Downforce not affecting PP?

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claudiorz

claudiorz

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gon7710
I haven't seen a thread regarding this but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed it, and it's bothering me a little. The adjustable downforce on race cars and on some road ones does not affect the PP of the car, it stays the same whether you increase or reduce the downforce.
This must be a bug right? No way they could have screwed up that badly on purpose...
 
I always thought the wing setup affecting PP level is pretty dumb. I could see it being an effect comparing one with and without wing. But otherwise its just a setup variable. The fact that tire choice don't come in PP effect is much more of an issue...
 
Downforce creates drag and on tracks like Monza it harms your lap time, I think it's the right decision. It can improve or harm lap time just like a ride height or camber adjustment.
 
It's about time it doesn't affect the pp. I mean downforce is a trade off. If you turned it up it adds more pp and cornered better, yet it was slower in a straight line and slower accelerating. The inverse happened with the downforce off and it didn't raise the pp. I found it was a huge loophole when tuning cars for online and I'm glad they fixed it.
 
claudiorz
I haven't seen a thread regarding this but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed it, and it's bothering me a little. The adjustable downforce on race cars and on some road ones does not affect the PP of the car, it stays the same whether you increase or reduce the downforce.
This must be a bug right? No way they could have screwed up that badly on purpose...
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Won't get my copy 'til later today or evening. Have you got to a place in the game where you've added a wing to a car yet, & does that make a difference to pp?

I agree with you and disagree with those who say downforce shouldn't affect pp mostly because with GT5 you could add a wing but if you needed to reduce the pp for a race you could turn the downforce all the way down & reduce the pp back to wingless.

Of course, I expect there'll be a lot of patches shortly.

Cheers,

Rick
 
Yes redrick, aftermarket wings don't raise pp either.

@RacingManiac tyre selection can be restricted so it's not that big of a deal that it don't affect PP.

@Peasantslayer an excesive downforce may be harmful in certain tracks, sure, but in most tracks and situations more downforce makes you faster (between reasonable limits obviously, no point in going with 900 points of rear downforce on a SLS GT3 limited to 450 hp, for example). The loss of top speed is overly compensated by the improved braking and cornering.
BTW talking about Monza, there you have Vettel winning every year with the lowest top speed of the grid.

I liked downforce being reflected in PP because it forced you to compromise. Now I don't see a reason why not run max downforce in all the LMP, GT3, JGTC and the rest of race cars in nearly every track except the obvious ones (La Sarthe, SSR7 & X , the ovals) and maybe Bathurst.
 
Hopefully the levels of downforce are different compared to GT5. No more Viper GTS-R being able to have more wing than GT500's? If not then PD dropped the ball again.
 
@claudiorz vettel does normally run more downforce than others at monza but nowhere near hungary levels for example, he runs marginally more than everyone else which gives him a slightly quicker lap time but still low downforce. To run slightly more you need to deliver pole and a good start or your race is ruined in traffic. In F1 the best setup rarely involves full downforce so how do you measure downforce using PP?
 
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Amac500
It's about time it doesn't affect the pp. I mean downforce is a trade off. If you turned it up it adds more pp and cornered better, yet it was slower in a straight line and slower accelerating. The inverse happened with the downforce off and it didn't raise the pp. I found it was a huge loophole when tuning cars for online and I'm glad they fixed it.
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Not true. Accurate aero design can prevent most of trade off. You can add downforce without adding significant drag on straight.
 
Wait, adding the wing initialy to enable the choice of df level doesnt affect pp? Hmm. Not sure if I like that. And I never could understand for the life of me why tire choice doesn't affect pp.. its arguably the most effective upgrade you can have on a car.
Put slicks on in forza and you will sometimes raise a car 2 classes up lol.
Stepping back into gt5 once I got my ps3, I was really perplexed by this.
 
Dinofly
Not true. Accurate aero design can prevent most of trade off. You can add downforce without adding significant drag on straight.
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Ugh, well I know or a fact in GT5 when downforce was added I did better in the corner and worse in a straight line, and when it was taken away I wasn't as good in the corner but the straight line improved. There are ways of adding downforce without creating drag but we don't have control over how our downforce is added in Gran Turismo, so that's irrelevant.
 
aj thecaveman
Wait, adding the wing initialy to enable the choice of df level doesnt affect pp? Hmm. Not sure if I like that. And I never could understand for the life of me why tire choice doesn't affect pp.. its arguably the most effective upgrade you can have on a car.
Put slicks on in forza and you will sometimes raise a car 2 classes up lol.
Stepping back into gt5 once I got my ps3, I was really perplexed by this.
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In GT5 stuff like Seasonal Events limits the tires you can use separately. The annoying thing is that in the regular A and B events when they tell you the competition you're likely to be up against they tell you the pp and the hp but you have no idea what tires they're using.

As I recall, in GT4 tires were part of pp. I remember choosing racing softs over other available upgrades in most races and easily beating cars that had higher pp but apparently were using it for other things.
 
Its definetly strange seeing a maxed out huyura with more pp than a maxed r18. Honestly, I liked seeing the pp get higher as I added more down force, but I clearly see why PD did what they did.
 
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Really like it like this. In real life racing, you don't get extra HP if you lower your downforce.
 
When I started adding wing in GT5 I expected it to reduce top speed because of the drag increase, but it really didn't. If they corrected the physics then I'm ok with no change in PP settings. This is why everybody ran max wings on the FGT and Ferrari F10 on the long straights in GT5.
 
Ligerbots_Mr_E
When I started adding wing in GT5 I expected it to reduce top speed because of the drag increase, but it really didn't. If they corrected the physics then I'm ok with no change in PP settings. This is why everybody ran max wings on the FGT and Ferrari F10 on the long straights in GT5.
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I have found on most sims, that it definitely helps immensely in lap times to have down force on most all cars besides the lower class street cars. Even on speed tracks like la Sarthe, just running minimum dowforce you will lose a little of the top speed on the straights, but it more than makes up for it on the fast or mid speed corners, and also on the slow speed corners and chichanes where your front and rear df will help you slow the car much more quickly and help with car balance to reduce under/oversteer.

On a mid speed track with off camber corners and undulation, it absolutely makes a world of difference to have front and rear df to help balance your car through the turns. Not to mention the extra grip and braking it will give you.

I Dont think it should cost pp to adjust your front or rear wing. But just to apply them initially. Just the balance adjustment that gives you on both ends of the car is worth seconds around a track, let alone the road holding grip.

The way you adjust the lbs of df on each wing is up to you, per the track. But those wings give you that ability you wouldn't otherwise have. So I def think it should cost pp to attach the wings initially.

/rant lol. My bad.
 
Downside to this is some street cars come with downforce like the R8's, 458 etc. In GT5 you got the added grip at the cost of HP, meaning you had to make a tradeoff as a tuner/driver. If these same cars take no PP hit for the downforce they basically get all the HP of any other car + the added bonus of more grip from the downforce and no way for hosts to do anything about it. On top of Nitrous not being in PP it basically means that down the road when online becomes busier and more cars are bought, you will need both Nitrous and downforce to win, meaning to some degree there will be a convergence towards a small number of cars in PP restricted Open Lobbies. 400+ Premiums and an even smaller number of cars will be really competitive. Another blow to generic, PP based racing in the Open Lobby system. 👎👎
 
Johnnypenso
Downside to this is some street cars come with downforce like the R8's, 458 etc. In GT5 you got the added grip at the cost of HP, meaning you had to make a tradeoff as a tuner/driver. If these same cars take no PP hit for the downforce they basically get all the HP of any other car + the added bonus of more grip from the downforce and no way for hosts to do anything about it. On top of Nitrous not being in PP it basically means that down the road when online becomes busier and more cars are bought, you will need both Nitrous and downforce to win, meaning to some degree there will be a convergence towards a small number of cars in PP restricted Open Lobbies. 400+ Premiums and an even smaller number of cars will be really competitive. Another blow to generic, PP based racing in the Open Lobby system. 👎👎
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wow, how does nitrous not affect PP? thats bloody insane lol. well i hope we can create private rooms with people we know, so we can just run on gentlemen rules, and dont have to deal with all the inconsistencies regarding PP.. esp some no upgrade rooms on comfort or street tires :)
 
aj thecaveman
wow, how does nitrous not affect PP? thats bloody insane lol. well i hope we can create private rooms with people we know, so we can just run on gentlemen rules, and dont have to deal with all the inconsistencies regarding PP.. esp some no upgrade rooms on comfort or street tires :)
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You can ban Nitro in online rooms....
 
Goruk
You can ban Nitro in online rooms....
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Yes, I just went online and found that out for myself. You can disable nitrous now..I was told you couldn't:lol:
 
Peasantslayer
@claudiorz vettel does normally run more downforce than others at monza but nowhere near hungary levels for example, he runs marginally more than everyone else which gives him a slightly quicker lap time but still low downforce. To run slightly more you need to deliver pole and a good start or your race is ruined in traffic. In F1 the best setup rarely involves full downforce so how do you measure downforce using PP?
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As in GT5. You could set the wing downforce all the way to off and add no pp. If you used it you obviously thought you were adding an advantage, so you got charged extra pp. Not a perfect system for judging exactly how much pp for how much downforce for each car and track combination, but better, IMHO than no pp at all for what the driver obviously is adding for his advantage.

BTW, as you know from your obvious familiarity with F1, there are DRS zones on F1 straights where, if you are within 1 second of the car in front of you, you can open the rear wing and cut the downforce to pass. For almost the whole 2nd half of the season Vettel would get way out front for the whole race from lap one, so never used, or needed to use DRS and nobody got close enough to use it on him. So for all those races Vettel would have, perforce, used more downforce. And he still usually got in the fastest lap.

Hope the new engines make next year's season more interesting. For those interested, they (practices, qualifying, and the race) were mostly on NBCSN this year which you may need to buy an approx. $10 extra "Sports Package" to get, depending on your area.

Regards,

Rick
 
I don't know how true this is since the "flat floors" certainly added Performance Points to my Toyota 86 "Racing." Go try it yourself. Note your vehicle's PP, add a flat floor modification, then go back to your garage and check the PP again. Personally, I do everything in my power to avoid adding rear wings to my cars unless it's absolutely necessary, since most of them look pretty ugly.
 
vespid82
I don't know how true this is since the "flat floors" certainly added Performance Points to my Toyota 86 "Racing." Go try it yourself. Note your vehicle's PP, add a flat floor modification, then go back to your garage and check the PP again. Personally, I do everything in my power to avoid adding rear wings to my cars unless it's absolutely necessary, since most of them look pretty ugly.
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Sorry, can't quite see what statement your fact is making untrue. Flat floors improve aero & so should add pp. Where's the argument?

-Rick
 
redrick
Sorry, can't quite see what statement your fact is making untrue. Flat floors improve aero & so should add pp. Where's the argument?

-Rick
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He's saying that flat floors add PP, so why shouldn't wings?
 
Ittybitty Stigy
He's saying that flat floors add PP, so why shouldn't wings?
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Thanks. Then I mostly agree, except the difference is that flat floors can't be removed so must always add the same pp, where as wings can be turned all the way down to the point where they add no downforce, so even after installing the wing you should be able to adjust whether you want the downforce and added pp hit, or no added downforce and no added pp.

But be aware that's how GT5 is and I think vespid82 was writing about GT6. The confusion is probably my fault as when I was answering Peasantslayer I started with the words "As in GT5", meaning how GT6 ought to be, not necessarily how it is.

Rick
 

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