Establishing an Overall Respect of Automobiles

[JohnBM01]

This will be my first thread of the new year. Yes. This is it. 2005. Dos mil cinco. You dig? Good. So let's go to work.

GTPlanet, I kind of consider myself as being pretty concerned and curious about things. In so, I have a certain situation. Some of you may remember a topic I did called "Rate Yourself As an Automotive Enthusiast." That thread was for me to communicate with the general public about their love of cars. I have my favorite cars and my least favorite cars. I'm turned on about a Ferrari F50 or even the alluring McLaren-Mercedes SLR as much as I can be turned on about a Mini Cooper or a Ford Ka. I'm also turned on about an AC or Shelby Cobra as much as a Honda CRX. I've grown to love cars in general. Now sure, I love high-dollar, all-out supercars. An American V8 humming down the road is pretty sick as well. A wild compact still becomes a head-turner to me. I just think that I've grown fond of cars in general based on learning to respect automobiles overall regardless of horsepower and performance. I'm not saying I'm the ideal car lover, but I feel that a car is a car is a car.

So the main point of this is, how do you gain an overall respect of cars? Being into Ferrari, Porsche, and Lamborghini is all fine and dandy, but if you wanted to teach someone to respect even a Mini Cooper or a Daihatsu Midget D-Type as much as respecting a super car or a muscle car, how would you do it? If you want to mold someone into an automotive enthusiast, how do you make it happen? Well, go for it, GTPlanet.

 

[neanderthal]

i think a true enthusiast is an enthusiast of cars; regardless of the brand and scarcity.
everybody likes ferraris and porsches and so on, most of us cant afford them. but to appreciate a citroen DS21 or vw beetle which are neither rare, fancy, fast or anything special, requires an acknowlegement of the place the car holds in the annals of automotive history. that is true auto appreciation.

of course, i also think that calling a spade a spade is part of it, especially when said garden implement is from one of those rarified companies whose products the hoi polloi cant afford. the ferrari enzo may be a fantatically fast piece of kit, but its also fantastically ugly.

 

[Quick_Nick]

I think a driving enthusiast judges cars based on things like horsepower, handling & overall performance while a car enthusiast judges cars for things like styling, appeal & historical significance. I think I'm slightly more of a driving enthusiast, but I still appreciate cars for reasons besides just performance.

 

[MistaX]

All Enthusiast means is Someone that's into a perticular thing.
You can't say that if someone hates one company, they arn't an enthusiast, or even a hardcore enthusiast.

No one loves every single car. Don't bother saying that. Theres always something that'll bother you. For me, that would be Rice. Now, I love Japanese cars, I'm getting a Japanese car, it's nothing on the country. What it is, is the people. The people that'll spend $300 on a muffler tip that'll lower their HP, compaired to spending that $300 on something worth it, like cams, or any other product actually worth buying. Wings, Bodykits, Rims. Those parts should be on cars that need them. Not on stock compacts. I don't mind seeing a car like a Silvia S15 with a Bodykit or a Wing, when the car is pushing 400rwhp. That proves that the person that owns that car, actually knows what hes doing with that car.

So, does that mean I'm not an enthusiast? Or does that make me true to the word.

On top of this, I have respect for cars built for a reason. The new Bently's, Hummer H2s, and cars like that, have no reason for being on the road at all. Being built by money-hungry companies in it for the buck. I've never heard the words "Driving this is alot of fun" from anyone who bought those cars. But what I have heard is "Bling Bling" Woo!
They're made for people who know nothing of what "Driving Pleasure" is at all.
And worse, is the people that own them, screw them up further. 24 inch rims on a H2 that cost $7000 per rim? Are you trying to prove something?
Start driving a real car, worth the money.

 

[Ev0]

On top of this, I have respect for cars built for a reason. The new Bently's, Hummer H2s, and cars like that, have no reason for being on the road at all. Being built by money-hungry companies in it for the buck. I've never heard the words "Driving this is alot of fun" from anyone who bought those cars. But what I have heard is "Bling Bling" Woo!
They're made for people who know nothing of what "Driving Pleasure" is at all.
And worse, is the people that own them, screw them up further. 24 inch rims on a H2 that cost $7000 per rim? Are you trying to prove something?
Start driving a real car, worth the money.

Couldn't agree more. I hate these useless vehicles that are just basically built to show off some poser's wealth. I can respect a Rolls Royce, because it is the pinnacle of automotive luxury, but cars like the Escalade, or the H2 are completely useless. They are not good to drive, they are useless off road, and you could easily get more luxurious cars for the same price of either one.

That being said, I know I can only appreciate cars that have good qualities. I respect a very broad range of cars, all thge way from your Saleen S7s with their blinding speed, all the way down to the Toyota Corolla, which provides affordable and reliable transportation for millions. It's easy in theory for a car to gain my respect, all a car needs is at least one good quality.

 

[JNasty4G63]

The new Bently's, Hummer H2s, and cars like that, have no reason for being on the road at all......They're made for people who know nothing of what "Driving Pleasure" is at all.

You have to understand though, that not every person has the same view on "driving pleasure" as you. What about a Camry, Taurus, or Accord??? Those are just built as nice daily transportation for people. For someone who enjoys speed and handling, those are very boring. But, for someone who enjoys having a nice, reliable, anc comfortable car, those cars give them "driving pleasure" in spades. The same goes for the Bentleys, Rollers, and Maybachs out there. They just have a different customer in mind. Those cars are for your corporate CEOs and big wigs of the like. They want a car to be driven in when going to meetings and things like that. If they have the means to spend $300k on a car, so be it. I probably would as well if I had the cash.

Same goes for the Escalades, H2s, and Range Rovers you see out there with the, as you kids call it, "Bling Bling" everywhere. So what if they have that stuff??? I understand that its your opinion, and I'm not saying change that. But, if someone has the money to spend on their car, and they choose 24" spinners, so be it. That is "driving pleasure" to them. Not all driving pleasure is about speed and handling. I wouldn't want big spinners on my Range, if I had one, but that doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't enjoy it. Thats my point. There are many varied opinions on what "driving pleasure" is. Some people like looks, some like comfort, some speed. Its just a personal choice.

Hilg

 

[Joey D]

I'm not really an automotive enthusiast, I'm more just an enthusiast of one type of automobile. I know for a fact that I could be classified as a mini truckin' enthusiast, there isn't to many mini's that I don't respect. Whether it be a Toyota or a Chevy. And even if I don't think the owner did something that looks good, I can still respect the work he or she did to their ride.

I don't really think anyone can be a true auto enthusiast just because there will always be a car you dislike or a type of car you don't like. Me I down right hate the boxy things coming from Japan right now (alla the Element and Scion). Actually I pretty much dislike most of the new designs coming out of anywhere right now.

But on to the "blinb bling" thing. I personally hate rims that don't fit the car. Whether it be a Escalade with 26's or a Civic with 19's. It looks rediculous. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of rims combos that look good. 20's on a Escalade go nicely and throw some 16's or 17's on a Civic and it will look good.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

Sometimes I hate myself whenever I think of the cars I respect. Just when I thought I enjoy "automobiles" and now come across cars that I just.... dislike. I mostly give respect to cars that have a strong reputation around the world. Not popularity, its all about performance, records and intimidation! Cars such as the Supra, Skyline, Corvette have made big impacts from their own country to the entire world!!! When people see those reputational cars, they just can't help but to look at it and say to themselves "Thats a fast CAR!" Its even the name that also gives it respect, but test and competition comes first before the name gets respect BTW.

For example, like if I was to ask someone what car they drive, and they say "I drive a C5 Z06 babe! 👍" I would be amazed by his answer! C5 Z06 is an incredible car and I really just can't help but to think about how fast I can take it around the city. If someone was to say "I drive a Geo Metro." I uhhh......"okay"
Well, I know you all get my point about how the reputation of the name can attract your attention for respect!

I really just love those reputational performance car that would turn heads just because...well..THEY KICK BOOTY!!!! But I also give respect to those car that make its way out of the regular cars to justify why its better than the rest. I give that to the Camry! For so long, I am being told that the Camry is the best car for anyone because it can move, transport and run into no problems until a loooooong time!

Overall, I really believe that the general public usually establish respect for automobiles because it makes our lives easier and funner. But nowadays, automobiles are very obvious for transportation. Some people now try to find ways to have more fun than just cruising around. THEY WANT SPEED AND POWER AND HANDLING! From this aspect of wanting more power, speed and handling...The respect for automobiles is recycled and used again to create more fun and kick in the booty!

 

[JohnBM01]

There are cars I don't really like, and it's okay for me to say so. I don't think I'm a perfect enthusiast. Like this past Sunday, I was watching MotorWeek. The feature was on a Honda Accord Hybrid. Maybe it's America, but you're not going to impress a GM or Ford lover with a name like Honda. Surely, you HAVE to mention Honda when it comes to motorcycles, but the reason why I have full respect for Honda is that they usually are a step ahead of everyone else in design and such. Honda made everything from its own cute, functional robot ASIMO (Advanced Step in Innovative MObility), generators, motorcycles, and such. The Honda Accord Hybrid packs about 15 more horsepower than the standard 240. And people normally say that hybrids are crap, and I don't blame some people. At least this company is looking to perhaps change the minds of performance-minded people about hybrids. You don't have to plug this car in all the time to run it. So, it was a pretty cool deal.

Actually, this thread came about in a conversation McLaren'sAngel and I were talking about. She's really into the supercar and sports car deal, and I kind of wanted to talk about what it would take to have someone into supercars and sports cars to kind of know more about other automobiles, in addition to the sports and supercars. This isn't all about McLaren, instead, it's about ANYONE who doesn't seem to have overall respect for automobiles. I didn't really like Daihatsus, but I respected them because they prove that small cars and trucks can still be very functional and very livable. If you look online for Daihatsu, they have a small van called the Tanto which is every bit as functional as bigger-size vans. Maybe all this is just me, but I like to think about machines as more than just "Point A to Point B." I admire purpose as much as anything.

 

[Blake]

I don't think an overall respect for automobiles means you have to like every car. Just that you must realise why each car was designed and built and appreciate that it has fullfilled the designers purpose, assuming it has.

It also depends how you interpret it, I would see someone cruising around in a Ford Ka and it really wouldn't make me look twice, but, like McLarens Angel, if I saw someone driving a Corvette Z06 I would look twice, it's cars like that that generate a sort of fear and respect, you see something like that and you know that it bites!

It really depends on how you view respect, either way I don't think it makes you any more or less of an Automobile enthusiast.

 

[stumpydino]

while generating an overall respect of cars is good, you must still develop an opinion about cars, plus you dont really understand cars fully until you learn to drive

 

[inferno]

Although I consider myself a general car guy or "car enthusiast" I realy think it's the performance that draws me to cars. As a kid I remember trying to put a finger on just what had caused the automobile to become such an intigral part of my life. (I once acidentaly recited the alphebet "TUV,WRX,YandZ") It seemed to me that the attraction was the power that being straped in a 2000 lb hunk of steel gave to me. The things I could do with it. The ability to go faster than I could posibly imagine, the ability to cover distance so quickly. the precision and raw power roled all into one that in the right hands could do amazing things. I wanted to be those hands. I'm not talking about supercars here, just ordinairy economy cars. Anything with a manual transmission and 120 hp is capable of so much in the grand sceme of things. I mean, what animal can you name that can outrun a Trueno? let alone a human. The power in that is intoxicating. I find myself not limited to any certain type of vehicle. I like basicaly anything with four wheels and a motor. Even electric motors. Weather it's a 1200 hp diablo or an RC car from radioshack they all have their own level of performance. And I can appreciate that. I have an RC CLK touring car that cant break the rear end free in a corner and a skyline in GT3 that can do a sixth gear four wheel burnout. The point is, just the same as I run endless hot laps in my skyline, if I had a track for my CLK I'd be doing the same thing, constantly trying to better my times. It dosent matter wether it's famous, or "fast" It's still a car. It's still an extention of me, A precision (or in some cases not so precision) piece of equipment designed for the purpose of carving apexes. If your a car guy, and a geo metro is all you can aford, a track day in that said car will still be the absolute best day of your life. I promise.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

Although I consider myself a general car guy or "car enthusiast" I realy think it's the performance that draws me to cars. As a kid I remember trying to put a finger on just what had caused the automobile to become such an intigral part of my life. (I once acidentaly recited the alphebet "TUV,WRX,YandZ") .

dude, ever since I got in to motorsport, that has ****ed me up every time. i'm not sure if i still know the alphabet right.
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ? Something juts doesn't look right on it...



I find that to respect a car, it must have been built with soul. Toyota's are built with soul. BMW's are built with soul. Porsche's used to be built with soul...althought they're getting a bit better at it now. Lamborghini's and Volkswagen's are built with soul. Chevrolets/GM's and Dodge/Chryslers...anyway...In order for me to totally respect a car, it is usually

-blisteringly fast
-built with high quality materials and/or assembled to kick Father Time's ass
-have amazing handling (ala 2003 S2000 or Murciélago Roadster)
-company is not cash-crazy (unlike GM/Porsche/Dodge-Chrysler)

In general, I don't like American cars. I don't like people who are obsessed with Nos, who don't even know what NX or Zex is; I don't like seeing people cover a car in plastic, lights, spoilers and rims and then put a bottle of nitrous in the back and then walk around acting like they own everything. My mom's friend who owned some oldass Saab had nitrous in it and a T-28 turbo (i think that was the type), but that was just to get it up hills! Anyway, I have great respect for BMW, Toyota, Ford, and Subaru. Why? Because generally they are very (if not extremely) reliable, aren't cash hungry companies looking to get buyers with cheap incentives, they tend to use higher quality materials, and they are less prone to suddenly start falling apart 10 years later. These companies offer cars that are of top quality, which is what I like. Bugatti, offers stunning technology with amazing top speed and acceleration, and is built like a tank. Although the are having problems with the Veyron (i don't tihnk anyone else would be able to pull it off, Bugatti tries to fix the stability problem, Chevrolet would have said "**** it, im hungry, lets just sell the damn thing and get a bite to eat."), the Eb110 and the EB110S/EB110SS as it was later known, is a truly amazing car. It has a top speed of 221mph and does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. It is AWD (36% to the front, 64% rear), it has four IHI Turbos (supplied by a Japanese company at that!), and 4 catalytic converters for as little environmental impact as possible. Argh. This is a tough subject, as I can't really pinpoint what it is that makes me give a car respect. Both the Subaru Impreza WRX STi and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 are amazing cars, and are nearly neck and neck, but I have about 0.001% slightly more respect for the STi, simply because of the Boxer engine and the styling (except for the 2001's, those were just fugly) . I don't mind honda either though, but that's only because it makes a fairly reliable car with fairly good mileage and fairly good handling- but with absolutely endless tuning opportunities. I could go on with this forever, but I think that in order for a car to earn respect they should be individual, modern, and pure.

 

[1X83Z]

I don't think an overall respect for automobiles means you have to like every car. Just that you must realise why each car was designed and built

Well then mark me down as having no overall respect for automobiles, because I can't for the life of me figure this one out:

I've well covered my thoughts on the Toyota Prius and have been met with some argument based on those viewpoints - but the above vehicle is unquestionably awful and I can't think of a new car that serves less of a purpose than that trash. ConsumerGuide gave it the most biting review of a product I've ever heard from a non-product-based magazine:

"Prices may seem attractive, but XL-7 is no bargain given its subpar refinement, labored acceleration, stiff, nervous ride, poor handling, and antiquated 4WD system. Basically, it's a mediocre compact SUV stretched to become a mediocre midsize SUV, with a cramped, optional 3rd-row seat of questionable usefulness its sole asset."

Usually they give pros and cons and the like, but here I can't find a single pro, save for the mention of the third-row seat which is surrounded by three cons - cramped, optional, and questionable usefulness. In fact, they take apart nearly every single thing about the vehicle - ride, acceleration, refinement, handling, 4WD, and its major selling point, its 3rd-row seat.

Just thought I could take an opportunity to go off on the Suzuki XL-7...

 

[Joey D]

-company is not cash-crazy (unlike GM/Porsche/Dodge-Chrysler)

News Flash: All car companies are in it for the cash, not just American car companies and the random German one you through in there. Why would start a business not for cash?

I like. Bugatti, offers stunning technology with amazing top speed and acceleration, and is built like a tank. Although the are having problems with the Veyron (i don't tihnk anyone else would be able to pull it off, Bugatti tries to fix the stability problem, Chevrolet would have said "**** it, im hungry, lets just sell the damn thing and get a bite to eat."),

First off Chevy wouldn't attempt anything like that, when was the last Chevy super car you saw rolling around? I can't seem to think of any, and don't say the Corvette. Chevy builds an average mans car, the Impala is about the most generic thing you can buy. It really irrates me when you get these American cars suck people that don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.

I dislike Japanese cars but does that mean I disrespect them? No not at all. Every company has their niche.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

News Flash: All car companies are in it for the cash, not just American car companies and the random German one you through in there. Why would start a business not for cash?



First off Chevy wouldn't attempt anything like that, when was the last Chevy super car you saw rolling around? I can't seem to think of any, and don't say the Corvette. Chevy builds an average mans car, the Impala is about the most generic thing you can buy. It really irrates me when you get these American cars suck people that don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.

I dislike Japanese cars but does that mean I disrespect them? No not at all. Every company has their niche.

So a $60,000.00 C6 Z06 is an everyman's car, huh? And 0-60 in under 4 seconds isn't super car? Is because it's not mid engined? Boxer? covered in carbon fibre? That car is pretty much as much of a supercar as a viper.

And of course all car companies are in it for cash, especially Ford in the '60's. Practically the only thing they were concerned about was churning out as many vehicles as the factories could handle. I'm not saying Porsche is exactly like that, but in the recent past years they've certainly turned their priorities.

As for the Suzuki XL-7....what did you expect?

 

[1X83Z]

So a $60,000.00 C6 Z06 is an everyman's car, huh? And 0-60 in under 4 seconds isn't super car? Is because it's not mid engined? Boxer? covered in carbon fibre? That car is pretty much as much of a supercar as a viper.

It's a lot cheaper though.

As for the Suzuki XL-7....what did you expect?

Their other models are a lot better. Vitara's average, but XL-7 is awful.

 

[JohnBM01]

So Blazin, you said that all car companies have their niche. You don't like Japanese cars, but if you had to identify a niche that Japanese car companies provide, what do you think that niche would be? Practicality? Performance? Affordability? What do you think?

 

[Joey D]

I think Japan is great at making cheap fuel efficent cars. Hell I don't think I would ever buy an American compact car, well save maybe a Neon SRT-4 but thats not really a compact. Japanese cars are far more fuel efficent in the compact class, if I had to drive long distances everyday and really didn't care about stylin I think a Civic would be a great car.

Also Japan has seem to have figured out the hybrid thing, I would never buy one but I still think they are the ones who have been albe to do it the best.

That is the niche I think they have.

 

[Blake]

Well then mark me down as having no overall respect for automobiles, because I can't for the life of me figure this one out:

I've well covered my thoughts on the Toyota Prius and have been met with some argument based on those viewpoints - but the above vehicle is unquestionably awful and I can't think of a new car that serves less of a purpose than that trash. ConsumerGuide gave it the most biting review of a product I've ever heard from a non-product-based magazine:

"Prices may seem attractive, but XL-7 is no bargain given its subpar refinement, labored acceleration, stiff, nervous ride, poor handling, and antiquated 4WD system. Basically, it's a mediocre compact SUV stretched to become a mediocre midsize SUV, with a cramped, optional 3rd-row seat of questionable usefulness its sole asset."

Usually they give pros and cons and the like, but here I can't find a single pro, save for the mention of the third-row seat which is surrounded by three cons - cramped, optional, and questionable usefulness. In fact, they take apart nearly every single thing about the vehicle - ride, acceleration, refinement, handling, 4WD, and its major selling point, its 3rd-row seat.

Just thought I could take an opportunity to go off on the Suzuki XL-7...

I also said

appreciate that it has fullfilled the designers purpose, assuming it has

From what I can gather that car has hardly fullfilled the designers purpose...and if it has then eeeeekk!

 

[1X83Z]

I also saidFrom what I can gather that car has hardly fullfilled the designers purpose...and if it has then eeeeekk!

I'm fairly sure the designers' purpose was to create the cheapest vehicle on the market with three rows of seats. They've done this, but have unfortunately compromised every other aspect of the vehicle, the third row included. Eeeeekk indeed.