Dynamic Weather -- is there a trick to getting variation

[chuyler1]

I ran an endurance race last night on Suzuka weather change with hopes that some weather would mix up pit strategy.

The room opened at 9:30 with it set to "sunny" and "Not fixed". By 10:00 when the race was going to start the sky was overcast. We raced for 90 minutes and it never rained. I'm very disappointed.

At least with time change you can specify the speed so you can guarantee some darkness. I'd like to guarantee rain during a 90 minute race...but not know when its going to happen.

 

[Merciless0ne]

Not that I'm aware of.

And yeah, you're right, in online lobbies at least, I think the only somewhat controlled variation is the time elapse. You can adjust the speed of the 'from day to dusk to night' cycle. Or vice-versa. Weather is completely random to me. I've only manage varying degrees of rain and fog. While I've never experienced snow before.

 

[chuyler1]

I've seen snow at SSR7 but that's it.

At Suzuka, there is no time change so you can't even use that to force the weather to speed up. We got varying degrees of clouds/sun but never even a sprinkle. Why would I bother selecting the weather change track if I didn't expect some variation.

 

[Techy]

Just like in real life, rain doesn't always kick in during overcast weather. The rain can be from a slight drizzle to a pounding heavy rain, or nothing at all. As to real life, it's completely random. I guess PD tries to capture that sense of realism to the game. But still, I hope PD implements more manipulation to Dynamic Weather.

@ Merciless0ne

Snow & Blizzards does occur on Chamonix. I also remember several months ago of someone discovering that Nordschleife having snow. I think it was a news headline.

 

[Nissan_Z32_90]

I've seen snow at SSR7 but that's it.

At Suzuka, there is no time change so you can't even use that to force the weather to speed up. We got varying degrees of clouds/sun but never even a sprinkle. Why would I bother selecting the weather change track if I didn't expect some variation.

I set the weather to sunny on ssr7 and it snowed the whole time...looked like I was traveling at the speed of light it was going by so fast, but still kinda disappointing. Sunny weather does not mean precipitation!?

 

[jjaisli]

The rain can be from a slight drizzle to a pounding heavy rain, or nothing at all. As to real life, it's completely random.

I don't think that's completely true though. I run a club/league and did a lot of testing. And there is a bit of a pattern. Here's what I posted in my group at the time:

After opening a lobby and resetting approximately 12 times over the course of the weekend, here's what I can tell you. (At least at Suzuka)

Roughly 3 out of 4 times, if you select weather as 'rain' but do NOT check 'fixed', you'll enter a wet course and the rain will continue to fall for 3~5 minutes. At that point, the rain will slow down, then stop and it will slowly dry out and within a few minutes the sun will come out. Within 20 minutes of opening the lobby, the track is usually dry enough to change to dry weather tires. Sometimes a few minutes longer, sometimes a few minutes less. Intermediates were pretty much useless because while it's raining, or immediately after it's been raining for a long time and the track is saturated with water, intermediates aren't really sufficient. Or rather I should say, that they seemed no quicker than full wets, even as the track was drying. So you only have a window of 2~4 laps, maximum where they're of any benefit over full wets.

Roughly 1 out of 4 times, if you select weather as 'rain' but do NOT check 'fixed', the rain continues to fall, non-stop with no let up for 1 ~ 1.5 hours. (I didn't bother to test it any longer). Misja and I discussed this together and the decision has been made to run this even, rain, fixed. So it will be raining the ENTIRE TIME.

It's not really what we wanted. Ideally, what we wanted was a race that started wet, rained for maybe 5~15 laps. And then stopped and slowly dried out. And then, maybe, started raining again with 5~10 laps left. Something that would be random and really shake up pit/tire strategy. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this is possible. I know I tested this extensively before the Lotus race and I know that it stopped raining and then started again, several times. But whether this only works at the Nurburgring or it no longer works period, after one of the patches, I can't say for sure. But it seems like we have one or the other but mixed conditions either don't happen or if they do, it seems completely random and quite rare.

If we would choose rain but not fixed, most likely it means we'll have a wet qualifying. But by the time qualifying is over, the track will be drying out. And there doesn't seem to be much point. So put on the rain shoes. The weather forecast is giving us a 99.9% chance of rain for the entire race.

Sorry that was a bit long winded and taken from a post I made within a social group. But in essence:
1. Open a lobby Sunny, (fixed) = non stop sun
2. Open a lobby Rain, (fixed) = non stop rain
3. Open a lobby Rain, (NOT fixed) = 75% chance of rain for 5 minutes and then it will stop, dry out and the sun will come out and everything will dry out within 20 minutes. 25% it will rain NON-stop and never let up.
4. Open a lobby Sunny, (NOT fixed) = 75% it will start dry and sunny and then maybe become cloudy. 25% it will turn to rain after a few minutes.

The thing is, my group is kind of rare in the sense that we plan races that run for up to 2 hours. I think very few people really do this online. Most online events, even in leagues run for a few laps up to maybe 30~40 minutes, tps. So I don't think PD really gave too much thought to conditions and how they extend out for more than a few laps worth of racing. And it seemed like from my testing the pattern was pretty much fixed. At least at Suzuka, you don't get truly "random and variable" weather. It either rains and stops. Or it keeps raining. But it doesn't go back and forth.

 

[chuyler1]

That's a bummer. We've got two series running the same schedule. Last night was 90 minutes at Suzuka and tonight is the same with a different group of racers. I'll have to see what they want to do, but it seems there will be nothing "variable" about variable weather.

 

[jjaisli]

No, I'm afraid not. Unless you count it stopping at the 5 minute mark 75% of the time as variable.

 

[chuyler1]

It's crap like this that pisses me off. PD could easily fix this with a few lines of code...but they'll never know about it because they're too busy fielding requests for more seasonal events and other improvements that people think are more necessary.

 

[jjaisli]

It's crap like this that pisses me off. PD could easily fix this with a few lines of code...but they'll never know about it because they're too busy fielding requests for more seasonal events and other improvements that people think are more necessary.

Don't even get me started. I'm sure we'll have 'racing shoes', in multiple colors, before they bother to fix the slipstream.

 

[chuyler1]

Ugg, slipstream. I've been exploiting that like crazy in my series. Each week drivers that place poorly get more to spend on their rides. I'm keeping up with 430-460pp cars with only 410pp. The slipstream on Suzuka improved my lap times by 2 seconds when I had a driver in a faster car in front of me (as long as they were slow enough in the corners for me to catch up at the end, yet fast enough not to slow my corner speeds).

 

[Morgoth_666]

Don't know if it's of any use, but...

Was running a long time in a private lounge on N24 time/weather yesterday, started @5:30am sunny, not fixed, time accel 4 or 5(I think 5), real grip loss, tire wear on. It turned quite overcast sometime in the first half hour, maybe 45 minutes. After 5+ hours it rained thrice. Once perhaps 2 hours in for about 4-5 minutes, once for about 5 seconds(I only knew it was raining because my wipers came on for a couple of swipes across the windshield and not by accident), and then once as it turned dark so well over 3 hours in for a bit longer - maybe 2.5 laps, just barely long enough for any spray to develop and then it stopped again until we quit. Seemed fairly heavy for a while but not enough to ever need to bring out wet tires.

Not sure how much it may vary between the tracks, but at that track I've mostly seen it either be very similar to that or else sopping wet and treacherous at the start but stopping after 5-10 minutes.

While we did have somewhat random visibility conditions, I don't think I've ever been in a room where it started dry and rained for long enough to actually require changing tires. I'm sure it may happen sometimes but it seems like only people willing to constantly run extremely long races would likely experience a complete shift like that.

Maybe an option for choosing between standard or extreme weather shift would be in order, not that it will ever happen. Guaranteeing sustained rain(or a long break in the rain) isn't necessarily the best either, but all things considered, when picking random weather, I'd think most people would probably like there to be at least a ~50/50 chance of having to make a tire strategy decision within an hour.

 

[Lion-Face]

As far as I'm aware it's random...maybe not if you test one after the other in the same lobby, but certainly for the racing league I run it on the few weather tracks it has been random.

Our races last between 1hour 30min - 2hours.

All races set to Sunny Not fixed
Monza Room1 - Rained first 3 laps, dried up for rest of race.
Monza Room 2 - Rained whole race.

Circuit de la Sarthe
Room 1 - Dry 5 laps, started to rain. Inters were fastest for a while then it rained harder about lap 11. Through to lap 18 Wets were the only option, then the rain eased off and eventually stopped raining, inters were the best choice for the last laps of the race through to lap 25. Time change was on, rained hardest at night.
Room 2, can't remember, I know it rained for a short period of time but mostly sunny and not heavy.

Suzuka
Room 1, Sunny the whole way through.
Room 2, Cloudy periods, no rain.

Seems random, I like the fact that just because you turn weather on doesn't mean it will happen. Rather than knowing it will happen, racers must judge the conditions themselves and make the call. My only wish was that all tracks had that option.

 

[chuyler1]

Well I think I'm going to choose Sunny non-fixed again tonight so drivers can qualify in the dry. My tuning options vary (something that can't be change once the race starts) so I'll have to decide how tight I want the car based on the conditions before the race starts. I can gain close to a second per lap with a more free setup, but I'll lose close to 5 seconds in the rain.

 

[chuyler1]

Ran the race last night and here's what happened...

9:15 private lobby open -- track set to suzuka, "rain" "not fixed"
9:25 rain stops
9:30 track still wet for qualifying, racing intermediate-rain tires are the best
9:55 i tested racing hards...still not dry enough
10:00 race starts, track pretty close to dry...should have gambled on the hards
10:20 intermediate-rain tires were toast after 9 laps, switched to racing hards
10:50 sprinkles
11:00 light rain
11:10 still light rain but no misting from cars, i pit for a second set of racing hards
11:35 at race end, still light rain and cars were misting but I never felt i lost grip on the racing hards

So we got some rain, which did affect pit strategy somewhat. I went an additional 3 laps on my racing hards to see if the sky was going to open up. I couldn't decide what tires to put on and since I was 18 seconds behind the leader, and the cars behind me were a good 30 seconds back, my only strategy would be to hope for a downpoor and put the racing rains on at just the right moment to catch the leader on grip (he was running more power than me so as long as he put down clean laps I was out classed). I still took a gamble going with racing hards but had the lead driver played it safe with racing intermediates I might have been able to catch him.

In the end, even a sprinkle can force some pit strategy. When you don't know what is going to happen, you gotta just watch your lap times and take a gamble each time you head to pit road. It would have turned ugly for me if it started raining after i put those racing hards on. In addition to losing 30 seconds to pit for rains, i might have had to do a full lap in the rain at very slow speeds just to get to pit road.

 

[zzz_pt]

Last weekend i had a race on La Sarthe 2009.

30min of Qualif + 2h30m of race... the rain just started after de race was over... lol

 

[watermelon punch]

I did quite a bit of testing on Eiger Nordwand Short Track Weather Change... With rain NON-fixed.
When I say testing, not actual racing, but I don't think it matters... I left a car on the track while doing other things (not on the ps3). I did this several times.

My conclusion is that what you get is random.
HOWEVER
There do seem to be some typical patterns, as to how long the rain will last.

But though I found patterns with the VISUAL appearance of rain... The changes in the track grip can vary wildly from that. So there seems to be 2 factors going on there. The visual of the rain... and the slippery condition of the track during rain, or after the sun comes out and the track starts to dry.
Even during what looks like heavy rain, the grip of the track varies a great deal!! It will always be more slippery during rain than on the REGULAR track. It's never grippy when it's raining. But there seems to be a variation of just how bad it might be while raining... or how long it will take for the track to dry after the sun comes out.

For example, in the Spitfire races we had 3 divisions. So that was 3 separate identical (as far as settings) races on Eiger Nordwand Short Track weather change 18 Laps... sports soft tires. Which in the Spit at that restriction, was roughly a 1/2 hour or less - even with the worst conditions. So from the time the track was loaded for qualifying, to the end of the race, 45 minutes or less would have elapsed.

Division X race @ Eiger (photos here) - Rained the entire time. It was very heavy through qualifying & most of the race. The sun never appeared. However, though the track was slippery... it really was not that bad at all, especially compared to how bad it is sometimes. Nobody was really fussing hard. Not like a dry track, surely. But the hairpins were fairly manageable, and the sweeping turn was rather okay as long you stayed on the driving line.

Division Y race @ Eiger (photos here)- It was raining at the start of qualifying, but not very heavy. By the time the race started the sun appeared. However, the track remained INCREDIBLY slippery for the ENTIRE race. Right from the get-go, everyone was fussing at a spinning crawl around the hairpins going sideways counter-steering like mad. It took til about lap 7 before people started picking up the pace just a tad. But there was always mist behind the cars, even on the last laps, when the sun had been shining since lap 1. And just generally, I would say the track was more slippery at the start of the race, than during the entire Division X race where the sun never came out & it rained the entire time. And the track at the end of the 18 laps, was rather almost as slippery as the 1st race in the rain.

Division Z race @ Eiger (photos here) - When the track was loaded, it was raining. But by the time everyone got on the track for qualifying within a minute... the sun came out. The track dried. It was a tad slippery the 1st few laps. But there was never any mist behind the cars by the time the race started. By halfway through the race, it was almost completely dry. By the last few laps of the race, I would be hard pressed to describe it as any more slippery than the regular non-weather track.


One thing... in many test sessions, once rain stopped, it never started again even after 1-1/2 hours. So I have no clue how long you need to have the track up & running for the rain to stop, and then start again.
It seems to me like if the track from loading to end of race is going to be less than 2 hours - if it stops raining & the sun comes out - the rain will likely not come back.

I have never done any testing with sunny non-fixed.
And I have not done any tests on any other weather change tracks, so they may vary as well.