all of it now