Driving ethics: kerbs, legal or no?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blank_Redge
  • 67 comments
  • 6,838 views

Are kerbs fair game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 165 95.4%

  • No

    Votes: 8 4.6%
  • Total voters
    173
Blank_Redge

Blank_Redge

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743
United States
Los Angeles area, CA
Just curious as to how the fine members of GTPlanet view kerbs.

Is it that part of the track that exists as "whoops... cut that corner too sharp / carried too much speed into that turn," or is it something you deliberately aim for / factor into your driving line?
 
In my opinion, two wheels on a kerb is fine, anything up to half of the car is fair game for me personally (coming from the Touring Car racing style background). But anymore than half of the car is starting to push it and anymore than 4 wheels on the kerb is exceeding track limits. That goes for both sides of the track, either on the inside of the corner or on the run out of the corner.

To me, strategically cutting corners is what you need to do to be quick, but obviously not taking liberties in the process. Like in this photo with the R8. That is so close to the limit for cutting the corner but to me, it has still got 2 wheels in the white lines so that is acceptable. Just.

w6unoh.jpg
 
In my opinion, I believe it depends on how much of the kerb you use. If only two wheels go over, then it's fair game. If you drive fully onto the kerbs (for example on Brands Hatch), then no, it is not fair game.
 
Kerbs are fine. I strictly adhere to the standard WRS OLR rules covering this subject.

Standard Clean OLR Rules:
  • At Least 2 Tires must be in contact with track at all times.
    • In situations where contact with the track is not possible because tires are airborne (above the ground), then the run is only legal if at least two tires in-line would have made contact with the track if the car were not airborne.
    • If track contact cannot be 100% determined, then consider it dirty.
  • Rumble/ripple strips are part of the track.
  • No contact with walls or objects, visible or invisible
 
Bit old school
I prefer all four wheels inside the white lines.
But drivers will cheat... sorry push the limits of the rules... so corners get cut, drivers run a little bit off track, and then run a little bit more the next lap ... then rules change to accommodate the driving standard to prevent one team protesting a result...

The main thing is that every driver on the grid understands what the accepted limits are.

I like Monaco or Pau as you can take the corners how you like - Armco, Hotel walls, Iron benches tend to impede your race.

In the past it was a safety issue, You didn't want to run off track and get a puncture, or drag a few pounds of gravel on the track to have a driver kick it up into the following drivers. (Helmut Marko & Clermont-Ferrand.)

But circuits have become much safer off track - And a virtual game like GT6 there is zero risk to running off track.

That said, it does feel nice to get your inside wheel to kiss the kerb. Like slogging a cricket ball for a six (Getting a slam dunk, Belting a drive down the fairway, sinking a long pot in Snooker, Insert other sporting sweet spot moment.)
 
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Two wheels on the track two on the curb is totally fine IMO. I rarely cross over the curb but there are many places that I will take a line that results in tires on the curb.

I also have no problem avoiding the curbs so long as the rule is consistent. One thing that drove me mad in Forza was how some tracks/places you could totally straddle the curb without penalty and other places just getting 1/2 a tire on the curb voided the lap and the only way to learn where you could hit the curbs was to pay close attention and hit them all.
 
It is acceptable as long as two tires are still on the track. If all four tires go over the curb then it is illegal. I personally use the rumble strips to guide me through the corners, start outside near the run-off strip, cut low and clip the inside strip, then get two wheels on the run-off on the exit of the corner of needed.
 
One of the things that always bugged me about GT is that it was too easy to roll over the curbs as if there was no difference between the adhesion on many curbs and the track surface itself, which just isn't the case in real life. I wish the curbs were more realistic in upsetting the balance of the car (requiring more precise steering inputs to maintain stability) and more realistic in levels of grip (requiring more care and precision with the throttle). If the curbs were as punishing as they are in real life, with sausage curbs breaking your suspension or throwing you airborne for example, we wouldn't have to worry so much about it, it would be self policing.
 
Johnnypenso
One of the things that always bugged me about GT is that it was too easy to roll over the curbs as if there was no difference between the adhesion on many curbs and the track surface itself, which just isn't the case in real life. I wish the curbs were more realistic in upsetting the balance of the car (requiring more precise steering inputs to maintain stability) and more realistic in levels of grip (requiring more care and precision with the throttle). If the curbs were as punishing as they are in real life, with sausage curbs breaking your suspension or throwing you airborne for example, we wouldn't have to worry so much about it, it would be self policing.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you but I find that setting the track conditions, or whatever its called, to "Real" kinda helps make running on the curbs a bit more realistic. It does reduce the grip a little. Its not perfect, but its a start. I'm sure you know this already though. 👍
 
I have a firm belief.

As long as two wheels remain INSIDE the white line at all times then the curbs are fine. If the outside tires touch the curb as well then it's a distinct advantage.

Pretty much all touring car series have that rule in their rulebooks.

I always drive to that. Just my 2c :D
 
ColouredBadger
In my opinion, two wheels on a kerb is fine, anything up to half of the car is fair game for me personally (coming from the Touring Car racing style background). But anymore than half of the car is starting to push it and anymore than 4 wheels on the kerb is exceeding track limits. That goes for both sides of the track, either on the inside of the corner or on the run out of the corner.

To me, strategically cutting corners is what you need to do to be quick, but obviously not taking liberties in the process. Like in this photo with the R8. That is so close to the limit for cutting the corner but to me, it has still got 2 wheels in the white lines so that is acceptable. Just.

w6unoh.jpg
Click to expand...

This would be clean by a mile by WRS OLR standards. Matter of fact, that R8 could be shifted over to the right a lot more, as long as both of its left side tires remained on the red and white kerbing, and it would still be clean. I have provided a link below with some examples in the OP showing what would be clean and dirty according to the WRS OLR standards. I know not everybody goes by these standards and that's perfectly fine and I totally respect that, I'm just giving some examples with the link to show the regulations by which I go by.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gtp_wrs-week-41-double-inline-six.318937/
 
Here is the Australian V8 Supercars ruling:

B7.11 Penalties for Kerb Infringements

7.11.1 During any practice session:
a) First adjudged breach will result in a warning.
b) Second adjudged breach will result in the loss of the fastest lap time recorded
by the Car during the session.
c) Third and subsequent adjudged breaches will result in the loss of the next
fastest time recorded by the Car and so on.

7.11.2 During any qualifying session:
a) First adjudged breach will result in the loss of the fastest lap time recorded by
the Car during that session.
b) Second and subsequent adjudged breaches will result in the loss of the next
fastest time recorded by the Car and so on.

7.11.3 During a race
a) First adjudged breach will result in a warning.
b) Second and subsequent adjudged breaches will result in a PLP. (Pit Lane Penalty Drive through)

It would be great if this was an option for online rooms (as opposed to the current time penalty)
 
I like to hook the inside wheels over the curb a bit like the gutter run in initial d to flip the car a bit and rotate it into the corner better.
 
Track edges are defined by the white lines, not by the kerbs. If you go outside of the white lines with all four wheels then you have left the track. The white lines are also part of the track, so you're not off until you're completely outside of the white line.

So yes, you can drive on the kerbs or the grass or the gravel or the concrete or whatever - as long as some part of the car remains on the track.

The Audi in that picture is on the track, because at least one wheel is inside or on the white line.

Edit: I voted no in the poll, because although it's okay to ride on the kerbs (just like it's okay to ride on any other surface) they don't define the track edges.
 
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Kerbs are a danger itself if the car you run in can lose traction like an MR car. There's also the grass besides the kerb that also cause loss of traction on any car. It's necessary that you avoid it because the purpose of the kerb is to inform the driver that they're almost at the track edge, but if you can control your car when cutting the kerb slightly to avoid penalisation, it doesn't count as an illegal move to me.
 
Blank_Redge
Just curious as to how the fine members of GTPlanet view kerbs.

Is it that part of the track that exists as "whoops... cut that corner too sharp / carried too much speed into that turn," or is it something you deliberately aim for / factor into your driving line?
Click to expand...

The general rule in autosport and simracing is this:

- you can not go outside racing track limits with more than two wheels. Usually track limits are defined by white line.
- kerbs are part of racing track (thus they extend track limit in that place)
 
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nickg07
Howis it within the white line?
Click to expand...

How is it relevant to a discussion about kerbs? The thread title and OP are about whether kerbs are legal, not general track boundaries.

On topic, same as Cargo for me, WRS rules are the absolute limit of how far I'll push.
 
The track is between the white lines. It is not the kerb.

Two wheels on the track is okay as long as those two wheels are actually on the track which is between the two white lines.
 
ColouredBadger
To me, strategically cutting corners is what you need to do to be quick, but obviously not taking liberties in the process. Like in this photo with the R8. That is so close to the limit for cutting the corner but to me, it has still got 2 wheels in the white lines so that is acceptable. Just.

w6unoh.jpg
Click to expand...
Agreed the R8 is so close to the limit, technically, I wouldn't consider it cutting the corner but it sure is really REALLY close to it, I think the green part behind the kerb makes it all "ok" here, if it was grass I would consider that the R8 is cutting the corner.

That being said, I don't aim for the higher part of the kerb (which is close to the green area/gass) because to me that's basically cutting the corner if your inside wheels are over the kerb (like the R8 is doing). I think if I was following the R8, I would say that the corner was cut. If all four wheels are on the kerb (therefore over the white line) I consider that the corner has been cut.

Concerning the exits, I consider that only two wheels should be over the white line, if half of the car is consistently over the white lines then I consider that they're exceeding track limits/cheating.
 

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