Driving lessons required...

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Bigbazz


Watch this.

Trail braking is when you enter the corner while still braking, you ease off the brake enough to allow the tyres to grip and turn, but you're still on the brakes enough that it will slow you down. The idea behind trail braking is that it allows you to brake later. However, doing it well can be hard, it can wear your tyres out more and it is not always the fastest way, it depends from on the car, setup and the corner/track.
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Wow, that is actually how I break every time... I did not know there was a name for it nor did I know that there were other ways to break other that braking early or late... OK so now some things are falling into perspective here, so what braking techniques are recommended for folks in my position? Just braking early?
 
Heathenpride
Wow, that is actually how I break every time... I did not know there was a name for it nor did I know that there were other ways to break other that braking early or late... OK so now some things are falling into perspective here, so what braking techniques are recommended for folks in my position? Just braking early?
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If for example you brake before you start to turn, you can enter the corner slightly slower but find a better line that allows you to get on the throttle earlier to exit the corner, if you force yourself to do this you will be surprised at the results in the way a car can behave. Don't forget that you can always brake faster in a straight line, trail braking in heavy braking zones can increase the braking distance which can slow you down. Unless you are very skilled at trail braking you might find it is actually slowing you down, especially if you're over using it.

Also take into account that if you brake in a straight line and are off the brakes by time you turn your tyres (so long as you havent touched the throttle and moved the weight balance) will have more grip and thus you would be able to theoretically take the corner at a higher speed. The tyres will always have less grip if they are trying to brake and turn at the same time. But on the other end of the scale, the front tyres will have a lot of weight on them pushing them into the road when the weight is forward (as it would be under braking).

Balancing between different techniques and being aware of the cars weight balance movement is very important when maximising grip and cornering speed.
 
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May I suggest taking a 500-550pp car that's 4WD and do the Grand Valley 300? The car should take care of business, easily. This will give you the time in a lower powered car to learn, but almost being "forced" to complete it. You will get to focus on many different types of corners and speeds, along with fuel loads and tire wear. You can even downgrade tires (RS to RH to SS, etc.) as you go and feel more comfortable. Use some of the tactics other have posted. I suggest 4WD to avoid the rear-wheel spin issue. If you want to do it with a MR or FR, that's fine too. Then take your skills to do the 4hr Nurburgring.

In my opinion, sometimes learning one car on one track can gain confidence and it will translate to other cars (in some small parts) and other tracks. At least this way there is a pay-out when you're doing the longer races.
 
jubbyboi617
May I suggest taking a 500-550pp car that's 4WD and do the Grand Valley 300? The car should take care of business, easily. This will give you the time in a lower powered car to learn, but almost being "forced" to complete it. You will get to focus on many different types of corners and speeds, along with fuel loads and tire wear. You can even downgrade tires (RS to RH to SS, etc.) as you go and feel more comfortable. Use some of the tactics other have posted. I suggest 4WD to avoid the rear-wheel spin issue. If you want to do it with a MR or FR, that's fine too. Then take your skills to do the 4hr Nurburgring.

In my opinion, sometimes learning one car on one track can gain confidence and it will translate to other cars (in some small parts) and other tracks. At least this way there is a pay-out when you're doing the longer races.
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That's an excellent idea thanks mate!

Thanks again everyone for the help! I was a bit worried that I might get flamed once or twice for being an unskilled noob, you guys however have been extremely helpful & when you see me on top of the global leader boards you can say "hey I taught that guy how to drive!" hahaha :)
 
Is there a driving guide anywhere on GTP? Maybe this thread could turn into one? I think there's a lot of people that could benefit!

Thoughts?
 

Watch how Ayrton brakes and how switches between on and off throttle to balance the car and maximize speed.


Watching the greats can teach you a lot.
 
Just curious what car are you trying to drive well?
I had the same problem with Enzo on de la sarthe previously till I learned about very gradual application of brake at Mulsanne and changing brake bias to 5:3. Then I had major problem at the Ring and Mt Aso due to elevation changes throwing car like Miura on SH into spins and oversteer upon landing. There I learnt weight transfer by braking just before the corners and aligning the wheel and cars. Then spec 2.0 came and alas I can barely control MR beast like NSX with some countersteering. Then FGT time trial forces me to do fine corner throttle control and to lower forward downforce to reduce snap oversteer.
Still unable to drive Yellowbird and Stealth Murcielago on even SS without SRF though. I guess that is part of the fun in GT5. Many hours in and still much more to learn and experience.
 
shem
Practice Heathen, it's all practice.

I'm not the greatest racer, as you've seen, but I've spent years playing GT, it must amount to 1000s of hour in total.

Starting off in a slowish car is my best advice, the MX-5 is a perfect starting point as it's very forgiving and lots of fun. It will also allow you to understand the point where the tyres break traction and how to bring them back in line.

Once you feel confidently fast in a slowish car, add some power upgrades or get a faster car and do lap after lap in it to find it's characteristics and the driving style needed for that particular motor.
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Heathen, this is just about the best advice you can get in this game. Starting with the high powered cars exclusively is a road to pure frustration. The premium S2000 is also a very forgiving car and rather fast for it's pp level.
 
Practice is good, but sometimes you can practice bad technique and just drill it in making the problem worse. Being able to take some pointers and advice, watching how other drivers do it and realising where you have gone wrong can help the practice process become much more rewarding, succesful and less frustrating.

For example.


If heathen was to use a track he really likes, in a familiar car, hook up with a fast and skilled driver, then take a look at the replay and telemetry (I don't know how easy this is in GT5 as i've never tried it) of his lap, he could compare and see where he is going wrong, focusing on improving certain areas. The most important thing is for him to know where he is going wrong, and why he is having these issues. Then comes the part of practicing to eliminate them so that driving correctly (and fast, as a result) becomes more natural.


Knowing what cars he is having problems with would be a great help. I can definitely understand his issue if he is driving MR type cars (or any mid/rear mounted, especially Lamborghini 4WD models) as they can be extremely difficult and tempermental to drive. The Murcielago is tank slapper central and I actually would advise most people to use the stability control (not the one that applies the brakes making you slow).

If you insist on driving the tankslapper mid/rear engine mobiles (like the Murcielago LP640) then you want to study Michael Schumachers early driving, he would keep the throttle on slightly while braking, all the way through a corner. When you take your foot off the throttle you cause a balance shift (moving the weight to the front of the car) now in the Murc for example this will cause the rear end to become extremely light and can initiate the tank slapper. To drive this car you need to always be aware of the fact that the biggest problem is weight transfer and the best way to control is with the throttle. You want to be driving the car using both the throttle and the brake at the same time, this will help keep the car stable in heavy braking zones and through high speed corners where you would normally come completely off throttle.

The biggest mistake in hard to drive mid/rear engine cars is to be unsmooth when coming off the throttle, in these cars it is just as (if not more) important as being smooth coming on to the throttle.
 
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Bigbazz

Watch how Ayrton brakes and how switches between on and off throttle to balance the car and maximize speed.


Watching the greats can teach you a lot.
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Not to disrespect but how would this teach him anything...

If you are actually using the H shifter and clutch on a wheel, I can tell you right now you wont be winning many races. Shifting is painfully slower and trying to 1 hand the FFB is bad news
 
So now I am doing the FGT seasonal TT and I placed just under 7000th & I was stoked because i had all assist off.... THEN I noticed that my TCS was on 5 :(

I have switched it off and noticed an immediate difference for the BETTER! My first lap on dodgy new RH's was less than half a second slower that my other time, once these tires wear in I will be smokin it!

Thanks again to everyone for your help :)
 
Heathenpride
So now I am doing the FGT seasonal TT and I placed just under 7000th & I was stoked because i had all assist off.... THEN I noticed that my TCS was on 5 :(

I have switched it off and noticed an immediate difference for the BETTER! My first lap on dodgy new RH's was less than half a second slower that my other time, once these tires wear in I will be smokin it!

Thanks again to everyone for your help :)
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Lots of guys use TC in the FGT in the time trial. There's no tire wear in the TT either, they just warm up after the first lap, so you can spin the crap out of them and it won't have any effect except for them temporarily becoming red.

For me the biggest challenge of the FGT TT was to reduce the snap oversteer under braking and getting the power down early. For the oversteer I turned the brake balance way down to something like 2/1 and 3/1 and I made the front end slightly softer than the rear to help reduce the front end bite. I feathered the throttle using my DFGT to get at least partial power down while still exiting the corner.

You have to get the rear LSD right too. Too high or too low and it'll cause the back end to break loose under downshifting and cornering.

Ended up being much smoother and cracked the top 200.
 
Johnnypenso
Lots of guys use TC in the FGT in the time trial. There's no tire wear in the TT either, they just warm up after the first lap, so you can spin the crap out of them and it won't have any effect except for them temporarily becoming red.

For me the biggest challenge of the FGT TT was to reduce the snap oversteer under braking and getting the power down early. For the oversteer I turned the brake balance way down to something like 2/1 and 3/1 and I made the front end slightly softer than the rear to help reduce the front end bite. I feathered the throttle using my DFGT to get at least partial power down while still exiting the corner.

You have to get the rear LSD right too. Too high or too low and it'll cause the back end to break loose under downshifting and cornering.

Ended up being much smoother and cracked the top 200.
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they do? hard to keep up with the driving aid thing, I guess it's a "horses for courses" approach & I'll get it soon I hope.

Cheers for the tips, my tyres looked like they going down slowly but clearly not which is good. I was only out a few laps at a time otherwise I would have noticed!
 
My setup for F1GT TT

Full DownForce
Trans - set max speed to 149mph then change final drive to 2.612 then change rest of gears to this 1st -7.764 2nd 5.659 3rd 4.079 4th 3.248 5th 2.761 6th 2.374 7th 2.137
LSD 5,5,5
Suspension - 0 -5 , 15.5 16.0, 6 8, 5 7, 4 7, 2.7 2.2 , -0.30 -0.20
Brakes 4/1

107.5 was my time ....was in top 30 but pretty sure I've slipped down the ranking abit. Remember Setup is down to personal prefrence, but It should be a good starting point.

Also No Aids used :)
 
seanneedscar
Not to disrespect but how would this teach him anything...

If you are actually using the H shifter and clutch on a wheel, I can tell you right now you wont be winning many races. Shifting is painfully slower and trying to 1 hand the FFB is bad news
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Firstly, this is nothing about the gearing, it is about how Ayrton is balancing the MR NSX through the corners with his braking and throttle. If you watch carefully you can take a lot from it. In GT5 using a clutch and H-shift is wrongfully slower, but you certaintly can (and I certaintly have) win races and be fast with it. But true, you will always be faster with semi-auto flappy paddles.



I personally think that watching videos of others driving, and looking at telemetry can teach you a lot that just practice would never remedy.
 
Greennarcotics
My setup for F1GT TT

Full DownForce
Trans - set max speed to 149mph then change final drive to 2.612 then change rest of gears to this 1st -7.764 2nd 5.659 3rd 4.079 4th 3.248 5th 2.761 6th 2.374 7th 2.137
LSD 5,5,5
Suspension - 0 -5 , 15.5 16.0, 6 8, 5 7, 4 7, 2.7 2.2 , -0.30 -0.20
Brakes 4/1

107.5 was my time ....was in top 30 but pretty sure I've slipped down the ranking abit. Remember Setup is down to personal prefrence, but It should be a good starting point.

Also No Aids used :)
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Actually you did use ABS=1 ...lol.

Thanks for the setup. Mine was pretty close to that but I'll give yours a spin to see if I can crack 1:08.

I did mention some guys use traction control and some guys also used the steering aid. Not everyone, and not usually the top of the leaderboard, but once you get into the hundred level and beyond you sometimes find a mix of aided and unaided times, other than ABS=1 of course which is pretty much standard. TC will ultimately lead to slower times but don't be afraid to use it to get a good idea of the braking and turning required for smoothness in the particular Time Trial, then take if off when you've got your driving smoothed out and are ready to go for your final attack on the time. Not having to worry as much about the FGT kicking out on accel can help learn the rest of the course instead of always worrying about that part of the drive. But to each his own of course.
 
Without reading all the input here I suggest staying with one car. It doesn't matter which car, just stay with the same one and get to know it and how it handles.

I was online recently and each race (in the same room) I switched cars 4 times. Mostly to try different cars on the ring online. I found that the Corvette C6 06' was the best of the 3 cars I tried. The car was good, but more importantly my driving style is more suited to the Corvette. I have done this same thing with a couple different games that all model the Corvette (race cars at least) and it seemed to be the most forgiving for me.

If you want to improve, start with one car. Once you can do what you want in that car then try another and see how it compares. From there, learn to set up the car to get it to where you want it.

GL!

:)
 
McSoap-90
Have you tried turning where there is corners? ;)
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hahahahahah!!!!!

Heathenpride
I am losing control in 3 main places:

When breaking coming into the corner
When reaching the apex
When exiting the corner.

I spun out at that first bend at trial mountain doing 60kmh and I had removed my foot off the accelerator in anticipation... It seems overly unrealistic, there is not a car on the planet that would do that!

As you can see this is pretty much during every stage of cornering so I have some work to do... It got so bad last night that I had to drive around half throttle in 3rd gear just to avoid spinning which is just embarrassing... I can't work out how you guys make it look so damn easy :(
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Bigbazz

Watch how Ayrton brakes and how switches between on and off throttle to balance the car and maximize speed.


Watching the greats can teach you a lot.
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BWX
Pretend that if you crash, you'll die. Complete the licence tests.
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Yes! Yes! Yes! ^^

Weight transfer and balance....not letting off throttle abruptly, not jamming brakes on, not jerking wheel left/right/full lock.
 
Im going to throw my two cents in as well. This whole thread has mountains of great info. But what about his setup of the car? I had trouble when first started in the GT series long ago but gladly those day are long over. Im by no means the best but Im good enough to keep up with majority online. If i may suggest, you should look into your car setup. simply installing new parts on a car does not necessarily mean its gonna help the car go faster you need to adjust them. Just buying the full suspension and LSD and having them properly setup will make you faster. I went through alot of the tuners in the tuning forum and i really like Motor City Tunes. He has a load in info and great tunes for a number in vehicles. He has quick tunes which arent based on a specific car but a specific car layout like FF, FR, MR, RR, 4WD and so on. Seriously give him a try and his quick tunes. you can find him in the tuning forum under tuning Garages. His tunes have really upped my performance in GT5.
 
e10rice
Im going to throw my two cents in as well. This whole thread has mountains of great info. But what about his setup of the car? I had trouble when first started in the GT series long ago but gladly those day are long over. Im by no means the best but Im good enough to keep up with majority online. If i may suggest, you should look into your car setup. simply installing new parts on a car does not necessarily mean its gonna help the car go faster you need to adjust them. Just buying the full suspension and LSD and having them properly setup will make you faster. I went through alot of the tuners in the tuning forum and i really like Motor City Tunes. He has a load in info and great tunes for a number in vehicles. He has quick tunes which arent based on a specific car but a specific car layout like FF, FR, MR, RR, 4WD and so on. Seriously give him a try and his quick tunes. you can find him in the tuning forum under tuning Garages. His tunes have really upped my performance in GT5.
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Hey dude, thanks for your advice 👍

I use praiano's tunes but I don't tune all cars; when I do they handle better though but I still end up being a mobile chicane :(

I am finding myself getting better slowly, ignoring last night anyway, so I am confident that I will get there with a LOT of practice!
 
Rons' Rant:

Learn these concepts and spend a week (at least) concentrating on each (to begin):

* Steering Discipline. Consistence is the key word here. Learn this first, it is the keystone of driving.
* Weight transfer. Lateral and longitude. Learn how to roll a cars weight as you take a corner. Already mentioned in this thread. BigBazz is right on the nose.
* Trail Breaking. Already mentioned in this thread.
* Threshold Breaking. Breaking in a straight line. Learn this before trail breaking.
* Driving Line. There are many types of driving lines. Learn all you can about then. I can probably name 15 types of driving lines of the top of my head (I use them like flash cards while driving, pulling each out for the appropriate situation). Learn to "draw" the line from the END of a complex to the BEGINNING.
* Corner parts and types. Learn a corners parts and the different types of corners. This will help you choose the correct line.
* Oversteer/Understeer. Learn how to USE these traits. Learn what situational oversteer and understeer are and how and when to use them (there are few actions you can take that are as thrilling as inducing situational oversteer in a car with 4wd/understeer in a reducing radii corner).
* Attitude. Not yours but your cars. This refers to how the vehicle rests on its suspension. After you have driven for a while and become familiar with a particular car or type of car you will learn its different attitudes.

/end rant

As mentioned before www.drivingfast.net is a wonderful sight. Read it then re-read it, it will serve you well.
 
IMO - Your best bet once you know the theory is; short of being able to ride along with the driver; but get online with a good driver in the same car/setup/aids (i.e. if anything only abs to 1) and follow his line, braking points, accel points. Thats the best way IMO to get fast quick.

The best advice I can give you typing - Brake early, not too much, but just enough where you can hit the Apex as you go full throttle AS you straighten the wheel. If you can't go full throttle until you fully straighten the wheel you were braking too late. If you hit the brakes hard and the car spins at turn-in - you were braking too hard too late for the steering input (unless the setup of the car was FUBAR'ed). Use the throttle to finish the turn - steering to go into it.
 
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Guys thanks again for the tips! I have been reading up on drivingfast.net and I now have a better understanding of some areas of my driving that let me down... I have a long way to go but I will get there!

Thankfully I have 3 days off next week and I can use them to get a bit better hopefully :)
 

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