Driving lessons required...

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Heathenpride
OK, so I have come to the point where I am going to lose my mind guys. In short I have been trying to drive sans driving aids, completely off & I cannot drive to save my life right now & I need some pointers :(

If they are on I can't win races as they slow me down if I have them off I lose by even more, what am I doing wrong!? I try gentle deceleration I try light breaking then not so light breaking I am trying all sorts with all cars & I am getting nowhere fast, on the road to nowhere in my 2009 failsmobile...

Pointers please?
 
Uhm ABS off? If yes, you probably have some issues because you didn't change the brake bias in the settings. The wheels, especially on the rear, lock-up too fast this way, so use settings like 3:1 or 4:2. If you have issues with the driving overall, search for some videos on YouTube and look at the HUD, where people accelerate and brake.

Practice, practice, practice.
 
Do you also play with ABS off? That's the only assist I still leave on in hard races because the braking without ABS is really hard for me with a DS3. You can make it easier by lowering your brake settings.

Don't know how else to help you. Just practicing really. It will come in time.
 
Oh and the most basic tip for taking corners: Outside, inside, outside. ;)
motorsports_079a_001.gif
 
G.T.Ace
Oh and the most basic tip for taking corners: Outside, inside, outside. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes the basics like that I got for the most part, the ABS are off though. Is that why a lot of folks have them on one? I'll also mess with breaks, that sounds like it could help.

Thanks guys, I'll let you know how I go...
 
Maybe not the best tip but it helped a couple of my friends:

Take a couple of cars to the Fuji track (no gravel beds) and start abusing the hell out of the cars. Might sound funny but after a while you start to get a feel for what is going wrong. Getting understeer, oversteer, lockups...

The most important thing is understanding what is going on. From the moment that you understand what happens/is going to happen when the car oversteers etc. you will also understand the things you can do to prevent it while you are driving.
Questions you will find answers for:
How to turn this understeering car?
How can i best accelerate with this hugely oversteering car?
Can i brake a bit later than this?
What happens when i lift off in this high speed corner?
Can i drive, take a call on my mobile and drink at the same time?
(last one might be a tad bit too much ;-) )

So while you are abusing your cars in testsessions like that and meanwhile understanding what is happening to the car and why, one more thing will happen and that is you will learn how the game communicates these very situations to you, the gamer.

Taking all these things into account, you will -eventually- get to grips with driving without aids.

Just to clarify this "tip": I told a couple of my friends to do this (was for rFactor but theory is the same). Now I started driving sims back in the WorldCircuit/GP2 days without aids so I consider myself "experienced". One of my friends - who never raced any sims - now drives without aids and races my socks off on a regular bases, not that I am a gifted/brilliant/talented driver or anything but still... his standard of driving has been completely changed from NeedForSpeed-arcade racer to sim racer.

I'll leave you with one thing: http://www.drivingfast.net/
Definitely a good read.

Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress.
 
Not going well... how realistic is it for my car to spin out at 60kmh whilst going gently around a corner... gotta love sports tires lol
 
Apparently the comfort soft and mediums are closest to real life high performance street tires when comparing lap times. :)

Just have to be patient. While it's important to be able to go over the limit to be able to drive on the limit i would still say that to start it's better start slow and build up speed gradually. Smooth inputs are the most important factor i think. Are you using a wheel or standard controller?
 
Sohvakettu
Apparently the comfort soft and mediums are closest to real life high performance street tires when comparing lap times. :)

Just have to be patient. While it's important to be able to go over the limit to be able to drive on the limit i would still say that to start it's better start slow and build up speed gradually. Smooth inputs are the most important factor i think. Are you using a wheel or standard controller?
Click to expand...

Thanks bro. Yes the non racing tires are more realistic but damn I find it hard to control the car... I get in my car which has terrible tires & I'm fine but a pair of brand new SH going <100kmh on GT5 & I spin on every corner nearly, I'm struggling to see the realism BUT I am aware that practice will bring skill, it's just so damn frustrating :(

I use DFGT wheel & in Aspec I can drive no aids ok, it's online where I struggle big time.
 
go with racing tires, they provide more grip. If you'd rather use sports or comfort tires, I'd still suggest trying racing tires for now, at least until you get the hang of it.
 
Practice Heathen, it's all practice.

I'm not the greatest racer, as you've seen, but I've spent years playing GT, it must amount to 1000s of hour in total.

Starting off in a slowish car is my best advice, the MX-5 is a perfect starting point as it's very forgiving and lots of fun. It will also allow you to understand the point where the tyres break traction and how to bring them back in line.

Once you feel confidently fast in a slowish car, add some power upgrades or get a faster car and do lap after lap in it to find it's characteristics and the driving style needed for that particular motor.
 
Heathenpride
I use DFGT wheel & in Aspec I can drive no aids ok, it's online where I struggle big time.
Click to expand...

Some say that the fuel load shifts the cars center of gravity upwards so the handling changes because of that.

While it's possible to drive without the ABS with DFGT (I use DFP myself) it might be better to just turn the other aids off and have the ABS at 1. When you get used to the grip level and the feel without other aids then i would propably turn off the ABS. I myself only turn off the ABS on cars that don't have it in real life.

One thing to notice is that ABS is actually the only aid that will make one faster unlike other aids so i'm never as fast without ABS as i'm with it. Only exception might be the race cars as with the grip of racing tires the ABS doesn't really play that important of a role. :)
 
Hi Heathenpride, you say your using the dfgt? I had the same problem when i made the swap from ds3, have you been using the wheel for long? If you dont already, try getting used to left foot braking, this helps no end with stopping the car from spinning around, provided your in the right gear etc. Just a very gentle touch of the brake is all thats needed in some cases. I dove into the deep end with learning to use the wheel, took myself out onto the Nurburgring in my Bentley Speed 8, all aids off etc and racing hard tyres, (sports and comforts didnt seem realistic in this car) and spent a good while getting dizzy round pretty much every corner, until after a while it just clicked, and before i knew it i had the thing dancing on the edge of grip round every corner. Excellent throttle control, brake usage and steering control is key to mastering each car. Obviously theres a bit more to it than just throttle, brake and steering usage but once youve mastered these everything else kind of slots into place. But if your driving high powered race cars, if you dont finish the race with a bit of arm ache your not doing it right lol or maybe thats just a testimony to how unfit i actually am haha :) Anyway, hope my little 2 pence worth might help a bit :)
 
Sorry, also the other thing that is critical to using the wheel is your hands, a few friends have had a go on my setup and they tend to naturally try and drive it as you would a car, hands a bit here and there, selecting gears with one hand off the wheel while on full lock etc, this doesnt work. Just like any racing driver youve got to keep both mitts on the wheel, keep them at 9oclock and 3 oclock, in the best position for reaching the paddle shifters (or buttons in the case of the dfgt) and never let go, which is also where the optimum sitting position is critical too, to allow your arms to move enough to rotate a full 180 degrees without letting go. Forgive me i dont mean to sound like i know it all, cos i dont by a long way, but keeping the optimum driving position with hands legs n feet etc really really helps. :)
 
I also use DFGT as well, I've found that trail breaking seems to work best for me when I'm driving in those tires. It helps me to get around a tight apex, and helps my exit speed.
 
I would leave ABS at 1 will be alot easier. Pick a car and a track that aren't to difficult, then drive round it as smoothly as possible by smoothly I mean your steering should be smooth ie no sudden movement keep steering input to a minimum. Same idea with bracking and accel no jumping on the brake at the last min, gently off accel and on the brake. Keep going round until you get consistant then try going faster while maintaining the smoothness. Remember to practice with a car online if thats where your going to be racing it, a car can feel different offline than it would online. And most importantly have FUN :)
 
1. Look up some tunes in the garages and use some of them, to be sure it's not the car it's you. Praiano has a wealth of good online tunes, all done with a wheel. I'd start there.

2. Start with slower cars or detuned cars and RS tires. Gradually work your way up in speed and down in tires. You can't expect to run 600pp cars on CS tires or even SS tires without mastering the higher grip tires first. Everything that happens with SS tires happens with RS tires, just to a lesser degree and with more control.

3. Stick with flat tracks to begin with. The vagaries of grip at the full Nurb, Trial Mountain, Deep Forest and the like, are intensified versions of the effects you see on flatter tracks and not so easy to master for a beginner.

4 Turn ABS on 1 all other aids off. The other aids make the game arcade like, and you can't use them in most online lobbies so there's no point in practicing with them. If you want to later, you can remove ABS, but for now, leave it on. Keep your brake balances lower in the beginning too, like 4/3, 4/4 even 3/2. You rarely use full braking on most cars anyway, and this will help you be more consistent. I broke into the top 200 on the FGT Time Trial with a brake balance of 2/1.

5. Always practice online. Online physics are different, more difficult with less grip. Practicing offline is almost pointless. Use your own lounge or set up an open lobby with 2 players.

6. To learn to drive pick the easiest cars to drive, that is those that are fairly neutral in handling, before you learn the requirements of 4wd, FWD and MR cars. The RX-7's and RX-8's for example are some of the easiest cars to tune and drive, very fast at their PP levels and can be adapted for everything from 400-600 pp on any tire. Starting out in a Lotus Evora or McLaren MP4 is just going to cause you heartache and frustration.
 
Patience with the throttle.
Be GENTLE on the throttle.
Brake in a straight line wherever possible.
Accelerate in a straight line wherever possible.
Leave ABS on 1.
Enjoy. :)
 
Heathenpride
Thanks bro. Yes the non racing tires are more realistic but damn I find it hard to control the car... I get in my car which has terrible tires & I'm fine but a pair of brand new SH going <100kmh on GT5 & I spin on every corner nearly, I'm struggling to see the realism BUT I am aware that practice will bring skill, it's just so damn frustrating :(

I use DFGT wheel & in Aspec I can drive no aids ok, it's online where I struggle big time.
Click to expand...

Do you know at what phase of the corner you're losing control? It sounds like in the braking phase, are you trail braking? If it's mid corner are you taking too much speed into the corner by not scrubbing it off as effectively without ABS. If you are trail braking then make sure you get rid of all the speed you need before turning in. Trail braking is hard..IMO.

I'll mention the age old "slow in, fast out" at the risk of falling into the granny sucking eggs problems!
 
DerNosferatu
Maybe not the best tip but it helped a couple of my friends:

Take a couple of cars to the Fuji track (no gravel beds) and start abusing the hell out of the cars. Might sound funny but after a while you start to get a feel for what is going wrong. Getting understeer, oversteer, lockups...

The most important thing is understanding what is going on. From the moment that you understand what happens/is going to happen when the car oversteers etc. you will also understand the things you can do to prevent it while you are driving.
Questions you will find answers for:
How to turn this understeering car?
How can i best accelerate with this hugely oversteering car?
Can i brake a bit later than this?
What happens when i lift off in this high speed corner?
Can i drive, take a call on my mobile and drink at the same time?
(last one might be a tad bit too much ;-) )

So while you are abusing your cars in testsessions like that and meanwhile understanding what is happening to the car and why, one more thing will happen and that is you will learn how the game communicates these very situations to you, the gamer.

Taking all these things into account, you will -eventually- get to grips with driving without aids.

Just to clarify this "tip": I told a couple of my friends to do this (was for rFactor but theory is the same). Now I started driving sims back in the WorldCircuit/GP2 days without aids so I consider myself "experienced". One of my friends - who never raced any sims - now drives without aids and races my socks off on a regular bases, not that I am a gifted/brilliant/talented driver or anything but still... his standard of driving has been completely changed from NeedForSpeed-arcade racer to sim racer.

I'll leave you with one thing: http://www.drivingfast.net/
Definitely a good read.

Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that mate, I appreciate it and the knowledge will not go to waste - I will be most studious in my search for improvement :)
 
robbo6
Do you know at what phase of the corner you're losing control? It sounds like in the braking phase, are you trail braking? If it's mid corner are you taking too much speed into the corner by not scrubbing it off as effectively without ABS. If you are trail braking then make sure you get rid of all the speed you need before turning in. Trail braking is hard..IMO.

I'll mention the age old "slow in, fast out" at the risk of falling into the granny sucking eggs problems!
Click to expand...

I am losing control in 3 main places:

When breaking coming into the corner
When reaching the apex
When exiting the corner.

I spun out at that first bend at trial mountain doing 60kmh and I had removed my foot off the accelerator in anticipation... It seems overly unrealistic, there is not a car on the planet that would do that!

As you can see this is pretty much during every stage of cornering so I have some work to do... It got so bad last night that I had to drive around half throttle in 3rd gear just to avoid spinning which is just embarrassing... I can't work out how you guys make it look so damn easy :(
 
Johnnypenso
1. Look up some tunes in the garages and use some of them, to be sure it's not the car it's you. Praiano has a wealth of good online tunes, all done with a wheel. I'd start there.

2. Start with slower cars or detuned cars and RS tires. Gradually work your way up in speed and down in tires. You can't expect to run 600pp cars on CS tires or even SS tires without mastering the higher grip tires first. Everything that happens with SS tires happens with RS tires, just to a lesser degree and with more control.

3. Stick with flat tracks to begin with. The vagaries of grip at the full Nurb, Trial Mountain, Deep Forest and the like, are intensified versions of the effects you see on flatter tracks and not so easy to master for a beginner.

4 Turn ABS on 1 all other aids off. The other aids make the game arcade like, and you can't use them in most online lobbies so there's no point in practicing with them. If you want to later, you can remove ABS, but for now, leave it on. Keep your brake balances lower in the beginning too, like 4/3, 4/4 even 3/2. You rarely use full braking on most cars anyway, and this will help you be more consistent. I broke into the top 200 on the FGT Time Trial with a brake balance of 2/1.

5. Always practice online. Online physics are different, more difficult with less grip. Practicing offline is almost pointless. Use your own lounge or set up an open lobby with 2 players.

6. To learn to drive pick the easiest cars to drive, that is those that are fairly neutral in handling, before you learn the requirements of 4wd, FWD and MR cars. The RX-7's and RX-8's for example are some of the easiest cars to tune and drive, very fast at their PP levels and can be adapted for everything from 400-600 pp on any tire. Starting out in a Lotus Evora or McLaren MP4 is just going to cause you heartache and frustration.
Click to expand...

once again thank you for the time you took to write that, I will study and put the knowledge to good use... if it helpas me stay on the road then it is a win.
 
Delta795
I also use DFGT as well, I've found that trail breaking seems to work best for me when I'm driving in those tires. It helps me to get around a tight apex, and helps my exit speed.
Click to expand...

Trail breaking? What is that?
 


Watch this.

Trail braking is when you enter the corner while still braking, you ease off the brake enough to allow the tyres to grip and turn, but you're still on the brakes enough that it will slow you down (ie, you're trailing off the brakes as you turn into the corner). The idea behind trail braking is that it allows you to brake later. However, doing it well can be hard, it can wear your tyres out more and it is not always the fastest way, it depends from on the car, setup and the corner/track.
 
Last edited:
stevti
Hi Heathenpride, you say your using the dfgt? I had the same problem when i made the swap from ds3, have you been using the wheel for long? If you dont already, try getting used to left foot braking, this helps no end with stopping the car from spinning around, provided your in the right gear etc. Just a very gentle touch of the brake is all thats needed in some cases. I dove into the deep end with learning to use the wheel, took myself out onto the Nurburgring in my Bentley Speed 8, all aids off etc and racing hard tyres, (sports and comforts didnt seem realistic in this car) and spent a good while getting dizzy round pretty much every corner, until after a while it just clicked, and before i knew it i had the thing dancing on the edge of grip round every corner. Excellent throttle control, brake usage and steering control is key to mastering each car. Obviously theres a bit more to it than just throttle, brake and steering usage but once youve mastered these everything else kind of slots into place. But if your driving high powered race cars, if you dont finish the race with a bit of arm ache your not doing it right lol or maybe thats just a testimony to how unfit i actually am haha Anyway, hope my little 2 pence worth might help a bit

Sorry, also the other thing that is critical to using the wheel is your hands, a few friends have had a go on my setup and they tend to naturally try and drive it as you would a car, hands a bit here and there, selecting gears with one hand off the wheel while on full lock etc, this doesnt work. Just like any racing driver youve got to keep both mitts on the wheel, keep them at 9oclock and 3 oclock, in the best position for reaching the paddle shifters (or buttons in the case of the dfgt) and never let go, which is also where the optimum sitting position is critical too, to allow your arms to move enough to rotate a full 180 degrees without letting go. Forgive me i dont mean to sound like i know it all, cos i dont by a long way, but keeping the optimum driving position with hands legs n feet etc really really helps. :)
Click to expand...

Hey dude.

Yes I use left foot brake as that is how I drive IRL so that is not a problem.

I am going to go and do that nurburg thing too I reckon, it is a great idea and I have that Bentley so I might just give it a go.

I do drive with both mitts on the wheel too as I have the paddles so I drive the 9 & 3 position in order to retain maximum control, well that is the idea anywhay hahah
 

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