Enduro w/ friend--mismatched skill

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Kamdoon

Kamdoon

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Khamdoon
Anyone have any ideas how my friend and I could do the Nurburgring 24h together? One catch: he's not that great a driver. In fact, he sort of sucks. He doesn't play a whole lot, and I don't think he even currently owns any LMP's or faster.

I'm sure we could do the Redbull x201x, but driving that car bores the &*( out of me. I was thinking maybe we could each do some time trials with cars to find a car where the average of both our time trial averages is equal to the needed-to-win laps (I think around 170?), e.g., if I need 7 minute times, and I can do a 6:30 and he can do a 7:30 in car x, then we go with car x. Any other ideas?

Has anyone else raced an enduro with a mismatched partner? What did you do/how did it work out?

Additionally, which handicap-settings (ASM, driving-line, etc.) can be changed mid-race?
 
First of all I would suggest some cars from the lower pp range, as I often find that they bring the opponents closer together and give more chances to fight each other instead of fighting against individual lack of driving skill.

The one I would always recommend is e.g. the Alfa TZ2. Not too slow, easy to drive, gives good response about it's limits. Nice sound and - if required - nice cockpit view as well.

So perhaps a one-make race in this car would do the job. If you're really running in different classes, you could adjust the pp-limiter, or to give you more thrill: You could downgrade your tyres one ore two steps.
 
Ahhh... didn't even think about the tires. That would be any easy way to handicap it.
 
Tires would be the biggest thing for sure. If you map some buttons to activate and control the RA menu, you can adjust traction control and ABS during the race, as well as brake pressures. Torque split is also available from that menu, not sure about ASM. If you use a wheel you can put the buttons to control that on your controller so you don't have to change your wheel buttons. Unfortunately you can't change manual vs automatic transmission mid race(a big reason why I never suggested trying this with my local GT5 buddy).

Good luck, it's sure to be a fun time!
 
Did you watched the Top Gear episode where they actually do a real 24 hours race. Apart from being an epic tv moment, you can see there's a huge difference in talent between The Stig and Captain Slow. Look at which country May is representing :lol: Pretty sure the episode is on PS Store now, at a fee though .

I think you gotta focus on lap time, i'm sure theres a approximate lap time around here that you need to get ahead of, in order to win a particular endurance races. Shoe's thread might be a good start.
The better you are, less mistake you can afford, its exponential. Recognise where your friends makes mistake. Its a video game endurance races after all, if you see you are falling behind your estimated lap time, you can take control. You may ignore the seat rule.
 
Try and lower your HP, give him a headstart at the beginning and use a more slippy tyre.
 
Or try the DeadNutsEven formula for the closest possible racing ever. Take a car and both tune and qualify it to a given lap time...then race.
 
Johnnypenso
Or try the DeadNutsEven formula for the closest possible racing ever. Take a car and both tune and qualify it to a given lap time...then race.
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That's a very good idea, but you probably need to make sure the time you aim for has a bit of extra margin to what you need to run in order to win -- the slower driver in this case is very likely to also have much more inconsistent lap times with more errors.
 
We do it every week in DeadNuts, sometimes twice a week. If you prepare for it, we can usually have everyone running within 1 or 2 tenths of the target time lap after lap, exclusive of the draft of course. The more preparation you have, the closer you'll be. Less skilled drivers will be more inconsistent of course, but in DeadNuts they are allowed to use one tire compound softer to achieve the target time, pretty much equalizing everyone in terms of cornering and straightaway speed.
 
If you are BOTH running the same race, and switching off driving duties to complete the thing....
I'd say one of the JGTC Racing NSX's. Way faster than the PP suggests, easy to drive, good handling, easy on tires...
If you are racing against each other, I have no idea.
 
Johnnypenso
We do it every week in DeadNuts, sometimes twice a week. If you prepare for it, we can usually have everyone running within 1 or 2 tenths of the target time lap after lap, exclusive of the draft of course. The more preparation you have, the closer you'll be. Less skilled drivers will be more inconsistent of course, but in DeadNuts they are allowed to use one tire compound softer to achieve the target time, pretty much equalizing everyone in terms of cornering and straightaway speed.
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I think I may have been a bit unclear about what I meant by "inconsistent" and "mistakes." I didn't mean it as in: a skilled driver will run almost all of his laps within a few tenths of his target, a decent driver will vary by a bit over a second, and a poor driver may have 2 or 3 or more seconds of variability due to frequently sliding way wide or similar "normal" mistakes. I meant that in 12 hours of constant driving (particularly with fatigue setting in if the race is run in a fairly short timespan, along with distractions and such) there are probably going to be quite a few times when the less reliable driver completely stuffs it and loses 10-30 seconds at a time, whereas the more competent driver might very well not do that at all or only once.

I'm not criticizing your suggestion or method of finding an even lap time between the drivers(I actually think it's a great idea for online racing and useful for something like this as well). What I meant was that you need to make a bit of extra allowance in your planned target time to account for the fact that in a long endurance race with a more-or-less casual driver, there are likely to be a few major issues unrelated to actual pace arising like running out of gas or getting stuck half a mile off track or completely destroying a set of tires in a quarter of a fuel stint.

These issues can happen to any of us but tend to be much more frequent among those who don't race nearly every day and haven't honed their skills to the best of their ability, be they fast or slow. We can also probably assume that the more casual driver isn't going to be quite as prepared as the regular driver, no matter how much they initially intend to practice.
 
Most of you have missed the point entirely. The OP is trying to find a car he and his pal can BOTH use to complete the 24 hour Nurb together . They are not trying against each other.
OP, Gil's suggestion is a good one, any of the JGTC cars will offer a fun trip around the Nurb. I have faith your pal will get much better after a few laps as well. It's a matter of practice, and the enduro will surely get him plenty of that 👍
 
Rayzah
Most of you have missed the point entirely. The OP is trying to find a car he and his pal can BOTH use to complete the 24 hour Nurb together . They are not trying against each other.
OP, Gil's suggestion is a good one, any of the JGTC cars will offer a fun trip around the Nurb. I have faith your pal will get much better after a few laps as well. It's a matter of practice, and the enduro will surely get him plenty of that 👍
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Your right he did say he wanted to find a car but he also did say what settings to put to make the race more fair for both of the drivers or anything that would handicap the race to make it fair.
 
TwistyDrift
Your right he did say he wanted to find a car but he also did say what settings to put to make the race more fair for both of the drivers or anything that would handicap the race to make it fair.
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That fairness angle is what I've been trying to get at. The idea (I think) is to have a fun time with a friend while doing the race over a weekend, making it not be a boring complete walkover but at the same time not a pointless waste of 24 hours only to inevitably lose. You want to have a car that both can enjoy driving and a plan for what changes to make so that each driver can contribute roughly equally to the eventual win. It will take some work to find that balance obviously(it always does, even by yourself -- setting it up for multiple people is even more complex), but the reward should be quite worth it. Car choice is mostly down to what each driver is comfortable with, but as a rule the more experienced driver can adapt to whatever car the less experienced one prefers - at least a lot more easily than the other way round.
 
I'm currently doing this race in the Orca Viper (stock power and a basic set up).

It's a nice car to drive and will do 4 lap stints on race softs, 5 laps on mediums and 6 on hards. On softs, it has really great traction for all 4 laps, on hards, it starts to need care on lap 5 and 6 of a stint.

Depending on the AI line-up, you need to be running around 8 minute laps in the dry (not including pit stop laps, which will be considerably longer)... I'm running (depending on tyre wear), 7.40-8.50 on softs and 7.55-8.05 on hards... this is driving quick but conservative laps to preserve tyres and minimise fuel use... avoiding sliding the car or using too much of the outside kerbing on exits, braking smoothly and early, lot's of coasting to the apex and short shifting on the exits.

I'd recommend the Viper as long as you get a dry race... if you get a wet race I'd say you might find your less skilled friend will need quite a bit of traction control given how the car feels on worn hard slicks (my race is 14 hours old, and it's been 100% dry so far).

A better car choice for someone less experienced might be something like one of the race prepared R35's, with an upgraded turbo.... 1200kg and 700ish bhp would be good enough to beat the LMP oposition.

The only changes you can make mid race are TC/ASM and brake balance/ABS... you can't switch the driving line on/off or SRF on/off.
 
Morgoth_666
That fairness angle is what I've been trying to get at. The idea (I think) is to have a fun time with a friend while doing the race over a weekend, making it not be a boring complete walkover but at the same time not a pointless waste of 24 hours only to inevitably lose. You want to have a car that both can enjoy driving and a plan for what changes to make so that each driver can contribute roughly equally to the eventual win. It will take some work to find that balance obviously(it always does, even by yourself -- setting it up for multiple people is even more complex), but the reward should be quite worth it. Car choice is mostly down to what each driver is comfortable with, but as a rule the more experienced driver can adapt to whatever car the less experienced one prefers - at least a lot more easily than the other way round.
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This.
All good advice, though, folks, thanks for the input!

BTW what is DeadNuts -- there is a username here DeadNuts but it seems you are talking about a race or set of races?
 
Kamdoon
BTW what is DeadNuts -- there is a username here DeadNuts but it seems you are talking about a race or set of races?
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Click the link in Johnny's signature that says DeadNuts Racing on it. 👍
 
Pays to pay attention, I suppose! :dunce: Thanks.👍
 
No problem. How often do we really look at each other's signatures really? ;)
 
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