"Engineering" Cars

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, I think it's time I come clear as to what I mean by "engineering" a car. Now I'm going to set up a scenario. Two owners of two different Toyota Altezzas/Lexus IS300s. One person modified it to be an attention-grabbing, wild machine. The other owner modified it in shop and is a street-legal race car that can dominate most road courses in the state/province/nation. One owner decked the machine out with speakers, short shift, and gets a touring car wing for the rear of his/her Altezza/IS300. The other has carefully considered the horsepower, top speed, and aerodynamics of the car and decided how to help the downforce the car gets in the wind.

Basically, the second person is the one that "engineers" the car. I guess you can say that when I say "engineering" the car, I'm saying that a machine has been modified and tuned for perfection and is quite functional. A lot of people think that a carbon fiber hood and carbon fiber rear wing are all the rage in making cars better. Kind of think of the difference between a show car for the street versus a tuned-up pure racing machine. Consider types like Rod and Steve Millen, RE Amemiya, the late John Lingenfelter, and such. I decided to open this thread to discuss how people can modify their cars to be performance machines without it being considered "rice" or even "show car." So, here's your chance to talk about how to modify cars to make them WORK, or in my terminology, to "engineer" a car.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Carbon fiber does make a car better, ricers do it because big name tuners do it. Big name tuners do it because they can afford it and it saves weight not to mention it looks good when used in good taste. The R34 Vspec II comes with a factory carbon fiber hood that has been painted over. as well as lighter body panels etc. to save weight.

Speaking of weight it seems to be a big issue, using that super light racing glass saves weight and so do racing seats, you don't necesarily have to have bright red sparcos, something black that wont attract as mutch attention. Carbon fiber body panels that are painted over etc.

However the biggest part comes under the hood. Who cares what it looks like, The only time I ever lift the hood is to check the engine, so who cares about all those chromed parts, Just concentrate on how you want your car to perform, your the only one who needs to like it. Then of course there is suspension tuning etc... each user has his or her own views of how his car should be tuned, now if only we all had the money.....

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya!


I feel that I have the same taste as SkylineGTR Guy! It's like one of those thing I think of when I read his thread. its like: Who cares how your car looks? Who cares if it HAVE to look like show cars in car shows or ones from 2fast2furious? The only one who should care about the car is THE OWNER OF THE CAR HIM/HERSELF!

Now anyways.. What I would classify as an "Engineered" car are cars that are raced professionally Cars that were made by a team or teams to compete in races such as LeMans, JGTC, NASCAR, etc... The way the car was built and the purpose is what I believe will make the car wut it is. Show cars these days are looked at with having Exotic looking colors, fancy looking racing seats, fancy looking console deck, tuned engine etc. Engineered car in my consideration and maybe toward alot or some, are cars that WERE made to perform, not to be a one of those car that will win show car contest or body kit contest like how Veilside wins alot! These cars are not made to be eye catchers with all those fancy looking things. They were built for performance without caring of how the public may view the car as being ugly or not good looking compared to the show cars. They were built to win and win and win Its a waste of money for these cars to be built to be so fancy in the inside and the outside when the money is more useful for doing things to help the car win! That is why I would say Lemans, JGTC, NASCAR etc. is wut I consider Engineered cars, because they were engineered to win on performance, not to win a BEAUTY CONTEST!

 

[Event]

Carbon fiber does make a car better, ricers do it because big name tuners do it. Big name tuners do it because they can afford it and it saves weight not to mention it looks good when used in good taste. THe R34 Vspec II comes with a factory carbon fiber hood that has been painted over. as well as lighter body panels etc. to save weight.

I think that when ricers add the carbon-fiber hood, they think that it will make you car perform like a BMW M3. This isn't true. It may save some weight, but you need to do something to the engine for it to really fly. Just adding a carbon-fiber hood is not considered engineering. I think that enginnering can't just be bolt on parts. They need to help the car, which can't be done with just bolt on parts. Adding a turbocharger or supercharger takes time. This greatly affects the performance of the car and since it took time and effort to do, it is considered engineering, IMO. Any idiot with a wrench could put on a carbon-fiber hood or wing. It takes someone who knows a thing or two about engines to install a supercharger.

That is why I would say Lemans, JGTC, NASCAR etc. is wut I consider Engineered cars, because they were engineered to win on performance, not to win a BEAUTY CONTEST!

I disagree with two things you said here. Nascar cars are basically just an engine and tranny under a paper-thin fiberglass shell. All of them look the same and built to the same specifications. Not too much time and effort is spent on aerodynamics. I would not really consider that "engineering." It is more so than putting on a turbocharger, but all of the NASCAR teams do the same thing. With Le Mans cars, hundreds of hours are spent in the windtunnel on each car. The engineers, nay geniuses who work on these cars strive towards perfection. Each Le Mans car is different and special and are the pinnacle of car design. These cars are truely engineering feats.

 

[skip0110]

Nascar cars are basically just an engine and tranny under a paper-thin fiberglass shell. All of them look the same and built to the same specifications. Not too much time and effort is spent on aerodynamics. I would not really consider that "engineering." It is more so than putting on a turbocharger, but all of the NASCAR teams do the same thing. With Le Mans cars, hundreds of hours are spent in the windtunnel on each car. The engineers, nay geniuses who work on these cars strive towards perfection. Each Le Mans car is different and special and are the pinnacle of car design. These cars are truely engineering feats.

Although NASCAR cars/engines all fall within a very small range of differentiation, still many man-hours are spent optimizing the few factors that ar controllable by the teams (such as suspension tuning).

Also, I believe that all the bodies are not the same, but must instead fit within (tight) parameters to make them all about equally competitive.

Similarly, Ford/Dodge/Chevy (and now Toyota) all are pushrod V8 with about 350 cu in displacement, but they differ significantly in internal dimensions and design (such as oiling).

 

[ExigeEvan]

this is just one quick thing before I start,

Speaking of weight it seems to be a big issue, using that super light racing glass saves weight

Do you mean plastic?


Enginering to me means actually getting your hands dirty. Working on the engine, and I don't mean chroming it, by putting a supercharger in (I prefer them to turbo's) but that also means changing the gearing and maybe even the tyres.

Yes a carbon fibre hood can make a difference, but when you lose wait on your car, you will need to change the suspension and such..and if there is a greater weight loss you may need, again, to change the gearing.

 

[1X83Z]

One owner decked the machine out with speakers, short shift, and gets a touring car wing for the rear of his/her Altezza/IS300.

Her? There isn't a woman on Earth who owns an IS300 (except Rob), and even less who would get speakers, a short shift, and a touring wing for it.

 

[Joey D]

To engineer a automobile means to design it, build it, change it to make it work. Slapping some go fast bolt ons isn't engineering. Thats just taking something thats been engineered and making it the way you want it to be.

I know about engineering, thats what I do for a livinig. I design parts and see if they fit. I work at General Motors on the Colorado program. Now that is poorly engineered.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I think that when ricers add the carbon-fiber hood, they think that it will make you car perform like a BMW M3. This isn't true. It may save some weight, but you need to do something to the engine for it to really fly. Just adding a carbon-fiber hood is not considered engineering. I think that enginnering can't just be bolt on parts. They need to help the car, which can't be done with just bolt on parts. Adding a turbocharger or supercharger takes time. This greatly affects the performance of the car and since it took time and effort to do, it is considered engineering, IMO. Any idiot with a wrench could put on a carbon-fiber hood or wing. It takes someone who knows a thing or two about engines to install a supercharger.

I disagree, if you are truly going to engineer a car, you will take EVERY aspect into concideration no matter how small, if using a cf hood makes you 11 lbs lighter than the competition then however small, you still have an advatage, now keep lightening the car and you will have an even greater advantage. The lighter the car the less stress the engine is under and the greater it can perform, taking smallest things, like replacing the hood, into concideration is what really makes it engineering. The devil is in the details. I consider many superchargers to be bolt on they are not very hard to install if you have thr right tools and enough time, it's not like your having to custom fabricate it or something. How you do it is just as important as what you do.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

this is just one quick thing before I start,

Do you mean plastic?

Yeah that, I think it's called lexan plastic.

Yes a carbon fibre hood can make a difference, but when you lose wait on your car, you will need to change the suspension and such..and if there is a greater weight loss you may need, again, to change the gearing.

All part of the fun! Thats the second part of engineering, you never ever really are done, there is always somethign to improve, always somethign that can be done to push the limits.

 

[JohnBM01]

Skyline, kind of where I was going with this topic is on "going for performance" rather than Blazin's engineering of the Colorado, as he claimed. But you have the right idea, my GT-R buddy.

In the future, I'll look for my magazine on the HKS Altezza built to run Altezza. $300,000 down the drain to rule Japan's ultimate proving ground- Tsukuba. Give me a moment while I have this smooth jazz music going, alright? Okay. So on the subject of tuning to perfection, how do you explain the Falken Skyline that races Nurburgring Nords (too bad it placed 53rd from 3rd place last year)? To me, everything on the car had to be carefully considered when taking on the long and even bumpy Nurburgring Nordschliefe. So your "show car for the road" would not last very long there. The Skyline is a proven Japanese sports car. So out the box, it's basically a performer. But like any car, it can always be better. Like I heard in "Initial D" once:

"The R32 has a weakness...heavy weight..." - "Initial D"

So if I were to tune to perfection (or as I used, "engineering" the car), the first thing I would modify is the weight and maybe its downforce. If I do that well, I'd have a formidable GT-R. I'd basically to visuals second to performance. Visuals are there to customize a normal car to be YOUR car. Later on, I'll talk about a car tuned for looks, the other for racing perfection. Let's continue the discussion.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Skyline, kind of where I was going with this topic is on "going for performance" rather than Blazin's engineering of the Colorado, as he claimed. But you have the right idea, my GT-R buddy.

In the future, I'll look for my magazine on the HKS Altezza built to run Altezza. $300,000 down the drain to rule Japan's ultimate proving ground- Tsukuba. Give me a moment while I have this smooth jazz music going, alright? Okay. So on the subject of tuning to perfection, how do you explain the Falken Skyline that races Nurburgring Nords (too bad it placed 53rd from 3rd place last year)? To me, everything on the car had to be carefully considered when taking on the long and even bumpy Nurburgring Nordschliefe. So your "show car for the road" would not last very long there. The Skyline is a proven Japanese sports car. So out the box, it's basically a performer. But like any car, it can always be better. Like I heard in "Initial D" once:

"The R32 has a weakness...heavy weight..." - "Initial D"

So if I were to tune to perfection (or as I used, "engineering" the car), the first thing I would modify is the weight and maybe its downforce. If I do that well, I'd have a formidable GT-R. I'd basically to visuals second to performance. Visuals are there to customize a normal car to be YOUR car. Later on, I'll talk about a car tuned for looks, the other for racing perfection. Let's continue the discussion.

The R32 is heavy and so are skylines in general, that is why the R34 adopted such measures as aluminum body panels, carbon fiber hood etc. Even with that it's still a heavy car. Speaking of engineering and GTR's that is one of the critical issues that needs to be addressed in the next GTR, weight. Nissan is looking at using electric motors (similar to toyotas volta concept and the system on the nissan march) which are lighter than the current atessa system. There are also talks of an electric turbine attached to the turbos that will keep them spinning, eliminating lag. Also use of in cylinder injection and even talk of an 8 speed automatic gearbox going around. With the porsche 911 named as its main competitor, I'm sure the next GTR will have quite a few engineering feats up its sleeve. The ATTESA system in previous GT-R's used a 16 bit microprocessor to monitor the car's movements at 100 times per second, with sensors recording wheel rotation plus lateral and longitudinal acceleration. When one wheel slipped, it simply diverted more torque to the wheels with grip. The next GTR is supposed to have an upgraded version, perhaps with a 32 bit processor. In conjunction with its super HICAS 4WS system, the skyline was and in some cases still is way ahead of it's time. I can't wait to see what nissan has for us next!

 

[Joey D]

Do you have any clue what engineering is? Its to make everything work together, no matter what it is. Everything from the intake manifold to the cup holders. They all must work together.

You are talking about tuning, which is completly different. You don't engineer a racecar...well I shouldn't say that cause some Le Mans cars are designed from the ground up, but like the Altezza you talked about, thats taking an already exsisting car and building upon it, the car has already been engineered.

And claimed to work on the Colorado program? What you think I would lie about working one the world worst truck?

 

[Cano]

these are RE-engineered vehicles with something in common: they are home-brewed cars. they weren't produced in racing facilities or a pro-shop, yet they operate far better than many cars built in that kinda places. hell, the AMX owner painted it on top of 4 barrels. he put on ABS, cruise control, and a system for the exhaust to be quieter when he needed it. The GTO owner made his very own carbon fiber intake manifold, for god's sake! in his effing backyard! yeah, i like to see pro cars and that stuff, but this kind of things really hit my nail. pure, absolute ingenuity and working with what you know. No freaking strange hands touching the car, I can do it, thanks.

Cano

EDIT: DUH! I might as well post the link.
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/81038/index5.html