Dissapointed in Racing Tires

[LS Chiou]

I have complained about this in the very early stage of this game, and more than once. It just has done the update of ver. 1.07 and this issue still remains.

I haven't used racing tires (or attended the events preferring racing tires) for quite a while. Just got this feeling again in the latest seasonal event with BMW VGT.

So little feel can be obtained from the steering wheel when driving this car (with RH). The limit of grip is too vague to detect and deal with. With such tire, I can't communicate with the car well enough. I feel so bad that I have to watch the replay of top player to know the cornering limit, instead of feel it myself. By trying more, I might have found out myself, but the process is not fun at all and I'd rather spend my time elsewhere. (In my memory, the situations are similar in other cars with racing tires.)

Sport tires, OTOH, although provide lower grip, give more information and more enjoyable to drive. How the tires grip, slip and lock are clearly presented. And there's intensive interaction between the car and me. That's driving!

Is anyone feeling the same with me?

Why, and is it really that way in real life?

 

[NOSWaster]

Racing tires should be less communicative about when they're breaking free. In the sim we can use sounds to our advantage. We get less feedback in general, but the game makes for that by giving audible clues as to when a tire has reached its maximum grip threshold. Listening for it may be helpful, and eventually (if you're on a wheel) you'll be able to connect that to the FFB feel at that point.

That's how I do it, at least. I listen for the limit since that's more reliable than feeling for it.

 

[Azure Flare]

I think you're not driving the car hard enough to get to that maximum grip level.

 

[eclipsee]

Is anyone feeling the same with me?

I can't agree more with you, RH tires have a weird behavior in GT6, all you need to do to fix that is play to Assetto Corsa, you'll agree that's how a racing tire behaves, beware, likely you won't come back to GT6.

 

[starcarper]

If you go into the settings of the BMW VGT you'll notice Camber is set to 3.0 and 1.5 on this car. Maybe that could be why you don't think the grip is so good on RH tyres.

When you see things like this it makes you wonder if PD is actually using these cars on a different build than the one we are on. That is where a camber change from anything other than 0 actually makes the car better to control.

 

[ColouredBadger]

If you go into the settings of the BMW VGT you'll notice Camber is set to 3.0 and 1.5 on this car. Maybe that could be why you don't think the grip is so good on RH tyres.

When you see things like this it makes you wonder if PD is actually using these cars on a different build than the one we are on. That is where a camber change from anything other than 0 actually makes the car better to control.

I use camber heavy setups and have done from day one. Some of my cars have started on 0 camber and I use up to 5 on the rear tyres for Touring Cars. You're just not setting the cars up right. You can make cars turn on a sixpence with RH tyres. I've got a ZR-1 Race Car that turns sharply in all corners on RH Tyres and even an R8 LMS Ultra that handles just as well as a GT-R.

I don't think there is any bug or anything wrong with the systems, you're all just not doing it right and then blaming the tools instead.

Race Tyres are fine and there's never been anything wrong with them. In my opinion

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have complained about this in the very early stage of this game, and more than once. It just has done the update of ver. 1.07 and this issue still remains.

I haven't used racing tires (or attended the events preferring racing tires) for quite a while. Just got this feeling again in the latest seasonal event with BMW VGT.

So little feel can be obtained from the steering wheel when driving this car (with RH). The limit of grip is too vague to detect and deal with. With such tire, I can't communicate with the car well enough. I feel so bad that I have to watch the replay of top player to know the cornering limit, instead of feel it myself. By trying more, I might have found out myself, but the process is not fun at all and I'd rather spend my time elsewhere. (In my memory, the situations are similar in other cars with racing tires.)

Sport tires, OTOH, although provide lower grip, give more information and more enjoyable to drive. How the tires grip, slip and lock are clearly presented. And there's intensive interaction between the car and me. That's driving!

Is anyone feeling the same with me?

Why, and is it really that way in real life?

I didn't try the car with Sports tires but I agree that it provides very little feedback to the wheel as it is in the TT. To detect the rear end kicking out under hard acceleration or cornering is a matter of visual and aural cues, there's pretty much nothing coming through the the wheel to indicate this. It's almost like driving with a DS3 but using a wheel to do so.

I use camber heavy setups and have done from day one. Some of my cars have started on 0 camber and I use up to 5 on the rear tyres for Touring Cars. You're just not setting the cars up right. You can make cars turn on a sixpence with RH tyres. I've got a ZR-1 Race Car that turns sharply in all corners on RH Tyres and even an R8 LMS Ultra that handles just as well as a GT-R.

I don't think there is any bug or anything wrong with the systems, you're all just not doing it right and then blaming the tools instead.

Race Tyres are fine and there's never been anything wrong with them. In my opinion

Take a moment to read the OP because it's obvious you haven't gotten around to it yet. The OP's issue is not the handling of the car, it's the feedback to the wheel.

So little feel can be obtained from the steering wheel when driving this car (with RH). The limit of grip is too vague to detect and deal with

This is generally true for all cars in GT relative to other PC games I've played, there is very little feedback through the wheel. Driving quickly in GT is more about knowing what the car is going to do and placing it in the right spot as you would with a DS3, rather than feeling your way around the track and responding to the conditions. With this car/TT combo for example, when the rear wheels spin and start to break loose, you don't feel very much if anything through the wheel, you just have to figure it out by looking at the image on the screen rotating the wrong way and listen to the tires begin to squeal.

 

[BrandonW77]

I had the same issue with the new BMW TT. I very rarely use racing tires and when I do I'm utterly useless on them because there's even less info coming through my wheel than normal. It also seems like minor inputs result in major reactions, a small correction through a twitchy corner results in a grand tank-slapper that ends with the car in the sand. It was a thoroughly unenjoyable experience and made me hate racing tires even more than I already did. I tried the same car on the same seasonal on SS tires and it was an immensely more enjoyable experience. Although, as Mr. Penso stated, the FFB on GT is very much inferior to any PC game. I had a brief foray with iRacing (before the PC died) and I was utterly shocked at the FFB my G27 produced (the same G27 I used for GT5).

 

[starcarper]

I use camber heavy setups and have done from day one. Some of my cars have started on 0 camber and I use up to 5 on the rear tyres for Touring Cars. You're just not setting the cars up right. You can make cars turn on a sixpence with RH tyres. I've got a ZR-1 Race Car that turns sharply in all corners on RH Tyres and even an R8 LMS Ultra that handles just as well as a GT-R.

I don't think there is any bug or anything wrong with the systems, you're all just not doing it right and then blaming the tools instead.

Race Tyres are fine and there's never been anything wrong with them. In my opinion

I'm not saying that it's wrong and I am not a tuner at all but I do know when I changed both values on the BMW down to 0 on both then it became a more readable, controlled beast.

All I'm saying is that maybe the reason the OP finds RH tyres tougher to read on the mentioned BMW could be that the camber does not suit. He said himself that to read how to drive quicker then he had to watch and copy the quicker drivers.

That to me says he is used to the more grip of a 0,0 setup as am I. I myself struggle to drive cars with higher camber settings but again I'm no tuner and am only an average driver.

 

[VBR]

Why, and is it really that way in real life?

I can't answer why PD have modeled racing tyres to behave this way in GT6. However, I have driven 1 car on full slick hard tyres in real life, & can tell you what that felt like. The car had lots of progressive slip & it was very easy to get the rear end out of shape & gather it back up again. The only thing in GT6 that feels similar to this imo are comfort soft tyres. The racing tyres in GT5 Prologue felt much more like the reality that I experienced, GT5 & GT6 don't even come close.

 

[Rafael F]

Racing tires feels weird, when you think everything is ok, it instantly loses grip.
With sports and comfort tires the loss of grip is much smoother.

 

[KWZX10]

I'm just a poor ds3 player so i can't really talk about the way R tyres feels on a wheel, but something about R tyres feels strange.
Cars that drives nicely on sport hard have strange reactions on R tyres.
I've also noticed they like a bit too much to go on two wheels, but maybe it's just me..

 

[brianwong]

I'm just a poor ds3 player so i can't really talk about the way R tyres feels on a wheel, but something about R tyres feels strange.
Cars that drives nicely on sport hard have strange reactions on R tyres.
I've also noticed they like a bit too much to go on two wheels, but maybe it's just me..

When you add more grip it's a natural thing for a car to get on two wheels.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I use camber heavy setups and have done from day one. Some of my cars have started on 0 camber and I use up to 5 on the rear tyres for Touring Cars. You're just not setting the cars up right. You can make cars turn on a sixpence with RH tyres. I've got a ZR-1 Race Car that turns sharply in all corners on RH Tyres and even an R8 LMS Ultra that handles just as well as a GT-R.

I don't think there is any bug or anything wrong with the systems, you're all just not doing it right and then blaming the tools instead.

Race Tyres are fine and there's never been anything wrong with them. In my opinion

I don't know if they fixed it in the latest patch or not but camber was broken up through 1.06. Any camber added to the car reduced the grip where added. Some cars would actually drive a bit better with some camber under certain conditions but they have less grip. In every test case setting camber to 0 and then balancing the under/over steer using ARB and/or suspension resulted in faster laps with every type of tire tested.

 

[LS Chiou]

Thanks for you guys' responses.

I do listen to the tires, it does help, to a degree. A down side is, race cars tend to have loud exhausts and sometime overwhelm other sounds. (The race tires are mostly used with those race cars, aren't they? Duh.)

As to the BMW VGT's default setting, yes I saw that big cambers. I turned them down and it feels much better indeed. Also, I noticed the cambers do have some kind of effects, but I haven't tried enough to figure out the camber bug is 'solved' or not. Something seems right, some others seem not...

It's a real shame that GT can't sim the race tires right, be it 'not real' or worse than other games. Sigh~

 

[ColouredBadger]

I don't know if they fixed it in the latest patch or not but camber was broken up through 1.06. Any camber added to the car reduced the grip where added. Some cars would actually drive a bit better with some camber under certain conditions but they have less grip. In every test case setting camber to 0 and then balancing the under/over steer using ARB and/or suspension resulted in faster laps with every type of tire tested.

I have never had this issue. Even on version 1.01. I may have been lucky and got the right cars but I think it's more to do with how you set it.

Again, I could have been lucky because the only bugs I've encountered are the sound bugs. Didn't even get the Pit-Stop one online at any point ever. Unless UK Versions are better because we host the GT Academy Finals.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I have never had this issue. Even on version 1.01. I may have been lucky and got the right cars but I think it's more to do with how you set it.

Again, I could have been lucky because the only bugs I've encountered are the sound bugs. Didn't even get the Pit-Stop one online at any point ever. Unless UK Versions are better because we host the GT Academy Finals.

I tested several cars early on. For example I had a car that would understeer slightly with no camber on it. I added a little camber to the front to get a better contact patch in the corners. Where that should have helped it made it worse instead. I added some camber to the rear and removed it from the front and the car cornered better not because it had more grip in the front but because it lost more grip in the rear.

Every case, every car, every track, every tire I tested with showed a loss of grip when camber was added and fastest lap times were always achieved with camber set at 0/0. There has been mention of this in lots of threads here on the forums. Some people have been fooled into thinking it is working but it really hasn't

 

[KWZX10]

When you add more grip it's a natural thing for a car to get on two wheels.

When a skyline r32 does that suddendly in a slow turn something isn't right lol

(without touching curbs or stuff like that, i mean)

 

[brianwong]

When a skyline r32 does that suddendly in a slow turn something isn't right lol

(without touching curbs or stuff like that, i mean)

Gravity is also very weirdly low in GT6

 

[gtracedriver1]

I also have lot of problem with it. Very poor grip level and you are never sure about it. It is very difficult to push the car and have no option but to drive conservatively only. So easy to make mistakes. Very annoying.