Drifting in LFS too easy?

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sk8er913

sk8er913

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Sk8er913
I installed LFS with my G27. Got in the XRGT, put on rally tires for reduced grip. And was instantly able to drift properly.

However, whenever I play different sims, I cant drift at all. In GT6 I'm barely passable as drifting.

In rfactor I have used like 4 different drift mods and I still can't make it around 2 corners in a row.

Is it just me, or is LFS way easier than everything else?
 
Drifting isn't actually very difficult; any decent driver with a RWD car on an open track can kick the tail around, as automotive journalists frequently demonstrate. Of course, there's a distinction between drifting for fun and the professional stuff you see in D1GP and so on. I haven't played GT6, but I know GT5's physics had some archaic issues left to be ironed out and I would call the drifting itself "passable" rather than anything accurate. rFactor is built upon a physics engine that wasn't exactly intended to simulate controlling a car at high slip angles, and mods are a big question mark.

To answer your question, the Forza games are much easier for drifting than LFS is.

If drifting is something you enjoy, I suggest to keep at it with LFS, enjoy having a good time with it, and push yourself to improve. The tire model isn't flawless (one of the reasons the game is in limbo is because Scawen has sought to improve it with a whole new tire model in development), but LFS remains an exceptional simulator to this day, and in my experience is pretty close to the real deal. It should feel natural! :)
 
Wolfe
Drifting isn't actually very difficult; any decent driver with a RWD car on an open track can kick the tail around, as automotive journalists frequently demonstrate. Of course, there's a distinction between drifting for fun and the professional stuff you see in D1GP and so on. I haven't played GT6, but I know GT5's physics had some archaic issues left to be ironed out and I would call the drifting itself "passable" rather than anything accurate. rFactor is built upon a physics engine that wasn't exactly intended to simulate controlling a car at high slip angles, and mods are a big question mark.

To answer your question, the Forza games are much easier for drifting than LFS is.

If drifting is something you enjoy, I suggest to keep at it with LFS, enjoy having a good time with it, and push yourself to improve. The tire model isn't flawless (one of the reasons the game is in limbo is because Scawen has sought to improve it with a whole new tire model in development), but LFS remains an exceptional simulator to this day, and in my experience is pretty close to the real deal. It should feel natural! :)
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I mastered drifting in 1 day on LFS. Why is everything else so hard? What's your opinion on AC I've heard good things about it, but I won't be able to afford the PC until after GT Academy.
 
The hardest part about drifting is figuring out how to accurately simulate it, apparently.

I have not played AC, PCARS, or any of the newer PC sims, because my laptop is not powerful enough.
 
Wolfe
The hardest part about drifting is figuring out how to accurately simulate it, apparently.

I have not played AC, PCARS, or any of the newer PC sims, because my laptop is not powerful enough.
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Hopefully well get a good drift simulator on PS4. :) I tested some real "drifting" yesterday, my tires regain grip a little faster than LFS does, but LFS is very close. rfactor is terrible, I don't know why people praise that game. It might be good for NASCAR or something. But overall it feels terrible.
 
sk8er913
Hopefully well get a good drift simulator on PS4. :) I tested some real "drifting" yesterday, my tires regain grip a little faster than LFS does, but LFS is very close. rfactor is terrible, I don't know why people praise that game. It might be good for NASCAR or something. But overall it feels terrible.
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Once I tried rFactor2 demo now I call it crapFactor2 :lol:
Welcome to LFS 👍
I bought the full game three weeks ago and for me LFS still has the best physics,Project CARS physics is overrated.
 
sk8er913
I agree. :) but I'm a noob at real life so.
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There is no substitute to practice, the more you do it the better you get. Other thing is picking up bad habits from doing the same things wrong over and over, for which the only way to avoid it is playing with a bunch of experienced people that can help you grow faster and better.
 
If you ever wanted to try D1GP game, there were 2 released on PS2 back in 2005 an 2006 ( D1GP official game ) The cars and drivers as well as tracks are all official as used in real D1GP, from Odaiba to Autopolis to Sekia Hills. It has clutch feature as you need to use it ( clutch kick ), the drift mechanic is very intuitive yet hard to master, especially if doing tsuiso, D1 career championship and survival battles. There are also training mode by Keiichi Tsuchiya and extre mode with challenges like stunt parking and jumps.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
If you ever wanted to try D1GP game, there were 2 released on PS2 back in 2005 an 2006 ( D1GP official game ) The cars and drivers as well as tracks are all official as used in real D1GP, from Odaiba to Autopolis to Sekia Hills. It has clutch feature as you need to use it ( clutch kick ), the drift mechanic is very intuitive yet hard to master, especially if doing tsuiso, D1 career championship and survival battles. There are also training mode by Keiichi Tsuchiya and extre mode with challenges like stunt parking and jumps.
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PS2 era sims aren't that great though. Their resources are very limited compared to modern games.
 
sk8er913
PS2 era sims aren't that great though. Their resources are very limited compared to modern games.
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Resources ? I still have both games, and I find them challenging compared say to GT6 drifting as all the cars are already set for drifting in D1GP game. I have to use real life drifting techniques to do well, from feint, handbrake and clutch kick ( to correct mid drift angle ), brake drift, shift lock, to simple power oversteer ( with the Ridox RSR Supra D1GP :lol: 700+PS ). Drifting the AE86 D1GP cars also requires different approach just like in real life with low powered lightweight cars ( below 200PS and 1000kg ), the AE86 is more nimble, responsive and less prone to spin out.

The graphics do look bad compared to PS3 gen, but the gameplay for drifting is still the best IMO, especially when doing tandem battle. I think the game also compatible with Logitech wheels ( the FFB more likely to be suck though ) and it requires clutch use. The physics is not as good as PC sims, but I think it has the best balance, it's certainly not arcade, as every mistake is costly - going wide, spin out, crashing into other cars, roll over, lose momentum, just like what often happens in real D1GP :P

My favorite for battle are Ebisu and Autopolis, high speed to low speed drifting side by side :D
 
I think drifting is way too easy due to the basic arcade like handling of LFS. It feels like an old arcade Ridge Racer game trying to make it as a sim game. Maybe passable in 2003 but in 2017, I think it would take a lot of development effort to catch up with competition. Maybe they would be better off aiming for the mobile market, it doesn't seem to require much processing power to run especially given high physics tick rate, I'm not surprised by how basic it handles due to this, might make an easy drifting game controllable with accelerometer.

The following setup looks perfect for this kind of game:



I always wondered what people see in it. Remember seeing some videos of it a long long time ago with a few people saying it's good for drifting but to me it looked to have a terrible / basic physics engine. I gave the demo a go and still thought the same. I'm guessing that as it is labelled as a sim where you have to do the driving, people believe in it especially as it seems to make anyone have superhuman car control instantly.

What I mean by instantly is below. The videos of my first time with either of the following controllers on this game with same car with no driving aids. I'm terrrible at drifting with G27 on any other game, with something like T300 it becomes easier. I had no practice beforehand so no time to get used to handling of car, steering and feedback with either input devices. I found straight away that the car is so stable at extreme slip angles, it feels like you can get away with anything requiring very little skill no matter how badly out of shape I tried to get the car. In real life, such driving would likely result in serious accidents, damage and dangerous spins. In LFS feel like safe as houses in terms of car control.

Xbox 360 Controller:



G27:



It's possible to be so lethargic with steering input and still remain in full control, no wonder even with a G27 which has weak motors, it is so easy to drift with given how bad the physics are in this game. I think it's easy to see in following video, how little skill it takes to drift cars in LFS.



Will be interesting to see once they update the tyre physics, if they manage to make it more realistic, wonder if that will turn people off the game if people can't drift so easily. I might finally buy the game if it is made more realistic, that is main reason why I haven't bought it yet.
 
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I can't take seriously the notion that a game that simulates the mass and center of gravity of a car as a totally free-moving body in all axes supported upon its wheels by dynamic suspension geometry; subject to aerodynamic forces not limited to canned downforce or drafting effects, but including wind speed and gusts; with a tire model that doesn't act upon the car like it's a sliding brick but is actually three-dimensional based on literal contact and the forces involved between the wheels and the road...as comparable to any arcade-style racing game, much less the rigid simplicity of Ridge Racer.

It's entirely disingenuous to how 99% of other driving/racing games compare. The question, "Is Live for Speed the most realistic simulator today?" is debatable. Whether LFS is a simulator in the first place is not, at least among anyone with earnest intentions.
 
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Wolfe
I can't take seriously the notion that a game that simulates the mass and center of gravity of a car as a totally free-moving body in all axes supported upon its wheels by dynamic suspension geometry; subject to aerodynamic forces not limited to canned downforce or drafting effects, but including wind speed and gusts; with a tire model that doesn't act upon the car like it's a sliding brick but is actually three-dimensional based on literal contact and the forces involved between the wheels and the road...as comparable to any arcade-style racing game, much less the rigid simplicity of Ridge Racer.

It's entirely disingenuous to how 99% of other driving/racing games compare. The question, "Is Live for Speed the most realistic simulator today?" is debatable. Whether LFS is a simulator in the first place is not, at least among anyone with earnest intentions.
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Well, looking at how the developer is honest that the tyre forces are made up to produce reasonable results and not based on principles of physics and they use unrealistic setups to make cars handle well and tyres have extra grip, I see it is an arcade sim and it shows in the way it drives. They might make a sizeable jump once they finally update their tyre physics to something more realistic but I do wonder if that will alienate current fan base.

Looking up the making of Ridge Racer, it could be argued the original vision for that is quite similar to what seems the LFS community is about - drifting.

Fumihiro Tanaka (Ridge Racer Designer)
The theme of the game was to put you in control of a high-power sports car, enabling you to hold the steering wheel to drive through curves and bends while skidding from side to side. Therefore, it was necessary that the steering wheel conveyed the response of the tyres in a way that players could actually feel.

We had H-type gears, a clutch pedal, a large seat, and so on, all prepared so that the feeling of driving a real sports car could be conveyed properly.
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FFB wheel option on arcade version and for PS1 make controller that supports analogue inputs for steering, throttle and brake (Might be first game on console to achieve it?), it is still somewhat a simulator even if realism is not the aim but fun. At the moment LFS, does not seem much about realism (However that does appear about to change soon) and does probably a better job at having a physics model that fulfils the Ridge Racer vision. I don't think Ridge Racer you can do as good drifts as LFS such as following.

 
Saidur_Ali
I don't think Ridge Racer you can do as good drifts as LFS such as following.
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Then you must not have even played a Ridge Racer game to compare it to, if you don't know how on-rails and trivial the drifting is in that series.

Apples and oranges. Either you don't know any better or you have a chip on your shoulder about LFS. The Forza Horizon games are perhaps the definition of an "arcade sim" if that's the term you want to use, and Horizon is not even close to as realistic as LFS. The fact that Scawen is rebuilding the tire model is not evidence that other simulators are better. Tire modelling has always been and still is a black art, and for years LFS was miles ahead of anything else.

Today, only the likes of PCARS2 and Assetto Corsa can compare. If that's not a comparison you would make -- instead turning to Ridge Racer of all things -- this isn't worth my time.
 
It's too bad, because it's probably too late for me. PCARS2 delivers close enough to the same experience while offering so much more. If they add quite a bit more to S3, I might buy it out of respect, and to dust off my G25 and come back to some FFB wheel driving again.
 
Saidur_Ali
Well, looking at how the developer is honest that the tyre forces are made up to produce reasonable results and not based on principles of physics and they use unrealistic setups to make cars handle well and tyres have extra grip
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The majority of sims and games use a system that generates lateral and longitudinal forces based on a set of curves such as load, camber, slipangle, et cetera, because rubber conforms to pavement in a way that drastically increases the surface area over the apparent contact patch, breaking the "law" of "normal friction", as well as acting as an adhesive when hot. The difference in LFS from other sims is, LFS attempts to replace some of those curves with a real-time model of a tyre. It doesn't work as well as traditional models in racing. In drifting, however, traditional models regularly fail in combined high slipangle/slipratio scenarios, where LFS does not, in part to the simplified approach. There are no great drifting simulations yet, LFS included. It might be the best.. aside from the tire heat issues.
 

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