Driver Rating down after clean race??

[BIGBEN]

So it appears that losses detrack your DR. (Sorry, If this is widey known, can't find a thread on it.)

I was at DR:C with SR:B.

I poled at 4th, on the first lap I was overtaking 2nd and cut in on a turn to avoid collision. Two tires went over the chicane into the grass, and coming out of the turn I was rewarded a +7 second penalty. Again, it's the first lap (of 4) and the field is still pretty tight. 7 seconds would've moved me from 2nd to last, if not close to it. I ran through the 2nd lap at full effort, just to see if any of that penalty would drop, and it didn't.

Realizing that, I figured I was pretty much out of it already, so... I followed the advice and instructions of those DA sportsmanship videos and the onscreen flashing red prompt to "SLOW DOWN". I figured I'd just 'slow down', wait till the penalty dissipated then pick the race back up with the intention of just finishing clean, which I did.

After waiting the penalty out, I'd fallen back to 9th, completed the third lap, and after a few close calls with the always rowdy bunch in the back, I decided to let them pass as well. I finished last. My SR had went blue but remained at 'B', while my DR fell a whole half bar back into D.

So again, sorry if this is widely known, if so can someone link me to a detailed thread about the DR/SR system?

 

[Foxis]

I am fairly sure this is even explained in the game?

SR : Sportsmanship/Safety Rating = How cleanly and safely you perform on track
DR: Driver Rating = How fast you are, how well you place

So your experience is as it should be: Slow but clean race: Increase in SR, and decrease in DR.

 

[GordonS]

Two choises:
#1 To push through the race and get the penalty in the end.
#2 To slow down to get rid of the penalty and possibly drop below the midfield and get into worse situations.

#1 for me please.

 

[BIGBEN]

I am fairly sure this is even explained in the game?

SR : Sportsmanship/Safety Rating = How cleanly and safely you perform on track
DR: Driver Rating = How fast you are, how well you place

So your experience is as it should be: Slow but clean race: Increase in SR, and decrease in DR.

Well if it was, the whole 'S rating effects D rating' factoid through me off, I figured I was protecting my DR buy racing clean. Now that I know that's not the case, it's hammer down all the way for me.

 

[JacksHerer]

In my experience, finish in your qualifying position or better and it banks DR, if you have the odd race where you finish lower than you qualified it will only eat up some of that banked credit.
If you've been banking minus credits by qualifying well but then giving up places to avoid potential conflict, you will need a lot of good races to eat up those minus credits.
There is also probably some calculation based on the competition - ie number of lower level DR drivers beating you, compared to you beating higher level DR drivers.

 

[Foxis]

Well if it was, the whole 'S rating effects D rating' factoid through me off, I figured I was protecting my DR buy racing clean. Now that I know that's not the case, it's hammer down all the way for me.

SR does effect DR I believe, but only the other way around. Ie. if you have a poor SR that limits your DR. So if you are SR C, you cannot be higher than DR C.
But if you are SR S and drive slowly, you can still have a DR D.

In other words: If it's hammer down all the way for you and you are fast, but slam into people, your SR will go down and limit your DR anyway. Only way to get a high DR is to drive both quickly and cleanly.
(As far as I have come to understand)

 

[BIGBEN]

In my experience, finish in your qualifying position or better and it banks DR, if you have the odd race where you finish lower than you qualified it will only eat up some of that banked credit.
If you've been banking minus credits by qualifying well but then giving up places to avoid potential conflict, you will need a lot of good races to eat up those minus credits.
There is also probably some calculation based on the competition - ie number of lower level DR drivers beating you, compared to you beating higher level DR drivers.

I think you nailed it, I was beginning to assume as much myself.

 

[pedrocor]

If You got a 7 sec penalty, it wasn't a clean race.

Maybe it was an unfair one, as the system is broken in some degree, but by all means, software wise, it wasn't a clean race.
On the whole race, its possible you score enough "plus" sectors to get a positive SR for the race.

The DR has to do with the final classification and how fast you are, not cleanliness.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

See a fast driver you dont like or think is ranked too high? Just punt him off the track and both his SR AND DR will go down. That's why I quit all this nonsense and went to lobbies only.

 

[meck_rb7]

Yesterday i was DR:B and SR:S... qualified 10th and finished 7th... had a bleu S at the end.. so a clean race and improved from my qualifying spot... and still i went from DR:B to DR:C....... how?

 

[praiano63]

If you want to keep your SR as it is , don t go to Tokyo Express way with the Clio. It s just like going to the butcher. It s fun in some way, but really dramatic for the SR .
Dragon trail GR4 also is full of dive bomber and angry people.
PD need to do something about penalties, if not this part of the game will be dead soon. Back to the private rooms.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

PD need to do something about penalties, if not this part of the game will be dead soon. Back to the private rooms.

What do you mean?

 

[Adrenaline]

Yesterday i was DR:B and SR:S... qualified 10th and finished 7th... had a bleu S at the end.. so a clean race and improved from my qualifying spot... and still i went from DR:B to DR:C....... how?

You got beat by drivers a DR:B shouldn't have.
I disagree with the qualifying theory. Can you show us the DR of all 6 cars that finished ahead of you?

Qualifying 10th and finishing 7th means nothing, if the only 3 cars you passed were DR.D and the 6 cars that beat you were DR.C. This is an ELO system in my opinion.

A player's Elo rating is represented by a number which increases or decreases depending on the outcome of games between rated players. After every game, the winning player takes points from the losing one. The difference between the ratings of the winner and loser determines the total number of points gained or lost after a game. In a series of games between a high-rated player and a low-rated player, the high-rated player is expected to score more wins. If the high-rated player wins, then only a few rating points will be taken from the low-rated player. However, if the lower rated player scores an upset win, many rating points will be transferred. The lower rated player will also gain a few points from the higher rated player in the event of a draw. This means that this rating system is self-correcting. A player whose rating is too low should, in the long run, do better than the rating system predicts, and thus gain rating points until the rating reflects their true playing strength.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I think people focus and worry about their DR rating for the wrong reasons. The purpose of the DR rating is to group you by speed and skill set to be matched with other drivers of similar skills for online racing so that you will be placed within races that will be close and competitive for the most part at your current level.

Sure it would be nice to be in the highest level and to have the ability to competitively race at that level. But in the real world what difference does it make if you are racing in the C class or the A class if the competition within the races is the same as you and you are having closely contested battles for position resulting in a great racing experience.

Sr rating on the other hand all drivers can and should strive to be at the highest level with their race craft as that driving style and ability promotes clean contact free racing.

Honestly being placed in a DR rating that is actually above your current level and skills can actually cause a decrease in your SR levels as you will be constantly trying to drive over your head to compete and maintain a race pace with drivers who have currently higher skills than you possess.

Let your DR settle where it will, race at the best pace you can maintain basically mistake free and have fun. Higher DR rankings may be in the future as you improve.

 

[JulesDennis]

I think people focus and worry about their DR rating for the wrong reasons. The purpose of the DR rating is to group you by speed and skill set to be matched with other drivers of similar skills for online racing so that you will be placed within races that will be close and competitive for the most part at your current level.

Sure it would be nice to be in the highest level and to have the ability to competitively race at that level. But in the real world what difference does it make if you are racing in the C class or the A class if the competition within the races is the same as you and you are having closely contested battles for position resulting in a great racing experience.

Sr rating on the other hand all drivers can and should strive to be at the highest level with their race craft as that driving style and ability promotes clean contact free racing.

Honestly being placed in a DR rating that is actually above your current level and skills can actually cause a decrease in your SR levels as you will be constantly trying to drive over your head to compete and maintain a race pace with drivers who have currently higher skills than you possess.

Let your DR settle where it will, race at the best pace you can maintain basically mistake free and have fun. Higher DR rankings may be in the future as you improve.

You my friend got it spot on.

 

[meck_rb7]

You got beat by drivers a DR:B shouldn't have.
I disagree with the qualifying theory. Can you show us the DR of all 6 cars that finished ahead of you?

Qualifying 10th and finishing 7th means nothing, if the only 3 cars you passed were DR.D and the 6 cars that beat you were DR.C. This is an ELO system in my opinion.

A player's Elo rating is represented by a number which increases or decreases depending on the outcome of games between rated players. After every game, the winning player takes points from the losing one. The difference between the ratings of the winner and loser determines the total number of points gained or lost after a game. In a series of games between a high-rated player and a low-rated player, the high-rated player is expected to score more wins. If the high-rated player wins, then only a few rating points will be taken from the low-rated player. However, if the lower rated player scores an upset win, many rating points will be transferred. The lower rated player will also gain a few points from the higher rated player in the event of a draw. This means that this rating system is self-correcting. A player whose rating is too low should, in the long run, do better than the rating system predicts, and thus gain rating points until the rating reflects their true playing strength.

You got beat by drivers a DR:B shouldn't have.
I disagree with the qualifying theory. Can you show us the DR of all 6 cars that finished ahead of you?

Qualifying 10th and finishing 7th means nothing, if the only 3 cars you passed were DR.D and the 6 cars that beat you were DR.C. This is an ELO system in my opinion.

A player's Elo rating is represented by a number which increases or decreases depending on the outcome of games between rated players. After every game, the winning player takes points from the losing one. The difference between the ratings of the winner and loser determines the total number of points gained or lost after a game. In a series of games between a high-rated player and a low-rated player, the high-rated player is expected to score more wins. If the high-rated player wins, then only a few rating points will be taken from the low-rated player. However, if the lower rated player scores an upset win, many rating points will be transferred. The lower rated player will also gain a few points from the higher rated player in the event of a draw. This means that this rating system is self-correcting. A player whose rating is too low should, in the long run, do better than the rating system predicts, and thus gain rating points until the rating reflects their true playing strength.

That clears a lot for me! Thank you for the explanation! And no i cant show you the DR of the drivers in front of me, but i'll take note of that!

 

[praiano63]

What do you mean?

I mean that if the rules of penalties stay the way it is, very unfair and stupid , people will move to online rooms formed by littles groups of friends that know well each others and because of this will not do anything stupid because everybody will have a good level of respect to stay clean and fair.
Rooms like this are open to new player but he will have to show he share the same spirit or he will be kicked forever.
This always have been like this before and it work very well.
I don t understand why is it so difficult to install a fair system with fair rules.
-Who come from behind and make contact must be always guilty.
-In a turn who is inside must control his car to not ram the exterior car
All the contact in this order of priority have to be penalized, with some room for light contact that don t disturb the driving line both car.
More this contact is strong more the time penalty is strong and imediate, like it was in precedent versions of GT.
Going of track is already a penalty, you can loose a lot of time already doing this. No need to add time or low the SR, even more for the driver that was bumped out of the road.
Anyway , there is a lot of simple things to do and i am sure thay have the tools to do this quickly. If not , like i have said before, Sport mode will die.

 

[slowflux]

I think people focus and worry about their DR rating for the wrong reasons. The purpose of the DR rating is to group you by speed and skill set to be matched with other drivers of similar skills for online racing so that you will be placed within races that will be close and competitive for the most part at your current level.

Sure it would be nice to be in the highest level and to have the ability to competitively race at that level. But in the real world what difference does it make if you are racing in the C class or the A class if the competition within the races is the same as you and you are having closely contested battles for position resulting in a great racing experience.

Sr rating on the other hand all drivers can and should strive to be at the highest level with their race craft as that driving style and ability promotes clean contact free racing.

Honestly being placed in a DR rating that is actually above your current level and skills can actually cause a decrease in your SR levels as you will be constantly trying to drive over your head to compete and maintain a race pace with drivers who have currently higher skills than you possess.

Let your DR settle where it will, race at the best pace you can maintain basically mistake free and have fun. Higher DR rankings may be in the future as you improve.

Very well said ... 100% agree.

 

[nocdevon]

Your DR depends on three things:
How you qualify and where you are placed after qualifications
Where you finish the race
And how many places you improve/lose when compared to where you started.

So if you ran a clean race but lost 3 positions, and qualified 10th... you will lose DR.

 

[JulesDennis]

-Who come from behind and make contact must be always guilty.

Wrong.Not always the car coming from behind is guilty.

-In a turn who is inside must control his car to not ram the exterior car

The same can be said for the exterior car.Both of them have the responsibility to give each other enought room and keep their line.

All the contact in this order of priority have to be penalized, with some room for light contact that don t disturb the driving line both car.
More this contact is strong more the time penalty is strong and imediate, like it was in precedent versions of GT.

Light contact could cause major damage in terms of positions or even actual car damage too.So its not black/white:more contact=bigger penalty.

Going of track is already a penalty, you can loose a lot of time already doing this. No need to add time or low the SR, even more for the driver that was bumped out of the road.

Cutting track is also going off track and in no way a penalty by default.
As you see the subject is much more complicated than some may think.No title can (has) create(d) a perfect system.But for sure PD should do a better job and give us some major improvments.

 

[Notilloc27]

One thing you can do when you get a penalty is to slowly knock it down over the race. Slowing down for the whole penalty at once will kill you but doing it in strategic pieces during the race will help you hold as many positions as possible. I had a 10-second penalty last night because of a crazy turn 1 incident on the first lap and I managed to only lose one position and finish strong.

 

[JulesDennis]

One thing you can do when you get a penalty is to slowly knock it down over the race. Slowing down for the whole penalty at once will kill you but doing it in strategic pieces during the race will help you hold as many positions as possible. I had a 10-second penalty last night because of a crazy turn 1 incident on the first lap and I managed to only lose one position and finish strong.

IMO what you describe here (used by almost everyone in the game,me included) is another part of the problems in penalty system.
The way you can pretty much "cancel" the penalty by just racing.It should not work that way.

 

[Notilloc27]

It's still a penalty, you have to slow down at some point or you take the whole chunk at once. A 3+ second penalty is REALLY hard to get rid of and keep positions when you're with people on your same level or better.

 

[JulesDennis]

It's still a penalty, you have to slow down at some point or you take the whole chunk at once. A 3+ second penalty is REALLY hard to get rid of and keep positions when you're with people on your same level or better.

It depends mate.Would you believe me if I told you that you can "cancel" a 10 sec pen without losing anything if you are racing in the big oval track (cannot recall the name) -if you have 6-7 laps to do-?
Well you can and you wont lose anything.

EDIT:1st and 3rd (last) corner will do that for you,without losing any pace at all.

 

[praiano63]

Wrong.Not always the car coming from behind is guilty.

The same can be said for the exterior car.Both of them have the responsibility to give each other enought room and keep their line.

Light contact could cause major damage in terms of positions or even actual car damage too.So its not black/white:more contact=bigger penalty.

Cutting track is also going off track and in no way a penalty by default.
As you see the subject is much more complicated than some may think.No title can (has) create(d) a perfect system.But for sure PD should do a better job and give us some major improvments.

In the braking zone yes The car from behind must be guilty in my opinion
In case of cutting the track, of course it must be penalized.
Cars in GTS are vey well planted and i think you can tolerate a very light contact. Just like in the real racing, from F1 to clio cup.....

 

[Notilloc27]

Wow, I don't do ovals anymore because the couple times I've done them they were a demolition derby and I don't like either of the ovals I've been on. The game has some flaws but I feel as soon as you get to A or S SR it gets much better and any contact isn't intentional and a lot of the time it's unavoidable. My incident last night was me in 3rd place and 1st place practically stopped at the apex for some reason and 2nd place went wide trying to avoid it and spun and I had nowhere to go so I got a 10-second penalty out of it. It's technically my fault but if I had to slow down all at once for my 10-second penalty I would have been pretty upset in a Nations Cup Race.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

One thing you can do when you get a penalty is to slowly knock it down over the race. Slowing down for the whole penalty at once will kill you but doing it in strategic pieces during the race will help you hold as many positions as possible. I had a 10-second penalty last night because of a crazy turn 1 incident on the first lap and I managed to only lose one position and finish strong.

And this is one practice currently allowed that should be stopped immediately and all assessed penalties should be applied at races end.

You want to stop the dive bombing in the first corner on the first lap then the penalties from doing such need to strongly over ride any gains that could possibly be made by the "illegal penalty inducing" incident.

Your words "I had a 10-second penalty last night because of a crazy turn 1 incident on the first lap and I managed to only lose one position and finish strong" makes my point exactly. A person dive bombing on the first corner on some tracks could bulldoze their way through and gain 4 positions and any penalty received could be eliminated with no real punishment over the course of the race by scrubbing off the time through the slower corners.

Honestly this is just BS! At the end of the race who was punished the guy that was dive bombed and pushed off track losing maybe 8-10 positions easily before he could re enter the track and probably was assessed a penalty as well even though he was an innocent victim or the one that gained the positions by dive bombing and drove away clear and gained 4 or 5 positions because of his dirty driving and has time to discard the penalty?

Until the penalty punishes a player two fold more than what the incident does that induced the penalty offers in gains the rules will be ignored and the system gamed by a dirty player looking to steal the advantage any way possible as to that type of player ethics do not exist.

All penalties should be applied race end period and no disposing of penalties within the race on track at all with possibly the exception allowing on longer races a stop and go drive through penalty in the pits with no other service allowed to remove a Maximum of 10 seconds in penalty time and limited to one and one only penalty pit stop per race maximum.

 

[JulesDennis]

In the braking zone yes The car from behind must be guilty in my opinion

It may be you opinion mate (and I respect that) but even in breaking zones its not always the car behind that is guilty.Example.:
Car in front is on the right.Car behind goes left.At breaking zone -while breaking- car in front goes from right to left in order to defend or block.Its clear that the car in front is the guilty one.

In case of cutting the track, of course it must be penalized.

So we agree that not always the off track is penalty by default.

Cars in GTS are vey well planted and i think you can tolerate a very light contact. Just like in the real racing, from F1 to clio cup.....

Tolerate in what way?I can light bump you and make you spin/lose control and 10 places in the first corner.Would you be ok with something like that?Because in irl racing that is a penalty.

 

[praiano63]

It may be you opinion mate (and I respect that) but even in breaking zones its not always the car behind that is guilty.Example.:
Car in front is on the right.Car behind goes left.At breaking zone -while breaking- car in front goes from right to left in order to defend or block.Its clear that the car in front is the guilty one.


So we agree that not always the off track is penalty by default.


Tolerate in what way?I can light bump you and make you spin/lose control and 10 places in the first corner.Would you be ok with something like that?Because in irl racing that is a penalty.

I am not a specialist but you have to defend your line before the other driver back you is engaged. If he is, you will have to deal with him on your side.
You will not make any car fly away with a light touch in GTS, just like you can do in AC for example , even much more than real life from what i can see in real racing video at least. AC is too sensitive and GT not enough.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Well i got no help or answer but i got this problem 1 or 2 times too. I got the clean race 50% Bonus and then im showing a red SR. even lost my SR tho i had no contact. My only suggestion is this: When i do my money races i tune a car down to N300 and race a N1000 race. Doing this to get a money Bonus. In the end i also receive a clean race bonus with also increases my credit, xp and so on. I also get a clean race, when i touch cars very slightly, but not if i bump into them hard. So maybe theres a little buffer wich makes you lose SR but not th eclean race Bonus.

You answered your own question

Clean race bonus with red ratings will be more common now that people think rubbing is fine during the race. Only the penalties and SR Down warnings have been relaxed, SR deductions are still applied. PD just chose to hide the judgement system during the race and present you with the result after. Any contact costs safety rating, since you're not safe when you make contact. You can still race 'clean', to avoid all contact is a step above clean. (Should have it's own contact free star with accumulative 50% bonus imo)