Do pedals improve lap times?

[Puggy]

Hi, first post here

I was wondering whether pedals make a difference to lap times?....or is it mainly the wheel?

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

This depends on the game but in most cases a good set of pedals will make more of a difference in lap times than the wheel. Ex. If I had to choose in Iracing between DFGT with CSP vs GT2/3 with standard pedals I would pick DFGT with CSP. Dale Earnhardt Jr use a G27 wheel with $700 CST pedals which are as real as pedals get.

 

[Puggy]

Interesting ZZ....I asked this type of thing at Racedepartment or wherever it was, and they just said keep practicing, no-one said boo about my pedals{DFGT standard}.

But I'm beginning to think that the pedals are critical to both speed and consistency as a smooth entry ensures you stay on the racing line for a good exit etc.

Anyway, I'm still prepared to hear other opinions on the matter, but even with a sponge placed behind my brake pedal, it barely makes a difference, so my plan is to buy a G27, and attempt this upgrade path....

nixhim brake mod
arc brake mod

And ultimately a set of CSP's if I still think that the modified G27's are holding me back.

 

[Puggy]

Actually, I might bypass the arc mod, so if the nixim doesn't work wonders, then I'll go straight to the CSP
I had a guy outbrake me into T1 at Monza, he didn't overtake me, he just braked later on the inside of the track, and still made the chicane despite being off the racing line......I asked him what wheel he had and he said a G25.

 

[Jose']

I think a wheel is nothing without a good set of pedals (in terms of improving lap times). They are what allows you to regulate the acceleration and breaking in corners precisely.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

Actually, I might bypass the arc mod, so if the nixim doesn't work wonders, then I'll go straight to the CSP
I had a guy outbrake me into T1 at Monza, he didn't overtake me, he just braked later on the inside of the track, and still made the chicane despite being off the racing line......I asked him what wheel he had and he said a G25.

That also could have been his brake bias setup also, sometimes i bump the brakes up to 10/10 and bump the abs up a little and divebomb my corners as i do when i race shorttrack ovals

 

[shaun_ccxr]

definitely yes! As u can have more precise control on the gas and brake, it's more important than the wheel I think

 

[Puggy]

That also could have been his brake bias setup also, sometimes i bump the brakes up to 10/10 and bump the abs up a little and divebomb my corners as i do when i race shorttrack ovals

That sounds like GT5, but I meant GTR Evolution.....

 

[Puggy]

I think a wheel is nothing without a good set of pedals (in terms of improving lap times). They are what allows you to regulate the acceleration and breaking in corners precisely.

I think you're right, that said, and I only say this for the sake of it.....if I turn on driver aids in Simbin games, I'm nearly 3seconds a lap faster, so it's really full sim modes that seem to require a precise beefy pedal.

I hope to have the wheel{G27} within a matter of weeks, then I can experiment with the nixim mod and move to CSP if I'm unsatisfied.

I'm at the point where I can't break any of my lap times no matter what I do

 

[AGP5000]

Well Puggy, this is purely IMO, but I am sure some do agree with me. They definitely do, only if you have them set for YOU. I have a set of the Fanatec CSP's. I used them stock(out of box) for about 2 months. They are a great improvement over the standards and my last wheel(Microsoft Wheel)

To me, the gas and clutch were to free, and had little to no resistance. So, I watched Thomas' tutorial on dis and re-assembling the pedals to tune them. Made it real easy for anyone to do so themselves. I am NOT a tinkerer, but after watching that, it's a piece of cake. Initial adjustments were new spring on gas and clutch, and move brake bar up 1 notch to shorten throw. Brake was perfect, made clutch accidentally freer, and gas way too tight.

So, last night I re-took them apart, and made some more adjustments. This time, proper springs for gas and clutch(they were perfect after testing them out) Also flipped the spacer in-between the pedal plate, and pedal itself for a different foot angle on the pedal. For me, its nearly as real as it gets minus inverting them. I will eventually do it, but in time and when I complete my cock-pit.

In the end, I can now feather the gas EXACTLY how I want to, and the brake reacts as to how I want it to. It is important when you make the adjustments with the tuning kit, you make them for YOU.

Here are some pics,

Last note, I also move the clutch pedal over a notch. It just feels right to me that way. It is crucial to have a steady gas/brake/clutch abilities. If you can achieve this, you WILL cut time off of your laps. I took a little over .300 (54.2 to a 53.8-9) from Pocono with the Silverado on iRacing with the brake adjustment alone.

 

[Shark33]

Great:tup: I don't have this tuning kit yet, but I want to put the break one hole up. As I see it's not hard but where is the load cell cable what you disconnected before you started the work? From where do I have to pull it out?

 

[Spagetti69]

I would say the pedals give more advantage than the wheel, definitely.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think better pedals improve consistency mainly, and maybe help you gain a few tenths depending how good / bad you are with the not so good ones. The only force feedback wheel I have used is the DFGT and same goes for pedals and I find them OK and they get the job done.

I think if I upgraded to a better wheel then it might gain me more consistency and maybe slightly more speed due to maybe a smoother / tighter and quicker steering as well as more feedback from pedals to feel how much I'm braking and accelerating better.

 

[AGP5000]

@Shark, I did not even remove it. Could not figure out how to lol. BUT, if you maneuver carefully, it is not hard to just be careful. And you need a very small allenwrench to move the brake throw.

I can say I have become a much more lethal driver by adjusting the pedals to how I like them. Definitely taken tenths upon tenths off at most tracks, especially road courses.

 

[Puggy]

I have a set of the Fanatec CSP's..

They really do seem to be one of the best things ever made for PC racing.
They must be a joy to use, and look indestructible:tup:👍
I can't wait to get the G27{probably 4-5weeks away}, see what that does to my times......then I'll add the nixim mod, but if I'm still struggling under "pedals", CSP's here I come.

thx for the snaps.

 

[Puggy]

The only force feedback wheel I have used is the DFGT and same goes for pedals and I find them OK and they get the job done.

One thing people reading this need to remember is that the DFGT is without question a brilliant arcade wheel "set", cause if you turn on the ABS, and TC, there are no problems with either pedal, in fact, I won over 200 online races in F1 2010, but I had most of the driving aids on, so for GT5 or Shift2 etc, a DFGT is definately worth it, even GTR Evolution/RaceON etc are epically easy with the aids on.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

One thing people reading this need to remember is that the DFGT is without question a brilliant arcade wheel "set", cause if you turn on the ABS, and TC, there are no problems with either pedal, in fact, I won over 200 online races in F1 2010, but I had most of the driving aids on, so for GT5 or Shift2 etc, a DFGT is definately worth it, even GTR Evolution/RaceON etc are epically easy with the aids on.

DFGT is not a bad wheel especially as you pointed out with a few aids on (Iracing has none). With DFGT I set abs to 1 in Gt5 yet with G27 with load cell mod or CSP I turn off abs.

Sounds like you are good driver. A good driver with an average set of wheel/pedals will beat an average driver with a good set of wheel/pedals. A good set of pedals will improve your lap times but it will not automatically win you the race. You still need to practice.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

One thing people reading this need to remember is that the DFGT is without question a brilliant arcade wheel "set", cause if you turn on the ABS, and TC, there are no problems with either pedal, in fact, I won over 200 online races in F1 2010, but I had most of the driving aids on, so for GT5 or Shift2 etc, a DFGT is definately worth it, even GTR Evolution/RaceON etc are epically easy with the aids on.

I wouldn't quite call it an arcade wheel "set". Anyway I think you can be fast with it, as good as any of the top people even without aids on. Daniel Holland used to use one and he was probably the fastest driver with that wheel and pedal set. In GT5, you only need ABS 1 and more or less everyone uses ABS in GT5 as it is the quickest way. I doubt many play the game without ABS.

Anyway I have played Ferrari Virtual Academy and that is without ABS and TC for the actual Hot Lap mode and the pedals work fine there to be fast. The two main criticisms I have with the wheel is the noise and steering speed. The pedal criticisms are that it is hard to just dab the brakes without travelling to far in. That goes back to why I think that if you upgrade, you should have better consistency. The main reason why I put up with it is the shifting buttons being so easy to press and also official compatibility with GT5 and having all the buttons on the wheel so no need for having an extra controller near by.

 

[Puggy]

You still need to practice.

Thing is, under brakes in sims with aids off, it's very difficult to control the car, so I'm forced to run higher front brake bias and often lower pressure as well{compared to say Dracer sets up from Simbin}, and whilst this allows me to be smoother, the brakes still lock and I have limited braking power and control compared to good drivers in G25/27 who can slay me under brakes....even if my lap time is faster than there's.

Do I need more practice, no question, but unless I can fix the brakes and to some degree the accelerator pedal, I'm not going to be able to pick up the 2-3secs I'm looking for.

I'm also 3-4seconds slower with all aids off in F1 2010....but with the aids on, I'm always a threat to win.

Some people might say winning isn't everything, but it's also about having a stable car under you, and not having the guy behind rear end you cause of poor braking.

I'm also looking forward to a leather wheel as opposed to the hard plastic of the DFGT.

As I said, stage one is a stock G27....probably take me a few weeks to max it out, then nixim, and if I'm not were I want to be CSP to my rescue hahahhahaa.

All up it will cost me....

$400 G27...AUD.
$40 or so nixim
$330 for CSP{forget whether that includes delivery}

The G27's clamp appears to be the same as my DFGT's, so maybe it'll fit where my DFGT currently slots in.

I hope Logitech either sells their next top end wheel separately, or produces something similar to the CSP's as a wheel and pedal set, cause then you'd have an amazing piece of HW, with Logitech plug and play+compatibility.

 

[Puggy]

Anyway I have played Ferrari Virtual Academy and that is without ABS and TC for the actual Hot Lap mode and the pedals work fine there to be fast.

Maybe there's something wrong with my brake pedal, maybe it's sticking or too sensitive, but from my POV, it's impossible to go fast in FVA, my best was a 58.9 or so, and the brakes were a nightmare.

I also find that if I push too hard, I can feel the rear wanting to snap, but there's no time to correct it, once you've pressed to hard, you can't modulate your way out of trouble....anyway, that's been my experience, I don't know if I'm heavy footed or not, but watching the various ISR video reviews on nixim mods, arc, perfect pedal etc, it seems obvious that pedals are a major factor in lap times, also no-one would ever buy or endorse CST pedals if they were just about "feel".

Anyway, the focus is always on brakes, brake mods, load cells for the brake on the CSP, so it seems that braking is the key to ensuring fast lap times.

 

[Puggy]

DFGT is not a bad wheel especially as you pointed out with a few aids on (Iracing has none).

Forgot to say that most of the GTR evo servers run in pro mode, so you can't do anything other than run manual or auto box........but in SP you can do what u want.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

I have a g27 and I'm 100% happy with my purchase. I am doing a few mods to it from (video below)


https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=123896

video #2 and #3 I'm doing (already did inverted pedals)

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

All up it will cost me....

$400 G27...AUD.
$40 or so nixim
$330 for CSP{forget whether that includes delivery}

.

another option for G27 is load cell mod. http://www.apelectrix.com/index.html
I using this mod with my g27 pedals.
P.S the nixim mod use to be just a hard piece of rubber which I used until my load cell arrived. The nixim mod upgrade now includes springs that increase the mod cost. you can make your own nixim mod.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Maybe there's something wrong with my brake pedal, maybe it's sticking or too sensitive, but from my POV, it's impossible to go fast in FVA, my best was a 58.9 or so, and the brakes were a nightmare.

I also find that if I push too hard, I can feel the rear wanting to snap, but there's no time to correct it, once you've pressed to hard, you can't modulate your way out of trouble....anyway, that's been my experience, I don't know if I'm heavy footed or not, but watching the various ISR video reviews on nixim mods, arc, perfect pedal etc, it seems obvious that pedals are a major factor in lap times, also no-one would ever buy or endorse CST pedals if they were just about "feel".

Anyway, the focus is always on brakes, brake mods, load cells for the brake on the CSP, so it seems that braking is the key to ensuring fast lap times.

I think the better brake travel allows for more precision to be more fast and consistent. However I'm not the fastest driver and I don't blame it as I know what it can do in the right hands.

I think my best was 58 something too but I can't get consistency to beat Massa times. I think I have beaten him on each sector but I can't do a lap together that is maybe due to the consistency of feel from the braking but going by telemetry, his throttle and braking inputs are very similar to mine. You can go without locking even with the DFGT pedals as I found out through Massa's telemetry on how to use the brakes. Just brake sharply then modulate out.

Let me know when you get say the G27 and if it improves lap times significantly. Maybe you will improve by a second at best but any more I don't know but depends on if you are heavy footed and in that case you can maybe gain more time.

 

[Biobunny]

I one time in GT5P loaded a ghost replay and in the straights I could never keep up with the guy. (He's number one in the leader board).

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I one time in GT5P loaded a ghost replay and in the straights I could never keep up with the guy. (He's number one in the leader board).

That might just be due to better cornering and exit speed.

 

[Puggy]

another option for G27 is load cell mod. http://www.apelectrix.com/index.html
I using this mod with my g27 pedals.
P.S the nixim mod use to be just a hard piece of rubber which I used until my load cell arrived. The nixim mod upgrade now includes springs that increase the mod cost. you can make your own nixim mod.

I was just thinking that the nixim mod isn't expensive, so I might give that a try, and "if" I still feel the pedals are in anyway letting me down, I'm going to move to the top of the home user order, ie, CSP.

 

[Puggy]

I think my best was 58 something too but I can't get consistency

I think that's one of the main reasons right there, for example I was comparing my times to another guys, and he was only 5-7th's faster than me, but his average lap times blew me away, so he'd kill me in a 10 lap race.

Let me know when you get say the G27 and if it improves lap times significantly. Maybe you will improve by a second at best

A second isn't good enough for me, especially as many G series owners are 2.5-3.5seconds faster in sims, but I never thought it was the pedals as I could see that my laps weren't clean, but with more practice I was able to do a good job of staying on the racing line and even regularly running wide on the rumble strips, but still couldn't match them.

Let's just say I want to go at least a 1min 34flat at Imola 06 in the F3000{Race07}, whereas now I'm something like a 1min37.5 or so, and that's hard to repeat.

I can't expect to beat Iracing crazies with dedicated sim rigs+CST's, but I don't like iracing, certainly not with a DFGT

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think that's one of the main reasons right there, for example I was comparing my times to another guys, and he was only 5-7th's faster than me, but his average lap times blew me away, so he'd kill me in a 10 lap race.



A second isn't good enough for me, especially as many G series owners are 2.5-3.5seconds faster in sims, but I never thought it was the pedals as I could see that my laps weren't clean, but with more practice I was able to do a good job of staying on the racing line and even regularly running wide on the rumble strips, but still couldn't match them.

Let's just say I want to go at least a 1min 34flat at Imola 06 in the F3000{Race07}, whereas now I'm something like a 1min37.5 or so, and that's hard to repeat.

I can't expect to beat Iracing crazies with dedicated sim rigs+CST's, but I don't like iracing, certainly not with a DFGT

I think most of the time is due to the really fast drivers having insane levels of skill (Aliens) in the positioning of the car, turning perfectly, getting perfect traction and braking on the limit. That is what I found out looking at onboards / following ghosts so I think it will be hard for you gain more than a second, I think personally I would only gain a few tenths but main thing would be just better consistency.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I was just thinking that the nixim mod isn't expensive, so I might give that a try, and "if" I still feel the pedals are in anyway letting me down, I'm going to move to the top of the home user order, ie, CSP.

The nixim mod is a huge improvement than just the spring that comes with the pedals. The biggest difference between this mod and a load cell is you have a lot less throw with a load cell. In my case I'm not too sure if spending $80 for the load cell was worth it since I can use my CSP with the g27 on the PC. The nixim mod was good enough for Gt5.