Effortless perfection...

[Tarkata]

Well since there is a HUGE discussion about Ayrton Senna, i recommend you to watch this short documentary that was done by Top Gear

 

[Wankelhead]

No I didn't, I made that quite clear.

No, you didn't. You just denied and said that you gave a rational, plausible explanation, and proceeded to say that Senna's explanation was sensational and impossible (I don't disagree with sensational, as for impossible, just keep reading). To which I say, you said the same with diferent words, his' just were more poeticized (this, meaning that his words shouldn't be taken so literally). I even showed you proof. The matching parts of yours and Senna's statements. If you don't want to see it, it's ok. Let's at least agree in disagreeing.

That is your opinion. Perhaps me and other people consider concise, scientific explanations more beautiful than super-natural ones.

Actually, I wasn't saying that it was more beautiful to me.
What I meant with the word beautiful was really to relate to my following statement about poets, just meaning Senna's statements were more "beautiful", just like poems. Hence the reason why I added quotes.

I dont disagree with this. He was making himself seem super-natural, or as I so eloquently put, "talking out of his arse" and since I'm not a die hard fan of him, I wasnt swooned by it. Thats all

Yea, I'm not a fan of his either. Quite far from it actually.
I'm a Schumi, Herbert and Tsuchiya fan.

Because there is really nothing I can say to this .. other than I never said it was an easy state of mind to get into. I said doing the same thing over and over will increase your proficiency.

To me, you implied that when you said:

"Once you stop the 'learning' phase, your mind switches to an 'autopilot' phase and you start thinking about other things."

Leading to:

"When you do things without thinking about them, you remove doubt, fear, pressure. Things that would get in a way of peak performance."

To which you know what I replied.


From those words, what I get is:

After going lap after lap, and knowing the track well (stopping the 'learning' phase), we "get in the zone" (the mind switches to 'autopilot' phase).

Is that not what you meant?
Either you're contradicting yourself, or I'm really bad at interpreting the meaning in text.

But keep in mind i'm referencing Kids playing video games sitting on a sofa in their house. Which bears absolutely nothing in relation to going around turns at 200mph knowing you can die at any moment

By kids, are you meaning the people who posted in this thread about their experiences?

I'm pretty sure that not everyone who posted, is a kid. If anyone actually is.

Well since there is a HUGE discussion about Ayrton Senna, i recommend you to watch this short documentary that was done by Top Gear

Yea, I had seen it already while watching Top Gear vids. Good stuff 👍

 

[DeolTheBeast]

I have experienced this exact sensation before!

It has mainly been on GT4 where I used to put in countless, consistent laps with tuned LMP cars to get the fastest times (on the 'Ring I should mention)

Using a DFP at the time I could just "know" how the cars would react and respond to the bumps and camber changes in the track. To me the best way of describing it would be "un-focusing" my eyes from the car and the circuit ahead and everything would seem to just be good and as I would hope it to be. Like nothing would stop me. I thought it was weird that I could get into this state of mind whilst also playing on manual - really felt like I was in some zone.


Now, back to reality!

 

[Jaywalker]

I don't think I did.

I gave a rational, plausible explanation.

He literally said he was in a different dimension and he was no longer driving the car consciously. That is impossible.

You contradicted yourself right here in your earlier post:

Once you stop the 'learning' phase, your mind switches to an 'autopilot' phase and you start thinking about other things.

Being in 'autopilot' is the same thing as driving the car unconsciously.

 

[Dry7123]

But keep in mind i'm referencing Kids playing video games sitting on a sofa in their house. Which bears absolutely nothing in relation to going around turns at 200mph knowing you can die at any moment

Now you're just crossing the line here, please keep your slander, arrogant and inadequate false accusations to yourself... I am no kid, and I do know what I'm talking about. You act like it's my fault that I can't become a professional race car driver. This is the closest thing I have to real racing, hence the name "driving simulator". Not everybody has the oppertunity to get into a team and race for fun. Hell Canada doesn't have a GT academy, what gives dude?

I would also really like to refer to Einsteins theory and intellect. Just cause you can't prove something, doesn't mean that it's false. This is pretty close to what I'm talking about. You would have to be lieing if you never had an experience in your life where you couldn't prove something you can't explain. Sure others wouldn't believe you, but as humans that we are, we only know what we feel and so we have no other reason other than to go from there...

And from what I understand, I'm not alone when I enter this sense effortless output. It's just a frame of perfection at the expense of little to no effort. I find it rather special because that sensation is such a rarity in most drivers. I'm not trying to classify myself within an "elitist" demographic, but I am well above average when it comes to motorsport racing. (Albeit karting IRL or racing online.)

And do you ever wonder why everybody is quoting Senna about this trance that everybody is talking about? He seem's to have the closest connection to what we're all talking about, regardless if he was aggressive or hypocritical. Not only does Senna get what we're talking about, he also explains ample proof that this is a very special place to be in while racing. It's almost like an addiction, by the time you're done you're completely satisfied, but for some reason, you seem to want to reach that limit again and just push a little bit more.

What I can't seem to wrap my mind around, is that you seem very intelligent when it comes to motor racing, but you're trying to disaprove of everything that's being said in this thread. You have experience from racing but yet you choose to deny the fact that this feeling is common amongst a lot of drivers from around the world. Quit being so negative and actually do what I asked in the first post and share your experience, don't fight it. You're just poisening yourself.

Btw I am a happy 20 year old that's making $56.87 an hour at a port terminal, with a lovely girlfriend that has lasted well over 2.5 year relationship in a logcabin that's 3200 sqare ft. I am well off on my own and not just some kid that sits on the couch all day. Atleast I have an ambition to strive with motorsport racing, and not feel the need to just express my negative, unrelated P.O.V. in a thread that you so willingly have given so far...

Sure happiness and anger require the same effort, but it's YOUR decision on which one to focus upon.

Lighten up man...

EDIT

That is your opinion. Perhaps me and other people consider concise, scientific explanations more beautiful than super-natural ones.

From what I've seen so far, YOU are the only one trying to consider these simplified explanations...

 

[Dry7123]

I notice that no one has mentioned another phenomenon that this "unconcious" state also can do. I had done a few laps in my FGT Formula 500 tuned car at Spa and realized I was driving better on this track than I ever have on any other track even in the same car when I realized I only remember 3 out of the 10 laps I had done, the first lap and the las two. After lap one I had apparently fallen into this state. Whether or not the learnings had stuck I haven't tested yet as I haven't been back on GT5 since those laps last night. I guess I'll have to see tonight.

Yes I am well aware of this state too, thanks for reminding. I forgot about this side of "the zone".

Another state that nobody seemed to bring up, was the ability to follow a car without looking at it's tail lights. In f1 2012, I was racing at melbourne, and I noticed that I wasn't really racing, I was just keeping pace with Alonso's ferrari that was just within drafting distance ahead of me. Next thing I notice, the past 8 laps have been consecutively within 0.0xx. That's a couple hundredths within a course of 12 min. I was just following and letting him be my marker for when to slow down or to let off when going wide through a turn. It truly fascinates me when I realize that I made it to and through that moment.

It's sort of like being hypnotized with a 6th sense. Where to brake, when to throttle through a turn when the rear's get loose, what to judge when an accident occurs in this mindset, how to filter out the pit crews statistics via radio, how to look through a turn and what turns to give a wider apex through...

Mind you I found myself completely lost and rendered useless when I realised that, I was no longer behind him when he pit, and 2, the grid positions from 4th-7th was less than 4 seconds away from me.

It makes me sad when I'm classified as the "black sheep" in the herd out of all my friends. I'm the only one who got to experience the thrill of racing as a child in gaming. (Driver, road rash 3, hotwheels turbo racing, test drive, colin mcrea rally, GT1, GTA 1.) They all were brought up on the n64 and I don't blame them, the N64 has some addicting games. Smash bro's brawl, golden eye, metroid series, and other top notch pokemon and zelda games. But there is still so much more they're missing out on when it comes to motorsport gaming. Wether it be iracing, gt5, f4, nfs, toca racer, nascar, f1, dirt etc...

 

[Tarkata]

Let me just add that i think this happens in most games not only in Motorsports.
Some games that i have also felt this state of unconscious: GTA, Minecraft, Runescape, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc.

 

[W3H5]

To be able to just dig deep and get into that trance of full concentration. It's a loss of awareness from where you were to whats coming at you. All it is is just you, the car, and the upcoming corner.

This is a very profound place to be.

I used to lap a relatively small track on GT4, like Apricot Hill for example, and after some time my brain would switch off from the world, just a small part of my brain actually controlling my thumbs on the controller.

I was meditation for me in an especially stressful time of my life. I'm not sure if my eyes were even focused on the screen. It was more like I was just looking straight through it.

I could set lap after lap within micro seconds of each other without actually knowing how it was happening as my mind was elsewhere.

 

[Jaywalker]

Now you're just crossing the line here, please keep your slander, arrogant and inadequate false accusations to yourself... ...From what I've seen so far, YOU are the only one trying to consider these simplified explanations...

Good post, man...

 

[Dry7123]

This is a very profound place to be.

I used to lap a relatively small track on GT4, like Apricot Hill for example, and after some time my brain would switch off from the world, just a small part of my brain actually controlling my thumbs on the controller.

I was meditation for me in an especially stressful time of my life. I'm not sure if my eyes were even focused on the screen. It was more like I was just looking straight through

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. It's like you aren't even aware. You just go around corner after corner, lap after lap. It is a wonderful place to be in for me because, it's quite possibly the only place that brings me to a sense of timeless and painless state of mind. The only thing I can closely relate this feeling to, is when I'm at my lowest mentally listening to heavy metal as a stress reliever. Although they are not the same feelings, but the sense of being relieved is still there.

From what I understand, this emotion is a very powerful emotion. To be able to just let it take control over you and just sit back and enjoy the ride type of feeling. It is indeed very special. I just hope I can learn how to enter this stress free type of "mode" a lot more sooner than later.

Cheers man.

Let me just add that i think this happens in most games not only in Motorsports.
Some games that i have also felt this state of unconscious: GTA, Minecraft, Runescape, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc.

I understand that just about any game or hobby you seem fond of can give you this sense of relaxed unawareness of time. When I play guitar, I happen to notice that 5 min. that I thought passed me by, is actually 2 hours and 20 min. at 3am. Haha, but I would just like to re-iterate that I seem to find this state of mind most intense when I'm racing. Your concentration and inability to realise your own talent is just through the roof. Good luck on finding your happiness.

 

[amkobih]

This is a very profound place to be.

I used to lap a relatively small track on GT4, like Apricot Hill for example, and after some time my brain would switch off from the world, just a small part of my brain actually controlling my thumbs on the controller.

I was meditation for me in an especially stressful time of my life. I'm not sure if my eyes were even focused on the screen. It was more like I was just looking straight through it.

I could set lap after lap within micro seconds of each other without actually knowing how it was happening as my mind was elsewhere.

This also happened to me so many times while I was driving around The 'Ring in GT4.
I always felt strange afterwards as I couldn't really remember anything about my laps.

 

[rallymorten]

I tend to get this kind of feeling quite often, not sure why, be it school work or Nürburgring. It's a very hard feeling to describe. I have it happening on most GT tracks, my mind just instantly tells my thumb how much steering input to make, my index fingers (or what you'd call them) if I have to gear up/down and my middle fingers if I should brake more and when I can begin accelerating. I don't know how but it just happens, against my will.

Adding to the Ayrton Senna quote, this also kinda reminds me of a quote from The Fast and The Furious (say what you want but words of wisdom are spoken in it):

"I live my life a quarter mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team and all their bull****. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free."

Completely different ballgame some may say, but if you think about it it can almost be seen as a newer interpretation of the Senna quote. You get so focused on one thing everything non-important bar what's keeping you alive is just shut off.

 

[JR86]

I get this a lot, most good drivers tend to I believe. I call it a racing trance, where you think of nothing and only your hands (and feet if using wheel) are doing anything. My best racing moments have come from me being in the racing trance. It's like you don't react, you just, act, as I like to put it. Before you realize you've done something, you have already done it. Then you think "wow, I'm driving really well", and you keep driving amazingly. It doesn't happen that often now as I listen to music while driving but if I am just listening to the car then I can easily turn on the racing trance.

I watched a show hosted by Jeremy Clarkson which talked a bit about this, also the book Speed Secrets talks about subconscious driving as well

 

[Dry7123]

Thats what I was beginning to think what this trance was. Consciously driving subconsciously. Just the way you act and drive is completely lost from concentration. It's really hard to define whats happening during this state, but something does definitely spark and happen. It's the fact that you really can't exactly remember what you did or how you did it is what's bugging me. The only information that replicates what you did on that lap is the lap replay. That or either recording yourself when racing at that moment.

It is truly a unique experience to be able to say that I have entered this mode of racing, and for that I find myself being more appreciative and thankful when it comes to racing.

 

[fbccars924]

I notice that no one has mentioned another phenomenon that this "unconcious" state also can do. I had done a few laps in my FGT Formula 500 tuned car at Spa and realized I was driving better on this track than I ever have on any other track even in the same car when I realized I only remember 3 out of the 10 laps I had done, the first lap and the las two. After lap one I had apparently fallen into this state. Whether or not the learnings had stuck I haven't tested yet as I haven't been back on GT5 since those laps last night. I guess I'll have to see tonight.

So I went back and tested ^this theory and It seems the "effortless learning" works. I went back after 2 days and was driving right at .5 secs consistency with my previous times of the bat and bested my best time by about 1.5seconds.

 

[MTLclllutch]

This being in the moment has been proven to be a state of mind. A concious thought process. It does not improve decision making or reaction times. It actually is not the most efficient way of using a brain. Concentrate on your task with all of your power and remove any other ideas that pop into your mind as fast as possible.

 

[fbccars924]

^this is untrue. Subconscious learning and use of the memorized motions while in this state makes long stints of driving less tiring physically and mentally.

 

[Tarkata]

^this is untrue. Subconcious learning and use of the memorized motions while in this state makes long stints of driving less tiring physically and mentally.

Did the subconscious learned by it serf or did it just used what the conscious learned?

Man I love this topic

 

[fbccars924]

No, It's learning on the subconscious level, In a sense it's muscle memory. Muscle memory can intersect the line between the conscious and sub conscious mind(two separate parts of one whole). If you can, as I stated before, run a lap or two and get your self in the "zone" your subconscious mind will learn the track, as does your muscular portion of the brain meaning 10-15 laps in you realize you've shaved X amount of time off your lap times and didn't even notice.

 

[Ninners]

I have experienced this too,I used to enter a GT500 championship with my friends(ended 2 weeks ago,I won the championship).I'm often busy on weekdays so my only practice is on Friday afternoon,with the race and qualifying in the evening(I will take our Suzuka race as an example),I join,under no pressure and destroy the fastest time set there,then I keep on getting faster,eventually I got pole by 2 seconds,come to race(20 laps),tyre wear will be critical,our team decide to use mediums for the race,I started the race knowing our target is to 1 stop(tyre wear was on fast to encourage more pitstops)I knew our team had planned to save tyres to push for the last 3 laps of a stint,at lap 2,I relaxed and just kept driving,when I woke up I discovered I was 40seconds ahead and my brother was knocking at the door,I had hotskip out and open it,cost me around 10seconds,before I pitted on lap 9,then on lap 11 it happened again,until lap 14 when I had a moment with a backmarker which woke me up,I then noticed my lead was up to 35seconds and decided I should make an extra stop to make sure I don't struggle with tyre life towards the end,rejoined 10seconds ahead after that,I realised how good that choice was,my teammates were struggling with tyres badly and my lead was up to 1 minute,I won comfortably and it felt awesome to win at such a special circuit,with such little practice,which left my teammate waiting for answers and asking for the my setup.

 

[Tarkata]

No, It's learning on the subconscious level, In a sense it's muscle memory. Muscle memory can intersect the line between the conscious and sub conscious mind(two separate parts of one whole). If you can, as I stated before, run a lap or two and get your self in the "zone" your subconscious mind will learn the track, as does your muscular portion of the brain meaning 10-15 laps in you realize you've shaved X amount of time off your lap times and didn't even notice.

So it is like a cooperation between does two parts of the brain? 👍

 

[fbccars924]

So it is like a cooperation between does two parts of the brain? 👍

Pretty much yeah.