Driving without ABS

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mrbobta
hi...in this days i've tried to play with all aids off, all realistic and without abs...its more realistic and much more fun in my opinion...After half an hour of play, my arms were very tired :crazy:...i used nissan calsonic gt500 at suzuka 500cv, race tires with stock setup...I only changed lsd 10/15/5 and brake balance 2/1. Now, i'm having a problem slowing car down for tight corners. Pretty much every time I approach a tight corners i'll press the brake and the car will go from underneath me and i'll lose the back end, resulting in me either spinning out or going round it sideways. I've started braking at least 50m before the 'usual' braking points to avoid a lock up and spin
Anyway, my question is, is there a general way to combat this with the car set-up?...i'm not very expert with this and i've tried to make some change to sospension, camber, toe and I noticed that very small changes affect the car, driving without abs...my best time 1.53.6xx but I can improve at least 1 sec or more....thanks in advance
 
Increase front brake pressure. 2/1 is still a little high on the rear in relation. Also remember that the faster you're stopping, the less work the rear brakes can actually do.

Basically, tune your brake balance until the fronts are always the first to lock, and learn to modulate brake pressure to avoid lockup.

The reason ABS-on tunes use such high rear brake pressures is that the ABS is overly effective at preventing lockup so it doesn't destabilize the car any under maximum braking (though if you tend to trail-brake it'll loosen up then) but does shorten stopping distances measurably.
 
I am also taking on the "no ABS" task and RJ is right on the brake balances. I range from 2/1 on some FF cars to 4/0 on some street cars but generally I'm around 4/1 for the most part. I had the same problem as you initially with the rear end stepping out on some cars, mostly the MR's and cars that are generally loose and the brake balance adjustments helped but not in all cases.

In some cases I've had to retune, and while I generally don't use ballast, I find that I had to add some to the front of some of the MR cars to get them to stop rotating. I've also increased rear traction through higher spring settings, lower ARB's, and I tend to use positive toe front and rear now to stablize the car. I'm also upping the Decel LSD settings. I rarely used anything other then 5 with ABS, but now I'm finding 10-20 is working well on most cars.

There are some track sections that are extremely difficult without ABS, such as the first corner at Grand Valley, the left hander that is on a slight rise with negative camber before the hair pin. In that type of corner, you have to use very light braking over the rise and make sure the car is pointed straight before hitting them hard. A bit of trailing throttle helps too if you have a wheel. Using a slight amount of throttle while you are braking, in effect reduces the rear brake balance and stablizes the car.

The other thing I've done is modified my brake pedal so that there is good resistance right from the start and also to never use full braking power. At most I use about 60-70% but with the enhanced brake resistance, I find I can reduce it to 10-20% for trail braking quite consistently.

My laps times are now about the same with ABS off, in some cases faster, and I'm getting some consistency as well. In practicing for a Parity Race last night, in a stock 88' Lambo on SH tires I was able to run lap after lap within a half second at Fuji GT. In a Mini-Madness event I ran the first 12 laps within 4/10ths of my Q time.

I'm at the point now I think, fingers crossed, that I may never go back to ABS again, except in rare circumstances.
 
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then in your opinion is not a problem setup, but it's only a problem of learning how to modulate brake pressure to avoid lock up? no other changes to the setup respect to setup done when you drive with abs?
 
Downshifting causes more rear lock-up than a 2/1 BB.
I think I ran 4/2 when I tried it with a Lexus SC430, but the main key without ABS is not downshifting as you please entering corners hard on the brakes.
 
CSLACR
Downshifting causes more rear lock-up than a 2/1 BB.
Click to expand...

yes this is true....fast downshifting causes more rear lock-up .... for this reason I start braking at least 50m before the 'usual' braking points with gently downshifting to avoid a rear lock up....but over the method of braking what we can do with the setup to avoid rear lock up?
 
Well if your at 2/1 already, I guess you can add front brake power as said above, and loosen the intial lsd a little bit yet, maybe to 7 or 8.

You can also change the front/rear shock compression so the rear is stronger than the front, or moreso than it already is, whatever the case may be.
 
I don't use abs and now I generally use brake balance at 8/6. When I first started running without abs, I would have low brake balance settings, sometimes 4/1. rear brakes locking is the big problem for most people I think when they start to drive without abs.

The suspension, wheel alignment, LSD settings can help with fixing locking brakes. One thing I like is rear camber almost as high as at the front.

Driver input is also important. I apply very low level of braking force in the last meters of braking and my braking points are earlier when driving without abs.
 
Am I the only one that brakes at almost exactly the same spots without ABS?
It doesn't hurt stopping distances...:confused:
 
CSLACR
Am I the only one that brakes at almost exactly the same spots without ABS?
It doesn't hurt stopping distances...:confused:
Click to expand...


You're not the only one ...:) when I started playing without abs, my braking points were very much in advance .... I got more confidence now that the braking points are almost the same as when I play with abs... the trick is to manage well braking. I also noticed that the setup is essential to play without abs .... any small change affects the braking distance
 

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