Factory Production vs. Hand-Building

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JohnBM01

JohnBM01

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JMarine25
Hi, GTPlanet.

Well, my ideas keep rolling along, and so I figured I'd start this thread. As much as I know, Rolls-Royces and Bentleys and stuff are hand-built. Cars like the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are built in factories. But I've always wondered... despite the prices of the cars after operations, what are the differences, advantages/disadvantages, and such of the manufacturing of these cars? Just like my "Kit Cars" thread, you can educate me and others on this topic.
 
Advanatages are...
Personally overseen by trusted professionals

Beautiful Finish (Compare the interior of a Bentley Arnage to any other mass produced car)
You know that it was all done properly

Options are endless because people can adapt parts to fit whereas a production line makes everything the same
(See Bentley Personal Comission or Bespoke cars)

Cons
Expensive
Slow
Long waiting lists

The fit and finish of a Bentley is far superior than any mass produced car, Kit Cars are good because you can do everything yourself (hand specified parts), I've seen Cobra replicas with everything from 308 Holden V8's, 302 Windsor V8's to Rover 3.5's and Chrysler HEMI engines and the interiors vary according to the money and time you spend.
 
And there is always the factor of replication, you'd never have anything that wasn't "One of a kind". I'd say that there are always great benefits to building a Kit car, just make sure that the manufacturer for the kit is reputable, other than that, you're set for a whopping good time. I helped put together a Lambo kit car, and it was one heck of a fun project, that most people don't know exist. Plus the results are always fun to look at. We dropped in a built 'vette engine into it, it was quite quick. I think the est. total cost, including paint and stuff, was about 22,000, which in comparison to a real Lambo, is chump change.
 
There was an article in evo magazine recently about replica Ferraris. There was a great Daytona replica based on a Jaguar XJS V12. He had the chassis shortened and the engine blueprinted, he then recreated the entire Daytona interior to a certain degree with all original Ferrari parts (cost him 28,000 pounds! not including the Jag)
 
No car is 100% hand built. That would be impossible. The number of parts in a modern car is mind-numbing and the notion that someone would hand-cast an aluminum engine block or hand-form a steel unit-body on a jig in this day in age is absurd. Most of the times robots simply do a way, way better job and they do it way faster.

A Rolls is expensive not just because it has many components that are hand assembled. It uses the highest quality of assembling possible. If a part can be made better by a robot, it will be made by a robot. If part can be made better by a person, it will be.

Most door panels today are stamped along with the quarter panels, then separated by a robotic laser. This ensures a near perfect fit and excellent continuity between the two peices of metal. Sure a person can cut the panel, but why the hell would they when a robot can do it better and cheaper?

The perceived level of quality from a Rolls doesn't nessessarily come from "hand craftsmanship". That's just a nice marketing shtick. The quality comes from engineering, from design, from each component being built to the highest levels, regardless of whether there is person there or not. It comes from not cutting corners to save cost... because after all they are building the finest car in the world.

..and of course a Roller feels vastly superior to a mass-production Toyota or Ford. It costs 20 times as much as one!

EDIT: And incidently, even a $20,000 compact car has a lot of components that are assembled by hand. There ARE people in factories.


M
 
Originally posted by sliderulz
Advanatages are...
Personally overseen by trusted professionals

Beautiful Finish

You know that it was all done properly
The fit and finish of a Bentley is far superior than any mass produced car
Click to expand...
Maybe in 2004. Look at a Jag, Rolls, Bentley etc. produced anywhere between about 1970 and 1990 and you'd never be able to say that, even when they were new.
 
interesting...

I guess if some hand-built cars were actually factory produced, this is probably what would happen (and I'm just guessing)

The Panoz Esperante might sell for about... $35K
Dodge Viper GTS: $40K
Jaguar XJ220 $78K, maybe $135K

Now, when I first heard of hand-built cars, I was thinking that people work throught day and night assembling parts for the car. You know, no power tools, no fabricating, just put it together like a jigsaw puzzle. I'm pretty sure that race cars are surely hand-built because no one wants a race car for the street (no, I mean no one wants racing-only cars for the street).

Now, in terms of rigidity and endurance, how do hand-built and factory-produced cars fare?
 
Originally posted by JohnBM01


I guess if some hand-built cars were actually factory produced, this is probably what would happen (and I'm just guessing)
Click to expand...

Like you, I'm guessing, however I don't think you would really see a drop in prices in those kind of cars if they were factory produced. The machines can be horribly expensive, and with a limited production run there aren't many cars to spread the cost out over. I think that in general if a company is using people to do a job it's because, under their circumstances, a person is cheaper than robot.
 
When you get cars that are in a Limited run it can be cheaper to hand build them, getting the machinery to put together only a handful of cars is not cost effective.
As for which is best, I 've always thought hand built cars have a special feel to them, like TVR's, and Aston Martins, theres a feel of quality about them and it's not just because they're expensive because in the TVR's case they usually arn't.
 
Ford had the idea when they built the Mustang Cobra R.

They used lower quality tooling that was cheap and lasted for the limited run they were doing. Ford Aus looked at the tooling for the V8 to use in the BA Falcon but the low quality meant it wouldn't stand up to mass production.
 
Originally posted by ///M-Spec
No car is 100% hand built. That would be impossible. The number of parts in a modern car is mind-numbing and the notion that someone would hand-cast an aluminum engine block or hand-form a steel unit-body on a jig in this day in age is absurd. Most of the times robots simply do a way, way better job and they do it way faster.

A Rolls is expensive not just because it has many components that are hand assembled. It uses the highest quality of assembling possible. If a part can be made better by a robot, it will be made by a robot. If part can be made better by a person, it will be.

Most door panels today are stamped along with the quarter panels, then separated by a robotic laser. This ensures a near perfect fit and excellent continuity between the two peices of metal. Sure a person can cut the panel, but why the hell would they when a robot can do it better and cheaper?

The perceived level of quality from a Rolls doesn't nessessarily come from "hand craftsmanship". That's just a nice marketing shtick. The quality comes from engineering, from design, from each component being built to the highest levels, regardless of whether there is person there or not. It comes from not cutting corners to save cost... because after all they are building the finest car in the world.

..and of course a Roller feels vastly superior to a mass-production Toyota or Ford. It costs 20 times as much as one!

EDIT: And incidently, even a $20,000 compact car has a lot of components that are assembled by hand. There ARE people in factories.


M
Click to expand...

Agree with most of what has been said here, but a few company do come damn close.

Morgan - Most models (apart from the Aero 8) are still built on wooden frames (made from Ash) they are hand assembled and the body panels are all beaten and shapped by hand. However engine and drivetrains are mainly bought in now.

TVR - All componants are built by TVR on site at Blackpool, yes machines are used in some of the production, but the tubular roll cage chassis is handbuilt and the fibreglass bodies all built by hand. The engines are machined and built by hand and the initials of the person who puts it together are stamped on it. Additionally all the switch gear is made on-site, the shot below shows how good the end result is (obviously the CD-Player is bought in - but thats getting silly) for a car in the region of £50k

However with all of these you could for example say that while TVR make up the wiring looms for all the cars the make, a machine made the wires that make the loom. Its a case of at what point you draw the line.

My favorite one is older Astons, when a plaque was put on each engine to show who built it and it you took the car back to the factory for a service you could get the same person to service the engine.
 

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Sweet...

I don't know if I'd fit in the front seat after having raced TVRs in all three Gran Turismos (maybe even the upcoming 4th as well).
 
Originally posted by Scaff
Agree with most of what has been said here, but a few company do come damn close.
Click to expand...

That's a good point Scaff. I guess I was thinking mainstream automakers and not the ultra-small volume British specialty outfits like you mentioned.

Still, Morgans are powered by BMW engines and drivetrains but TVR is a good exception.


M
 
I heard on tv that Bentley or Rolls Royce, which ever one was bought by BMW recently, was going to stop being hand assembled, because it was bought by BMW.

And theoritcally speaking, everything is "Hand Made", because the machines they use to make what they are making were made by human hands, and the metal in the machines was dug out by another machine that another human made and so on and so forth....:lol: :lol:
 
I think BMW bought Rolls Royce. And I "know" it's BMW because they made that RR that had BMW tuning to it. The car cost for about $325,000.
 
Rolls Royce are now owned by BMW
Bentley are now owned by VW

Two once inseperable marques now heading in very different directions, but it is good to see that Bentley have revived an interest in motorsport, just a shame they will not be at Le Mans this year.
 

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Amen, Scaff.

To me, it's a shame that Bentley won't bring out their LMP race car for some more races. I think it is the only other beautiful prototype race car other than the Ferrari 333SP. The EXP GT race car is probably as beautiful as any of the machines of the past (meaning, the early 1900s all the way to maybe the 1940s). I think Bentley should probably do what Ferrari did. Ferrari is dominant in Formula One, maybe Bentley can offer its LMP race car to privateer teams. Maybe an American-based team, or a British-based team can race them in the ALMS as a privateer effort. Since Bentley isn't really considering coming back, I just want to again, congratulate Bentley for winning Le Mans... AGAIN. That means that within the first 10 years of Le Mans, Bentley cleaned right up five times.

So tell me, would you want a car produced by factory or by hand? It seems like hand-built cars (like the Panoz Esperante or the Shelby Cobra, for American examples) sell for much more than the factory counterparts. I can recall watching an episode of "American Muscle Car" about the Dodge Viper. Later in that show, the Dodge team were building up Dodge Vipers for street and competition use. And they were hand-building each part of the Viper. Had it been factory produced, I don't know if it can still be not as fragile as if it were done by hand.

But in my view, I think the Viper needs to make a comeback in sportscar racing. I would love to see Team Oreca purchase new-model Viper GTS-Rs and challenge the Corvette boys. Oreca did it best winning in class, and I think even ALMS titles.
 

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