Drivetrains and Tyre Wear

[DakotaXIII]

Are certain drivetrain cars likely to suffer more than others when tyre wear is on?

I was racing the Gr.4 last night (1.24 update) with the Audit TT (FF) in race 3 at the Nurburgring GP. The first 2/3 laps with fresh tyres I can easily hold my own, never really coming under pressure from behind (02:07s usually), but as soon as the tyres start to wear I've noticed that 4WD cars easily catch up and get past me. These guys are definitely on the same pit strategy; one 4WD got past me at the start of the final lap and built up a 2 second gap before the finish, seemingly not suffering from lower grip. It's a bit disheartening having started in pole and finishing 4th.

Is it a fair assumption that FF will suffer with tyre wear more than other drivetrains as the fronts do the driving and the steering?

Are there any rules of thumb when it comes to car choice in races with tyre wear vs. races without?

 

[Slapped]

Well when you think about it then yes. A FF has the front wheels doing all the work - power delivery and steering, so the front tyres are going to go off pretty rapidly compared to other drivetrains where the workload is more evenly split.

 

[dabz343]

Is it a fair assumption that FF will suffer with tyre wear more than other drivetrains as the fronts do the driving and the steering?

👍

But the variability in tire wear is what PD needs to get right for FR/MR/RR + 4WD...not to mention consequences from cooking your tires.

 

[DakotaXIII]

👍

But the variability in tire wear is what PD needs to get right for FR/MR/RR + 4WD...not to mention consequences from cooking your tires.

Agreed. I mean, knowing this, why would I ever pick a FF car for race 3 ever again? Just purposefully giving yourself a disadvantage.

 

[dabz343]

Agreed. I mean, knowing this, why would I ever pick a FF car for race 3 ever again? Just purposefully giving yourself a disadvantage.

Well it depends, some guys are really good at looking after their tires...so on the surface yes, FFs have a disadvantage but you have to also consider fuel savings (FFs tend to be less thirsty). And there is the track to consider...In the end, it may not be so simple.

 

[Tidgney]

Yup any FWD car is atrocious, even more so with the new tyre model. I tend to find it goes in this order in terms of tyre wear (Best on tyres to worse);

FR, MR, 4WD, FF

They have tried to compensate FF with power but then your in a catch as you'll technically under steer more and have to put even less power down as you exit a corner . Issue is there's so many complexities to it that there's going to be some extreme Metas in those classes constantly. The minute you get to a fast track, say you do group 4 at La Sarthe the FF's are going to dominate by a mile. Handling track? FF's lose by a mile.

 

[RZQSPEED]

Front Wheel Drive cars, while they got the power for speed focused tracks, will eat their front tires much easier due to those poor front wheels doing both the power and steering work. Getting them to have scary amounts of power will get their front tires to wear much quicker than having less ponies. On speed tracks such as Monza, Le Mans, and to some extent Tokyo East Loop, they will be the choice to go up against the Gr.4 Speed King that is the Veyron Gr.4, which is All Wheel Drive, which means less severe worn tire effects, and has scary fuel saving abilities. On handling focused tracks though, such as Tokyo Central Loop, Dragon Trail Gardens, Interlagos, and Nürburgring GP, you are out of luck.

And, as I said it on the FIA discussion thread, Gr.4 is basically a combination of Super Taikyu's ST1-ST5 classes, FIA GT4, and some other Touring Car categories to create a uniform Touring Car class, so the balancing PD has to do is already out of whack from the structuring stages.

Now imagine if PD decided to add Super Touring cars (90's 2 litre Touring Cars with limited aero modifications) into Gr.4, will this inclusion going to be even more troublesome for balancing?

 

[golfer07840]

I don't know, I used to the Audi TT Cup last night and while my front tires did wear faster than the rears, I never once ever felt like I lost any speed or handling, even out of the pit.

Then again, not sure why I even bother with Audi's in these BoP races. PD decreases their power (Yeah yeah, I know the last update they updated the TT Cup power to an extra 1%, whoopee) but it's basically PD saying "Sure, you can use the Audi, but we are taking out the Quattro turbo."

Rant over.. carry on

 

[vvise]

shifting the brake balance to the rear can help a little bit.

 

[Tidgney]

shifting the brake balance to the rear can help a little bit.

Good point, mines constantly on 5 in the PUG.

 

[twitcher]

FF cars are typically harder on their tires than other drive trains. That said, driving style and tuning can help compensate for this.

As others mentioned, the FF cars are powerful and fast, so you need to use that to your advantage, while looking after the front tires. This mostly means you want to square up your corner exits as much as possible, you want to have the car as straight as you can when you get on be power.

The downside of not being able to tune is that we can’t set these FF cars up like they should be, ie, with the rear wheels there just to hold the exhaust off the off the ground. To make an FF car fast and easier on its tires, the back end needs to be very very lose, and the front needs to be really pointy. The default settings are really bad for these cars, so they can’t really be driven the way FF cars are in real life. It’s unfortunate, because it’s a really cool driving style. Watch BTCC cars at Thruxton, it’s amazing

 

[DakotaXIII]

I don't know, I used to the Audi TT Cup last night and while my front tires did wear faster than the rears, I never once ever felt like I lost any speed or handling, even out of the pit.

Then again, not sure why I even bother with Audi's in these BoP races. PD decreases their power (Yeah yeah, I know the last update they updated the TT Cup power to an extra 1%, whoopee) but it's basically PD saying "Sure, you can use the Audi, but we are taking out the Quattro turbo."

Rant over.. carry on

Really struggling to imagine how you feel you lost no time on 4 lap old tyres in the Audi TT. I'm not saying it's a world of different between worn and fresh tyres, but saying you don't feel you lost any time at all makes me think you weren't too consistent to begin with?

What's your quali time for race 3 this week in the TT?

 

[golfer07840]

Really struggling to imagine how you feel you lost no time on 4 lap old tyres in the Audi TT. I'm not saying it's a world of different between worn and fresh tyres, but saying you don't feel you lost any time at all makes me think you weren't too consistent to begin with?

What's your quali time for race 3 this week in the TT?

I don't have the time in front of me (I'm at work). Wasn't the best lap in the world. I started 9th. Got punted off the track at turn 1 (Shocking right?) Got passed by and was dead last for 2 laps. Eventually caught up and finished a few spots above last. So, no, I didn't feel like I lost any time since I actually caught people.

 

[DakotaXIII]

I don't have the time in front of me (I'm at work). Wasn't the best lap in the world. I started 9th. Got punted off the track at turn 1 (Shocking right?) Got passed by and was dead last for 2 laps. Eventually caught up and finished a few spots above last. So, no, I didn't feel like I lost any time since I actually caught people.

Ah sorry. I meant lap time deltas. I lose up to 2 seconds per lap on worn tyres compared to fresh in the TT.

Catching up to the back markers over race distance is a bit different.