DFGT Motor Mod

  • Thread starter Thread starter zepotatox
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Hi, I saw this video of a guy doing a mod to his dfgt making it a lot faster but his instructions weren't very clear and I was wondering if you guys could help me do this to my dfgt?

 
I was just about to say the same thing. Did he change to a non-stock motor or something? On an unrelated note: never EVER try to drill sheet metal like he did in the video while holding it in your hand. That's a good way to earn yourself a trip to the ER for a whole lot of stitches when the drill grabs on break through our pulls itself in and grabs. The reason he might have had a hard time drilling it is because for most stampings like that they use cold formed steel, and after stamping like that it can work harden. It's pretty likely that he had a dull drill also though, which only makes it worse.
 
He moved the motor from one side to the other. Reversed thr polarity.
Cleaned and filed some plastic piece
And made it creak.
 
How do you make the DFGT spin faster? I'd like to do a mod similar to this.
 
To make a motor spin faster you need more voltage, but that can only be done if the board components have enough headroom. The other possibility is changing to a different motor wound for higher RPM, but that usually draws more amperage, which may also exceed the board components' headroom.
 
How do you make the DFGT spin faster? I'd like to do a mod similar to this.

It's not completely straightforward if you want to do it properly. Ideally you'd build an entirely new wheel and only take the DFGT's logic board, but if you can find a replacement higher power motor that fits and it doesn't strip the feedback gears, it can be done using the DFGT's chassis.

To make a motor spin faster you need more voltage, but that can only be done if the board components have enough headroom. The other possibility is changing to a different motor wound for higher RPM, but that usually draws more amperage, which may also exceed the board components' headroom.

I think the components you're referring to are the FETs, I think they're probably MOSFETs. It's been a while since I looked at my DFP's board (because I lost it) but if I recall correctly (though I may be getting mixed up with something I read about the G27) there are two surface mount dual FET ICs that interface the microcontroller with the motor. A FET (field effect transistor) is a voltage-controlled electronic switch, in theory if you got similar FETs, i.e. with similar gate voltages, maximum switching frequency, etc. but with higher power handing ability (probably something in a TO-220 package or bigger) you could switch whatever you wanted; speakers, stadium lights, an air horn... I'm not sure what use any of that would be, but you totally could do it.

Anyway, Google 'full bridge motor driver', that circuit is (if I remember correctly) basically what the DFP and G27 use; one pair of FETs to turn the motor one way, the other pair to turn it the other way. If you look at the two small ICs nearest the motor's connection to the board you should be able to read the label on them to find the datasheet for the FETs inside them, then you can use the spec on that datasheet to help find good replacements. Also look into 'pulse width modulation', I'm not 100% on this (I don't have an oscilloscope so I can't test it for myself) but I'd be surprised if the microcontroller in Logitech's wheels don't use PWM to control the feedback of their motors. PWM is basically a method of getting 'analogue' signals from a digital source; you have a rectangular waveform with a regular period (frequency), but the duty cycle (ratio of 'on' time to 'off' time) changes from 0% to 100% to give the effect of an analogue voltage. I'm guessing here but I think the microcontroller sends the output as four PWM signals to the four FETs to control the feedback motors. Replace the FETs, turn up the current and/or voltage supplied to the uprated motor (where you'll find one that fits AND allows you to mount the optical encoder on it is beyond me, though, hint: look for a dual shaft motor) and you should, theoretically, be good to go.

Three practical problems, though:
1. What if the 12V input is powering more than just the motors? You'll need to work that one out yourself because I've lost all the research I did into mapping out the DFP's logic board. If the barrel jack connector does just go straight into the MOSFETs separately from the rest of the board you're ok, if not then you'll kill something else when you increase the voltage.
2. The added strain on the DFGT's feedback gears will shorten their life. Best to consider converting it to belt drive... Now there's a thought, it'd be quieter and smoother too. That might also solve the optical encoder problem since you could just mount it elsewhere, but then you have to design the pulley system so that it rotates in the correct proportion to the wheel.
3. Cooling. If you were to find a 48V 2A motor the FET will be handling almost 100W (I think, it's late and I'm tired). That's a lot of power, you'd need a heatsink for each FET and definitely a fan if you wanted to put it in an enclosure. Also maybe casts for your freshly fractured wrists. While you could go that high, you'd have to be mad. I think it'll all depend on the motors you find, really, if you can find some 24V 2A dual shaft motors with the same diameter, length and shaft diameter then I'd start there.

There are probably cheaper, easier, hackier ways of doing it, but this is what I planned to do until I lost my DFP's logic board, failed to source suitable motors then lost interest and bought a G27.
 
Right, Neema, I was trying to keep it simple, I would imagine you just blew his mind, :D. Everything you posted is good accurate information though... guess we'll see if he makes any use of it. FWIW, the FETs on the DFGT are hexfets made by IR IIRC, but I was unable to find anything related to the number on them. Also, I'm pretty sure they are using PWM, as Fanatec definitely is (Ive scoped mine) and I'm sure Thrustmaster is also since they're running a motor that stalls at about 9+ amps with something like a 5-6 amp power supply.
 
Right, Neema, I was trying to keep it simple, I would imagine you just blew his mind, :D. Everything you posted is good accurate information though... guess we'll see if he makes any use of it. FWIW, the FETs on the DFGT are hexfets made by IR IIRC, but I was unable to find anything related to the number on them. Also, I'm pretty sure they are using PWM, as Fanatec definitely is (Ive scoped mine) and I'm sure Thrustmaster is also since they're running a motor that stalls at about 9+ amps with something like a 5-6 amp power supply.

I thought it might be a bit heavy but this question seems to come up semi-regularly and I can't recall reading a response that laid it all (well, sort of all) out! It's not an easy mod to do yourself because as you said, there's more to it than just swapping out the motor. There used to be a mod kit you could buy for the G25 and I seem to recall hearing that Leo Bodnar has been on the verge of releasing a clone of the G27 board which allows you to use different motors for a while but he hasn't released it yet and I heard about that in 2012.

I remember finding a blog where the author blew the FETs on his G27, he couldn't find the same ICs (I think they were discontinued) but he found some replacements, I'll see if I can find that again since it might be helpful.

Also I forgot that you know electronics, I feel silly for responding to your post in that manner! I thought I recognised your name but I couldn't remember why.
 
Nah, don't worry about it...good on ya' - you gave a lot more info than I did. I find that most of the time getting too in-depth is futile, as most guys who think about this are convinced they can just drop in a motor from an RC car and go to town. I have had some actually argue with me about it.
 
I have had some actually argue with me about it.

Wow, that's... Wow. It's kind of funny but also kind of sad that the default thought process is 'this will work because why wouldn't it?', if you applied the same logic to a car you'd have people assuming you can just drop an LS3 into an MX-5 (sorry, Miata) and leave the propshaft, driveshafts and maybe even transmission and everything will be fine... Education is the only way around this, though, and the basic level of electrical/electronics education in the UK is barely sufficient to replace a plug or light bulb.

Ok, I think I found what I was looking for: http://jumpingspider.co.uk/logitech-g25-repair-method. It's from a G25 but I think they all work the same way as far as the FETs are concerned, the G25 used IRF7103 dual N-channel (datasheet here) and IRF7342 dual P-channel (datasheet here) HEXFET (seems to be a trade name for IR's power MOSFETs?) ICs and I can't recall reading that the G27 used a different power supply or that the feedback was stronger, so it might be safe to assume the FETs are at least compatible with - if not the same as - these ones. I'd also bet that the FETs in the DFGT are the same story since they both use 24V supplies and it makes sense for Logitech to use common parts where possible, but this is just conjecture at this point.

Anyway, long story short, if you want to put a more powerful motor in your racing wheel - and do it properly - you need to do more than just swap the motor.
 
I still don't know exactly what is supposed to be happening with that mod. Somebody posted a vid of it a while back but I can never get a clear idea of what the heck is going on. I'm guessing they're removing a gear reduction and switching to a direct drive - which will let the wheel spin faster but will also reduce the wheel torque. Not sure if that's what is going on or not though, I can't get a clear enough idea of how the mechanism functions from the photos or the older video.
 
I still don't know exactly what is supposed to be happening with that mod. Somebody posted a vid of it a while back but I can never get a clear idea of what the heck is going on. I'm guessing they're removing a gear reduction and switching to a direct drive - which will let the wheel spin faster but will also reduce the wheel torque. Not sure if that's what is going on or not though, I can't get a clear enough idea of how the mechanism functions from the photos or the older video.

Yep, this is exactly what's going on.

Essentially, you're taking the optical sensor off it's own shaft, attaching it to the back of the feedback motor (as per dfp), then removing the motor and relocating it to the side the optical sensor was originally on. To make it all work, you obviously need to replace the gear on the motor shaft with the one from the optical sensor shaft, which requires filing down to fit in this manner. Then, as you've swapped the motor to the opposite side, you reverse it's polarity.

The result? The wheel spins much MUCH faster than standard, which makes the wheel a lot better to use, as the dfgt spins really slowly, and has a lot of inbuilt friction, which makes it especially bad for drifting. The wheel responds much quicker, and makes about half the noise as it does standard, as you've taken a number of gears out.

There are two downsides:
1. the force feedback is SIGNIFICANTLY weakened, because you have altered the ratio, which is what speeds it up, it also makes the feedback very weak.
2. the motor shaft and optical sensor gear don't fit well together, so you need to glue them together, preferably with a high quality two part epoxy. But this epoxy, no matter how good, will inevitably break, and require re-doing.

I know all of this, because I did this exact mod to my dfgt. I decided that trading the feedback strength for wheel speed and response was worth it. Which for me, it absolutely was. Not everyone would prefer it this way though. The epoxy actually broke in mine the other day, for the second time (the wheel's been modded a couple of months). This isn't a problem, as you can get a replacement steel gear from an rc supplier, that won't require gluing in place, removing the weak link in the original mod.

Hope that helps! Of course, I will answer any questions you have about it.
 
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