Engine Displacement Upgrades for ALL cars

[comet_65cali]

This is one thing that made me confused in every single version of Gran Turismo.

No matter what car, no matter what engine, displacement increase should be available to all cars. It's all a matter of machining and such, and if you have the money why not? have it in stages, from 100cc, 250cc, 500cc, and 1000cc increases.

The aircool VWs in GT4 were great, but riduclously slow. While the cars were restricted to 1100 and 1500cc respectfully, you can build engines up to 2600cc on a Type I motor. some people can get 350-400hp out of their aircooled VWs.

Even Rotaries, by increasing the size and depth of the cavity on the rotors, can benefit from displacement increase.

I say if you can get a carbon fiber monochoque for anycar (which should be millions of credits alone) they should have displacement upgrades for every car.

 

[GT-driver]

You can't just increase the displacement on any car, you've got to take a lot of things into account, like the distance between the cilinders, the thikness of the pistons and such.

 

[Jim Prower]

You can't just increase the displacement on any car, you've got to take a lot of things into account, like the distance between the cilinders, the thikness of the pistons and such.

Yeah, but just about any American V8 can be bored and stroked. the manufacturers built them that way to make more than one displacement out of the same block.

 

[Dimitrov]

Yeah, but just about any American V8 can be bored and stroked. the manufacturers built them that way to make more than one displacement out of the same block.

But you'll reach a limit. That's what GT-Driver said.

You cannot keep upgrading an engine displacement forever. That is not enough room for larger chambers. Also the distance between them must be safe.

The discussion here, Jim, as proposed by comet_65cali, was about upgrading those small engines. The american / japanese / swedish /<insert natoinality here> V8 engine manufactured nowadays certainly has a common base so it can be molded, forged in a determinated range of compression rates, cc, etc. Volvo recently made a plan to reduce their amount of different components (about 80%), so with a small range of pieces they can manufacture several types of trucks or cars. Just like some LEGO pieces.

Obviously you know about that. I Just wanted to add a little more to this thread.

 

[comet_65cali]

Well yes there are limits to how much displacement you can get out of an engine. Displacement steps I suggested can't all be available to every car. But just like the Turbo Kit Upgrades, even the smallest 100cc displacement upgrade should be available on any car. It doesn't have to be a Bore increase. Stroker kits are available for alot of Japanese motors that aren't allowed displacement upgrades in the Game. SR20DETS in the Silvias have 2.2l Stroker Kits available from Tomei and JUN automotive. RB series nissan motors, no matter what car really, can be increased to 3.0L Stroker kits.

 

[comet_65cali]

You can't just increase the displacement on any car, you've got to take a lot of things into account, like the distance between the cilinders, the thikness of the pistons and such.

Yet you can get a CF monocoque body/chassis for ANY road going car in the games. 2CV, VW Bug, you name it, in the game there isn't a road car that you CAN'T get it.

That little Fiat 500 in the game? guess what, instead of 500cc, you can put in a 850cc motor into the suckers. It's a matter of replacing the cylinder walls, and increasing the stroke.

If that flight of fancy is in the game, the more realistic and cheaper (realitive to the chassis) option of upgrading your displacement should be allowed, again for any car.

 

[Jim Prower]

You can raise almost any small block Chevy to upwards of 400CI, and any big-block engine, of any manufacturer, upwards of 500ci....

 

[comet_65cali]

You can raise almost any small block Chevy to upwards of 400CI, and any big-block engine, of any manufacturer, upwards of 500ci....

Oh, no doubt. The ford 302 can be stroked to 347 easily. The 351 Ford motor can infact be stroked to 460ci

But the simple matter of fact on this thread, is that it should be available to ALL cars, not just hondas

 

[BMWteamPTG]

not all cars. alot of top notch cars are bored to their limits. but to be available to more cars than less is agreeable.

 

[Dave A]

Most cars, that includes supercar's, sportscars, family car's etc can be bored out quite a bit, even the Veyron's engine would be capable of being bored out and I know this becasue the W8's used to create the W16 can be bored out quite a bit, might not do the reliabilty any good though.

 

[guska]

RB series nissan motors, no matter what car really, can be increased to 3.0L Stroker kits.

The RB 30 is already 3.0L unless I am mistaken, and can be bored and stroked to 4.5L (with the use of titanium sleeves and such).

Just a question, which cars CAN you increase the displacement on (in the game)

 

[235RX-7GT-C]

It also might depend on what the engine block is made out of. Aluminum is pretty tough to bore out, most of the displacement increases are out of cast iron block or sleeves.

 

[throttlehappy]

its funny how you can increase the displacement in a r32 n1 skyline but cant increase american v8's
seems biased if you ask me
pi$$es me off actually
maybe its because a stroked v8 with a supercharger/turbo or twin turbo would decimate all

 

[Dave A]

Well, it wouldn't, it's be fast as hell but so is a turbo'd inline 4 or inline 6 or V6 etc. The Skyline is to the best of my knowledge, the only car in GT games that's everbeen able to have it's displacement increased so it's not like it's discriminating against anything non Japanese. But the option really should be available to almost all the cars with varying levels of increase available to some.

 

[VVENOM800TT]

They should also list the new displacement, because they still list the stock displacement after you perform the service in GT4.

 

[throttlehappy]

Well, it wouldn't, it's be fast as hell but so is a turbo'd inline 4 or inline 6 or V6 etc. The Skyline is to the best of my knowledge, the only car in GT games that's everbeen able to have it's displacement increased so it's not like it's discriminating against anything non Japanese. But the option really should be available to almost all the cars with varying levels of increase available to some.

theres no replacement for displacement.
ls1's with twin turbo kits over here run in the 9's
an unopened ls1 with a bolt on supercharger can do 10 to 11

is it just me or did your post not make any sense
id say it is discriminating against anything non Japanese if the only car that can have its displacement increased is of all cars a skyline

 

[Dave A]

It must be jsut you because how does "The Skyline is to the best of my knowledge, the only car in GT games that's ever been able to have it's displacement increased, so it's not like it's discriminating against anything non Japanese. But the option really should be available to almost all the cars with varying levels of increase available to some." not make any sence, is English your first language?

The first part of my last post was direct at the idea that V8's can dessimate all, they can be tuned to go fast but so can a well tuned inline 4 or a V6 or a V12 or an inline 6 etc. I've seen inline 4 engined car's run below 9 second quarter mile times as well, so what. It's fast, but sub 9 second times are most definitely not limited to V8's, any engine with the right tuning can di it, I'd seen a good number of car's with 4 or 6 cylinder engines that are capable of thoes times.

And I'd dissagree that it's discriminating against anything, since there's car's like the Evo, Supra, 3000GT, RX7 etc, and none of them can have it done. Maybe, just maybe that Nissan is the only car the manufacturer that allowed that modification to be done to and even then it was just to certain car's in the Skyline model range, ever think of that.

 

[throttlehappy]

It must be jsut you because how does "The Skyline is to the best of my knowledge, the only car in GT games that's ever been able to have it's displacement increased, so it's not like it's discriminating against anything non Japanese. But the option really should be available to almost all the cars with varying levels of increase available to some." not make any sence, is English your first language?

The first part of my last post was direct at the idea that V8's can dessimate all, they can be tuned to go fast but so can a well tuned inline 4 or a V6 or a V12 or an inline 6 etc. I've seen inline 4 engined car's run below 9 second quarter mile times as well, so what. It's fast, but sub 9 second times are most definitely not limited to V8's, any engine with the right tuning can di it, I'd seen a good number of car's with 4 or 6 cylinder engines that are capable of thoes times.

And I'd dissagree that it's discriminating against anything, since there's car's like the Evo, Supra, 3000GT, RX7 etc, and none of them can have it done. Maybe, just maybe that Nissan is the only car the manufacturer that allowed that modification to be done to and even then it was just to certain car's in the Skyline model range, ever think of that.

jsut me? "The Skyline is to the best of my knowledge, the only car in GT games that's ever been able to have it's displacement increased, so it's not like it's discriminating against anything non Japanese." thats exactly what there doing!!! descriminating against anything non Japanese/skyline by only having those cars able to take that mod!
english is my only laungauge
maybe you should take a lesson
sure 4 and 6's can go fast but it depends on what you like
vrrrrroooomm vrrrrooooooom or rin tin tin chsssshhhh's (rice burners)
you dont see top fuel dragsters running inline 4's or 6's
or racing le mans for that matter
f1 orginally began with v8's didnt it?
i wonder why? more potential maybe

what is the right amount of tuning anyway?
200k on a 4 cylinder

 

[Dave A]

It's like me saying you discriminate against any other language but English, because that's the only one you speak. There's far more to what mod's can be done to what car's than simply PD decidding it should be done, they need to get the manufacturer's permission, for example, if Chevy say they dopn't want any turbo's on thier Vettes, then theres no turbo's on their Vette's, simple as.

The fastest and most powerful F1 car's ever, used inline 4's, GT race car's use anything from inline 4's to V12's, your talking drag racing only, sure I can accept that maybe some V8's are better suited to drag racing, but you can still get faster inline 4's than most people's V8's. Every engine has more potential for certain uses, a V8 then, will not decimate all, it's far from the best engine to use off road since a smilarly sized diesel inline 4 will produce not much less power but far, far more torque. Every engine has plusses and minuses, the most powerful and arguably greatest F1 car's of all time used inline 4's a lot of great GT car's use 6, 10 and 12 cylinders as well as 8. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who won't appreciate your rice burner comment.

 

[throttlehappy]

It's like me saying you discriminate against any other language but English, because that's the only one you speak. There's far more to what mod's can be done to what car's than simply PD decidding it should be done, they need to get the manufacturer's permission, for example, if Chevy say they dopn't want any turbo's on thier Vettes, then theres no turbo's on their Vette's, simple as.

The fastest and most powerful F1 car's ever, used inline 4's, GT race car's use anything from inline 4's to V12's, your talking drag racing only, sure I can accept that maybe some V8's are better suited to drag racing, but you can still get faster inline 4's than most people's V8's. Every engine has more potential for certain uses, a V8 then, will not decimate all, it's far from the best engine to use off road since a smilarly sized diesel inline 4 will produce not much less power but far, far more torque. Every engine has plusses and minuses, the most powerful and arguably greatest F1 car's of all time used inline 4's. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who won't appreciate your rice burner comment.

so why can you supercharge a vy ss but not a monaro?
i think its more they dont want certain cars having certain mods
i wasnt talking drag racing only, hence i mentioned le mans
thats endurance/power
a 4 cylinder f1 the greatest ever?
why arnt they 4's now?
and as for rice burners, what else should i call them? fuel guzzlers?
jesus christ
your just bent out of shape because what you said didnt make sense
then you had to resort to insults

 

[Dave A]

Because they don't come under the same license, there's a hell of a lot of marketing going on in GT games.

As for F1 car's not using 4 cylinders now, it's because the rules don't allow it, every year the rules change to make the car's slower for safety. Why don't F1 car's use turbo's anymore, they were a hell of a lot faster when they did? What's allowed in a race series is down to a lot of factors, look at LeMans (general where coincidentally V12's have been by far the most successful eninge in recent history), why were the chicanes put in down the Mulsanne straight, certianly not to speed the car's up. No, you don't call inline 4 engine's rice burners, rice is a derogatory term aimed at certain people and cultures, it's also slang for someone who spends a lot of money on their car for non perforamnce things ie stupid bodykit's that reduce performance, oversized mufflers that reduce performance etc. An inline 4 enigine applys to neither of thoes things, call an inline 4 engine an inline 4 engien because that's what it is.

 

[throttlehappy]

Because they don't come under the same license, there's a hell of a lot of marketing going on in GT games.

As for F1 car's not using 4 cylinders now, it's because the rules don't allow it, every year the rules change to make the car's slower for safety. Why don't F1 car's use turbo's anymore, they were a hell of a lot faster when they did? What's allowed in a race series is down to a lot of factors, look at LeMans (general where coincidentally V12's have been by far the most successful eninge in recent history), why were the chicanes put in down the Mulsanne straight, certianly not to speed the car's up. No, you don't call inline 4 engine's rice burners, rice is a derogatory term aimed at certain people and cultures, it's also slang for someone who spends a lot of money on their car for non perforamnce things ie stupid bodykit's that reduce performance, oversized mufflers that reduce performance etc. An inline 4 enigine applys to neither of thoes things, call an inline 4 engine an inline 4 engien because that's what it is.

who would want 4 cylinder f1's anyway?
certainly not me
rice is derogatory allright
but its not aimed at certain people or cultures, (im not racist by the way)
thanx for implying that
its aimed at cars
4 cylinders to be precise with mods like you mentioned, so i disagree there

 

[Dave A]

F1 teams wanted them and they built them and they had over 1500bhp and went like stink.

Riced up, ricer and all other variations of the word rice when not associated with a certain plant and food product are was a derogatory term aimed at Japanese people and thier motorbike and car cultures, not originailly to do with modifications on a car. Just because some people have started calling none Japanese people ricers and the term has largly come to be used in regards to cars and so on doesn't mean it's not going to offend some people. And I wasn't implying you were racist, I was implying you didn't know where the term originated from.

I've seen the term riced up in refference to many car's with more than 4 cylinders and less than 4 cylinders. Maybe that's how you use the term but that doesn't cover everyone and you have to remember than with different definitions of everything being all over the place, you will clash from time to time.

With regards to your comment about 4 cylinder engined car's being rice when matched with pointless mod's, you've admitted that you were wrong saying a 4 cylinder drag ca that can run the 1/4 in under 9 seconds is a rice burner .

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm not stating anything as a fact that isn't a fact.

 

[JohnBM01]

As I remember from Gran Turismo games, "there is no replacement for displacement." So there you have it, player. Only real alternative would be to make your own engines similar to the model in a regular car, only make the engine with greater displacement. But again:

"There is no replacement for displacement." - Gran Turismo series

 

[Dave A]

But the same can be said for forced induction and extra cylinders. It all depends on what angle your coming from when you tune the engine, for example, seeing 1500bhp inline 4 engined 1.5 liter F1 car's racing is certianly a different experience to seeing 850bhp V8 engined 3.5 liter F1 car's racing. Having a higher displacemnt has advantages as does having a lower one, depending on what you want to use the car for, taking everything into account. Same goes for the number of cylinders, for example a 3.0 V8 will produce less torque than a similarly tuned 3.0 inline 4. You can get just as much horsepower from a 4 cylider engine or a 8 cylinder engine, displacement and number of cyliders are huge factors in a car engine, but more isn't best for all situation just like ,l less isn't best for all situations. Also regarding higher displacement, your increasing the size and weigh of the engine thus increasing the weight of the car, and also altering the car's weight distribution amongs other aspects. There no overall right or wrong type of enigne, for road use it mainly comes down to economy and personal preference, or for racing it depends on what the rules of the event are and what type of event your in and the car your entering.

The problem with GT is that there's almost no focus on modifying you car in terms of the displacement, and most mods in the game are tailored to speciific situations.

 

[throttlehappy]

F1 teams wanted them and they built them and they had over 1500bhp and went like stink.

Riced up, ricer and all other variations of the word rice when not associated with a certain plant and food product are was a derogatory term aimed at Japanese people and thier motorbike and car cultures, not originailly to do with modifications on a car. Just because some people have started calling none Japanese people ricers and the term has largly come to be used in regards to cars and so on doesn't mean it's not going to offend some people. And I wasn't implying you were racist, I was implying you didn't know where the term originated from.

I've seen the term riced up in refference to many car's with more than 4 cylinders and less than 4 cylinders. Maybe that's how you use the term but that doesn't cover everyone and you have to remember than with different definitions of everything being all over the place, you will clash from time to time.

With regards to your comment about 4 cylinder engined car's being rice when matched with pointless mod's, you've admitted that you were wrong saying a 4 cylinder drag ca that can run the 1/4 in under 9 seconds is a rice burner .

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm not stating anything as a fact that isn't a fact.

i havent admitted anything

 

[comet_65cali]

http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/cylinderblock-part/crankshaft/index.html?en

All engines listed, besides the 4AG(Z)E can have an engine increase of 200-100ccs by stroking, not bore change.

http://www.eurospecsport.com/stroker.htm

Has Stroker Kits for Watercooled VWs, not to mention the tons of Aircooled motors you can use.

http://www.fiat500sport.com/articoli.asp?t=7&l=ENG&sku=1A99E39BAD

The Little Fiat 500 MANY engine upgrades

Any american V-8 can pretty much be stroked, no doubt about it.

But this is only the STROKE I'm talking about. People have been saying that increasing the bore of an engine would be too costly. Again, the carbon fiber monocoque, developement and actual manufacturing is more costly than having a machine shop overbore a motor, even if it means new sleeves and such.

The carbon fiber monocoque is available for ANY car that doesn't already have it. Therefore, displacement upgrades should be equally available, weither through increases in stroke OR bore.

 

[guska]

okay people, settle down, this is getting kinda out of hand don't you think? There are pros and cons to all engines. ie. if you have, say, a 1.5L four-pot, you trow a turbo on it, maybe a cam and re-map the ECU and clean up air and exhaust flows, your going to be able to run the sucker up to around 7-8,000RPM (stock) and the power/torque will be up high, as 4-bangers are DESIGNED to rev, if you take a 440ci V8, you can get the same power/torque, with less modifications (ie, retune the carby/remap the ECU, and clean up the flows), however the power/torque is going to be down low, with a sharp drop off around 4-5,000RPM (stock). This is why turbos are USUALLY (NOT always) better suited to high revving 'import' engines, and superchargers and generally better suited to V8's and V6's with larger displacement, as a matched turbo won't come on boost until the engine is starting to come on, whereas a supercharger is always giving boost.

Those turbocharged F1 cars were awesome, but not all that relevant, as the boost running through them was at insane levels, and MILLIONS of dollars went into building them, let alone developing the technology.

Neither can Drag racing really be used as ammunition, as drag racing engines are very rarely built for long term reliablility, a drag racing team thinks themselves lucky if they get an hours worth of running out of an engine, because they are stressed right to the limits.

Sorry, a bit long winded, but I had this all running through my head, and it had to come out somewhere!

 

[Dave A]

i havent admitted anything

In post 18 you called a 4 cylinder drag car that could go as fast as a 9 second V8 one was a rice burner, then in post 22 you said agreed that rice referred to a car with an inline 4 engine and non performance enhhancing mod's, so that's either admitting your post 18 comment is inaccurate ie wrong, or it's a continuity **** up in your viewpoint of what a rice burner is, since a 9 second drag racers mods are hardly, non performance enhancing.

I don't mind you liking V8 engines more than anytinhg else, but say you like them more than anything else, they have pro's, they have con's, they can be better for a certain situation or they can be worse etc.

 

[235RX-7GT-C]

I am a V8 muscle car person, and almost every tuned V8 motor I have seen has been bored .030mm over. Yes, many of those cars on GT4 already have the biggest possible motor available and cannot be tuned like that. But there are several that should have the displacement upgrade. And when I see the skyline tuned It upsets me (Then again I love Skylines). I am not going to cry or fight if GT5 does not have that option, Instead I'll just know the truth about a 350's full potential.