Expanding driving ability

[SigmaViper11]

Short Read-
A city or the ability to create custom obstacle courses isn't so bad because it allows people to expand on their driving ability by dealing with scenarios that aren't as common on a race track as well as for finding better means of dealing with certain scenarios on the track, or even as simple as increasing the knowledge of how a machine will likely behave in a given situation. It also provides people with a greater room for experimentation that a race track may not be able to accommodate for.

(I left the long read for those who still feel the need to read the original idea, though its not necessary.)

Long Read -
Now, ok. I did a search about the whole free roaming city thing. . . Problem is. . . none of those threads seem to address something. . . (mods: if you guys feel this thread is pointless or some misguided copy please point me in the right direction.)

An open world, b it a city or a large parking lot gives you a few things. . . A large customizable parking lot would be quite nice, make drift courses obstacle courses or what have you. A city has traffic, pot holes, different types of road wear an tear, alley ways so on and so forth. Honestly I don't see why either would b such a bad thing. I think they would both increase driving skill. A race track for the most part is a rather controlled environment. There is a basic line across the track that most will stay close to. With the exception of wrecks and lap traffic or the occasional loose part, not much happens/ Not including your car's misbehavior or your lack of controlling it.

An obstacle course allows you to make things more erratic. truly challenge yourself in a manner that a race course wouldn't. Now, sure there's a lot you can do on a race track. . . race, drift, and some stunt driving. . . but it feels kind of limited in that manner. Now, don't go off on me because I'm talking about stunt driving. I don't mean like crazy movie flying cars and stuff like that. But I mean, say sliding your car into a parking space, drifting through an intersection and into a narrow alley or tagging cones with the back bumper of your car (which I admit is made available in some courses of Gt5 but the setup seems a bit strict.)

My point being, yes, this is a racing simulator. But not all of race driving involves purely race driving. i would imagine aspects from each thing might play in. Again, something like an obstacle course could teach you how to make your movements more precise, putting your car where you want on a tighter scale. A city gives you the more variable, traffic and road conditions that can be sudden or surprising. teach you how to deal with a pot hole at 160mph.

I'm just saying there are other opportunities that PD can pursue that would be beneficial and that people shouldn't just discount them because it seems pointless, or the online with that function will be horrible.

Ok, you complain PD sorts out the bugs from your complaints. Others generate ideas, and hopefully PD takes notice and at some point in our lifetimes implement it if it becomes popular enough. So on and so forth. So I don't see why a city or obstacle course or what have you is such a bad idea.

For those who worry about pursuits happening constantly with the city aspect. . . yea, ok. A. you don't have to stay on that server, and B. Even from a racing perspective there's bound to be something to learn from whats effectively a police pursuit. Just saying, its not so much about a city that I'm talking about as much as just opportunities to expand our driving ability. Maybe open License tests after you complete them to be driven "for fun" with your personal vehicles. Anyway that's what I felt the need to express.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I like your idea, but I think something of this scale cannot be done on this generation of consoles, let alone computers.

It would be nice to know what to do if I ever do encounter a pothole at 160 mph (If it was at a track, then wow maintenance is not doing their job, if it was on public roads then why in the hell am I doing 160?)

If it were to be implemented in future GTs, I can see a lot of my time in this free-roam mode or something similar.

And not to be an ass, but double spacing might help that essay of yours.

 

[SigmaViper11]

Yea, i think we've got at least a full generation of waiting. . . And no you're not an ass, I just didn't think of it. I actually didn't realize I could. . . Maybe its cuz I'm tired, but i can't figure this out. . .I'm feeling very stupid too.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Haha don't worry about it. If GT had such a mode, and pulled it off, I can see Forza trying to do the same.

Though you can say GT copied the idea from NFS (then again ideas have been copied since the beginning of time, especially in gaming I.E. FPSs.).

Now if you excuse me, I have some seasonal events to overpower.

 

[Menown]

You might want to edit the wall of text, it's going to put people off reading it.

See how sumbrownkid keeps his post in nice bite sized sections? Do that, you will get many more replies.

I think your idea has a lot of merits and I would like to see some discussion on it, but that wall of text is tl;dr for a lot of people

 

[coop500]

I think this would be great!

I remeber the old NFS Porsche Unleashed has a similar free roam option. No where near as advanced though! This free roam city would need to have some b road or country roads!

 

[badger_mk2]

GT: MMO.

Also a PC could do it, and wee still got a fair few years to go for a PS4.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Now, ok. I did a search about the whole free roaming city thing. . . Problem is. . . none of those threads seem to address something. . . (mods: if you guys feel this thread is pointless or some misguided copy please point me in the right direction.)

An open world, be it a city or a large parking lot gives you a few things. . . A large customizable parking lot would be quite nice, make drift courses obstacle courses or what have you. A city has traffic, pot holes, different types of road wear an tear, alley ways so on and so forth. Honestly I don't see why either would b such a bad thing. I think they would both increase driving skill. A race track for the most part is a rather controlled environment. Theres a basic line across teh the track that most will stay close to. With the exception of wrecks and lap traffic or the occasional loose part, not much happens/ Not including your car's misbehavior or your lack of controlling it.

An obstacle course allows you to make things more erratic. truly challenge yourself in a manner that a race course wouldn't. Now, sure there's a lot you can do on a race track. . . race, drift, and some stunt driving. . . but it feels kind of limited in that manner. Now, don't go off on me because I'm talking about stunt driving. I don't mean like carzy crazy movie flying cars and stuff like that. But I mean, say sliding your car into a parking space, drifting through an intersection and into a narrow alley or tagging cones with the back bumper of your car (which I admit is made available in some courses of Gt5 but the setup sems a bit strict.)

My point being, yes, this is a racing simulator. But not all of race driving involves purely race driving. I would imagine aspects from each thing might play in. Again, something like an obstacle course could teach you how to make your movements more precise, putting your car where you want on a tighter scale. A city gives you the more variable, traffic and road conditions that can be sudden or surprising. teach you how to deal with a pot hole at 160mph.

I'm just saying there are other opportunities that PD can pursue that would be beneficial and that people shouldn't just discount them because it seems pointless, or the online with that function will be horrible. Ok, you complain PD sorts out the bugs from your complaints.

Others generate ideas, and hopefully PD takes notice and at some point in our lifetimes implement it if it becomes popular enough. So on and so forth. So I don't see why a city or obstacle course or what have you is such a bad idea.

And for those who worry about pursuits happening constantly with the city aspect. . . yea, ok. A. you don't have to stay on that server, and B. Even from a racing perspective there's bound to be something to learn from whats effectively a police pursuit. Just saying, its not so much about a city that I'm talking about as much as just opportunities to expand our driving ability. Maybe open License tests after you complete them to be driven "for fun" with your personal vehicles. Anyway thats what I felt the need to express.

There, I broke up your text wall. Makes it easier to read. The way it was, I kept getting lost. 💡

Now that I can read it, sounds like you need to check out Need 4 Speed, Sigma. Need 4 Speed and Grand Theft Auto.

 

[sumbrownkid]

GT: MMO.

Also a PC could do it, and wee still got a fair few years to go for a PS4.

But it'll probably need some bang on fresh from the research lab graphics card.

And having free roam goes far beyond just the graphics, as they also have to model pedestrians if any (And so far stick figures look better than the crowds in GT5), and a lot of buildings if they choose an urban, or urbanish environment, as well as a lot of AI cars if PD wants to make this aspect of a game come to life.

Weather and dynamic lighting seems nightmarish for a free roam if weather and dynamic lighting already posed some problems for PD in GT5.

 

[apex28del]

Why not? Although it would be new for the series, surely autocross and gymkhana are racing too?

 

[badger_mk2]

But it'll probably need some bang on fresh from the research lab graphics card.

And having free roam goes far beyond just the graphics, as they also have to model pedestrians if any (And so far stick figures look better than the crowds in GT5), and a lot of buildings if they choose an urban, or urbanish environment, as well as a lot of AI cars if PD wants to make this aspect of a game come to life.

Weather and dynamic lighting seems nightmarish for a free roam if weather and dynamic lighting already posed some problems for PD in GT5.

Lets take GTA4 for example, GT will use lower quality world and higher quality cars. Now for the full exp were talking fresh off the line tech, but to make it at a point where it playable and good looking you shouldnt have to spend over $2000 (which yes is a lot, but high end is a lot more)

The main issue I can think of is servers and internet, lag is gonna be the biggest problem with generating fully functioning car and ped AI and still streaming full quality gameplay to everyone in the lobby.

One high point of doing this on a console is you know exactly what people are running, but internet still plays a massive part.

Hang on another 3-5 years (which is what the PS3 can go for with its tech) youll be able to do a GT:MMO with relative ease (dependant on map size), but the final point is ofc players internet.

If we take my internet which is mid range on CoD I have a lag from anywhere between 0.2-0.8 seconds no matter what because of my upload. This means in an MMO there will be jumping.

 

[masmullin]

There, I broke up your text wall. Makes it easier to read. The way it was, I kept getting lost. 💡

Now that I can read it, sounds like you need to check out Need 4 Speed, Sigma. Need 4 Speed and Grand Theft Auto.

Thanks for breaking the text up for me.

I liked GTAs driving around ability, but I would love the driving around ability if you had the physics and real life cars of GT5.

 

[SigmaViper11]

There, I broke up your text wall. Makes it easier to read. The way it was, I kept getting lost. 💡

Now that I can read it, sounds like you need to check out Need 4 Speed, Sigma. Need 4 Speed and Grand Theft Auto.

Thanks for breaking it up. I took your feed back and applied it. Thanks for the feedback on that. I won't make something like that again with no sleep at 5am.

As for GTA and NFS. . . they are ok. But need for speed, while its trying is still, bleh. GTA is actually quite fun, but its not really a drivers game specially when it comes to a helicopter armed with rockets chasing you around a city.

Between everything, I do agree in the idea that it'll take another generation or two of console before we get there, unless on of the sim racing companies on the PC decides to move forward with a similar idea first.

I mean, an open city would give a much better representation of what it would be like to actually drive one of the many cars in GT. However, there's still a lot more.

Ok yes, pursuits. But I would imagine people would go drifting through the streets. If they include a decent size freeway then I would imagine the Wangan club would love that as well as any other freeway racer. Winding country and mountain roads could be used for Touge.
I'm just saying, there's a lot more to it. Yea there are a lot of people who don't know what the hell they are doing. But take a look almost anywhere on GTP and you'll find more than enough people who are willing to properly organize online when it comes to that aspect.

As for whether it'll get implemented if at all, I'm guessing patience is the key. Also feel free to toss ideas out there, because I would imagine with an open world there's more than just whats been mentioned so far.

Lets take GTA4 for example, GT will use lower quality world and higher quality cars. Now for the full exp were talking fresh off the line tech, but to make it at a point where it playable and good looking you shouldnt have to spend over $2000 (which yes is a lot, but high end is a lot more)

The main issue I can think of is servers and internet, lag is gonna be the biggest problem with generating fully functioning car and ped AI and still streaming full quality gameplay to everyone in the lobby.

One high point of doing this on a console is you know exactly what people are running, but internet still plays a massive part.

Hang on another 3-5 years (which is what the PS3 can go for with its tech) youll be able to do a GT:MMO with relative ease (dependant on map size), but the final point is ofc players internet.

If we take my internet which is mid range on CoD I have a lag from anywhere between 0.2-0.8 seconds no matter what because of my upload. This means in an MMO there will be jumping.

You have a very good point, but at the same time, I've already seen serious lag with people on GT5 that completely ruins a race. . . Mainly because of being confined by walls and their car is magically appearing starting, stopping, the works.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I had a dream (ok some will stop reading here) the other night that for some odd reason, I had a Ferrari 512TR and a Porsche 911 GT3 in my driveway. It was a video game of some sort as I recall. Anyways, the Ferrari had an auto trans, so I jumped in the Porsche instead. Then I just drove spiritedly on roads in my area at night. I wish we had some TDU style areas in GT5...or perhaps TDU with GT5 driving characteristics (and NFS shift visuals, and PGR4 sound)...perfect game!

 

[SigmaViper11]

I had a dream (ok some will stop reading here) the other night that for some odd reason, I had a Ferrari 512TR and a Porsche 911 GT3 in my driveway. It was a video game of some sort as I recall. Anyways, the Ferrari had an auto trans, so I jumped in the Porsche instead. Then I just drove spiritedly on roads in my area at night. I wish we had some TDU style areas in GT5...or perhaps TDU with GT5 driving characteristics (and NFS shift visuals, and PGR4 sound)...perfect game!

Idk, what TDU2 will be like, I have it reserved, I think it might be somewhat close but still missing a lot. Mainly because I don't think pure racing and driving are its focus.

 

[lozzy1234567890]

I think that they should (even thought it's not possible) take a map like GTA: san andreas, that map had everything, mountain routes, freeways, urban etc upscale it and use it for free roam. Also, if they implement the damage system into the free roam, there could be some fun with people going on top gear budget trip challenges, trying to reach somewhere before it breaks down.

 

[NEO-666]

Seems like the OP is speaking of something like TDU in Hardcore Mode, just involving more 'precision' driving, and a customisable carpark. Now I know Hardcore Mode has its bugs (Gravity??) but it is still an awesome way to take a car for a spin up some mountain passes, or rack up some 400kph freeway runs, dodging traffic.

Now its been a few months since I've last played TDU, GT despite its flaws, is still GT and 'has' to be played. But I feel that once TDU2 comes out GT is going to get a back seat. Provided that the TDU2 hype is true, it will be more realistic (than TDU1) in Standard and Hardcore Modes.

So it should be a game like TDU2 where one can improvise and create a gymkhana kind of parking lot, and from what I have heard, there will be pot-holes for people to dodge at 160+.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Thanks for breaking the text up for me.

I liked GTAs driving around ability, but I would love the driving around ability if you had the physics and real life cars of GT5.

Yea, I understand. Would be cool to have a Gran Turismo level car do some driving on an ordinary street with pot holes, obstacles, maybe pedestrians. I'm not holding my breath, though. I'm sure PD is much more concerned about DLC content that is more easily attainable, as well as thinking about what's gonna be in GT6.

I had a dream (ok some will stop reading here) the other night that for some odd reason, I had a Ferrari 512TR and a Porsche 911 GT3 in my driveway. It was a video game of some sort as I recall. Anyways, the Ferrari had an auto trans, so I jumped in the Porsche instead. Then I just drove spiritedly on roads in my area at night. I wish we had some TDU style areas in GT5...or perhaps TDU with GT5 driving characteristics (and NFS shift visuals, and PGR4 sound)...perfect game!

I read the whole dream. I've had several awesome GT dreams over the years. One I clearly remember was me driving some Gran Turismo car around Laguna Seca, except I wasn't actually driving, I was this huge giant pushing the car around the track.

When I woke up, I realized that it was a throwback to childhood. When i was a kid, there was no Gran Turismo, not even any videogames, yet. So we played with Matchbox, Hot Wheels, & Lego cars. In my dream, I was doing the same thing, only I didn't realize it.

 

[SigmaViper11]

I think Test Drive should show us a basic idea of what could happen.

 

[Piotrov]

I find the Gran Turismo Physics to be fantastic at high speeds however at cruising speeds they seem broken.
The cars seem to slide all over the place when the car is starting to roll as if its on ice. You can do a 180 at very low speeds at which it would be impossible in real life unless on ice.
I think before they start to think about cruising they should sort these minor details out.

Thus making me wonder why its calld a driving sim and not a racing sim.

But I would love to have a open world drive even if it was just trough some country or mountain roads... One of the reasons I was really bummed out to find out the course editor did not have point to point when the game released.

 

[SigmaViper11]

I find the Gran Turismo Physics to be fantastic at high speeds however at cruising speeds they seem broken.
The cars seem to slide all over the place when the car is starting to roll as if its on ice. You can do a 180 at very low speeds at which it would be impossible in real life unless on ice.
I think before they start to think about cruising they should sort these minor details out.

Thus making me wonder why its calld a driving sim and not a racing sim.

But I would love to have a open world drive even if it was just trough some country or mountain roads... One of the reasons I was really bummed out to find out the course editor did not have point to point when the game released.

Its been a while since I signed in here. I've played TDU 2 and found its plagued with low speed physics issues (let alone having odd physics to begin with). It is a problem that needs to be seriously addressed. I also believe that whatever is causing low speed physics issues, when fixed, may improve high speed physics as well. Alas, computer make things a lot more difficult than that in reality. Its up to the programmers, but it is something they need to fix. My TVR Speed 12 shouldn't slide 12ft to the left when I'm rolling off the line at 8mph in 2nd gear. It should also be keeping full grip at all times anyway, since I noticed it seems some cars can't make a decent U-turn unless you're doing 30mph. WTF. Also, for both games, I'm beginning to feel a clutch pedal or button is mandatory in some cases. The cars sometimes feel like wind up toys. You're spinning and get off the throttle and drive wheels are still spinning in a forward direction at a ridiculous speed while the engine is redlining for no apparent reason. I feel that there are a lot of things that need to be met before they can move forward with this.

They need to be able to pull off human drivable pit stops.

Fix low speed physics.

Create more dynamic damage.

Make wet driving and the tire selection difference more realistic (soft slicks should not grip water like a wet tread)

Better Penalty systems.

I think if they can program these they'd be well on their way.

I mean if they're going to have an open city and a possible policing entity, its GT, it needs to be done as well as the best out there or better when it comes out. Refueling, damage repair, possible penalties, physics, as well as a UI that can accommodate some new functions that may pertain to this feature may be a good idea. Some of which I feel can be utilized in the sub-menu used during racing. I forgot what its called, RM menu or something like that. RA function.

I feel that much of that will make a more realistic city driving base should they ever feel ambitious enough to pursue that endeavor.