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I thought I’'d put up a post covering a variety of things I’'ve done/found now that I’'ve moved from my Logitech DFGT Plus Wheelstand Pro to a Fanatec CSR XL Pack. I'’ve put in a bit of info on what I did with the stand in case others do the same as well as some pointers on the CSR Wheel/Pedals themselves.
I should stress that I only did these wheelstand mods as I already had the DFGT version of the stand. If you get the wheelstand pro for Fanatec Porsche/CSR wheels then you don't have to do any mods and it's actually a bit wider so is more stable. I would've ordered the GT3 stand in super cool orange if I didn't think the missus would have hung me out to dry if more gaming kit turned up at the house ;-D
Wheelstand Pro – Moving from a DFGT to a CSR (Or most other Fanatec wheels I think)
Here'’s some nfo on what I did as part of using my DFGT wheelstand pro with my new CSR.
Wheel Mounting
The CSR clamp isn't’ really designed to work with the wheel base and whilst there are two holes pre-drilled that match the rear mounts on the Fanatec wheels, I don’t like the idea of placing too much load on just these two mount points.
Using the template that Fanatec have on their site it is easy enough to drill the two extra holes to mount your wheel using all 4 mounts.
Mounting Template link:
http://www.fanatec.de/html/index.php?id=31162&lang=
I used 20mm M6 bolts
If you'’re wanting sturdier shifter mounts you'’ll hit the next problem I encountered though….
Shifter Mounts
Whilst the supplied shifter mount bars with the CSR wheel did work, they aren’t really sturdy enough and are a pain if you want to switch between the sequential and H shifter.
I contacted Wheelstand Pro and asked them for a price to get:
- two of their shifter mounts from their Fanatec stands
- the extra bar to securely mount the pedals
These were reasonably priced so I ordered them up. (Note that I'’ve followed up with Wheelstand Pro a couple of times for extra pieces and they have always provided great service, I really recommend them to others).
You can take a look at this youtube video (around 4m30s mark) if you want to get a look at what the shifter mounts look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOqFG2e2lKA
I ordered two so I could have one either side and just plug/unplug the cables according to what I wanted to use.
Again there are pre-drilled holes on the DFGT stand that let you screw on the shifter mounts, however, once you screw on your new shifter mounts they cover up your newly drilled holes for the wheel mounts!!
Easily solved by drilling a couple of holes through the shifter mounts and using longer bolts through these two holes so they reach the wheel through the DFGT plate plus the shifter mounts. Mark the drill points by screwing on your shifter mounts and then marking the centre of your recently drilled new mounting holes.
Drill through the shifter mounts and you’re good to go. I changed these two bolts to 30mm M6.
Once you’re done it should look something like this:
Pedal Mounts
The DFGT Pedal straps aren’t quite the right size for the CSR Elite pedals. I drilled an overlapping hole with one of the existing ones on the Red upper strap which let me line them up better. I then used a washer with the bolt to make sure the load was spread evenly.
As well as the shift mounts, I asked Wheelstand Pro to send me an extra pedal strap as the lower DFGT one is threaded and I couldn’t drill an extra hole in it.
You'’d probably be fine with just the one strap but I decided to get the extra one.
Improving comfort of the Wheelstand
Once I started using the clutch pedal and learning heel & toe, I found the clamp on the vertical post of the wheelstand was digging into my right calf. I loosened off the pedal mount bars at this end of the wheel stand so I could take the vertical post off and turn it around so the clamp was on the left side where I didn’t need as much room for maneuver. Note that if you’'re doing this there are little rubber o-rings that you should remove before sliding the vertical post off the main bar and that you’ll have to remove the bottom clamp on the vertical post and switch it around so it is facing towards you.
This picture shows the stand after I’ve switched it around:
Future Mods – Shifter Set Switch
With both shifters mounted it is easy enough to plug/unplug them to switch over to the different type. The geek in me would like to have a switch for this though. I'’ve had a look around and can’t find a PS2 specific switch box (you get lots of KVM switch boxes which way too big for what I’m after).
If anyone knows of one then let me know. I may end up just hardwiring a custom switch box but I'’m finding that I rarely use the sequential shifter so may not bother.
CSR Elite Pedals – Brake & Accelerator Height Mod
I started using my clutch pedal on Forza 4 to get extra XP/Credits but have found I’m loving the extra immersion. It also meant I really needed to start using heel & toe to keep better control of the car and get that satisfying blip of the throttle when changing down gears ;-)
I found it hard to get this working as the pedals are all at the same height. So I tried moving the pedal adjustments but they only adjust the throw, not the positioning of the pedals.
Someone on these forums suggested changing the spacers so that’s exactly what I did. I used this simple mod to give a bit of difference in the height of the Brake/Accel pedals to help make Heel & Toe easier (for me at least). I also moved the Accelerator pedal one position closer to the centre of the pedal stand.
The mod was to remove to plastic spacer between the accelerator pedal plate and arm and add an extra spacer between the brake’s plastic spacer and pedal arm. This gives just enough difference to make heel & toe that bit easier. I used some bits of hardwood cut/drilled to size and covered in black duct tape to make them a bit neater. The existing bolt on the brake pedal was just long enough for this spacer. If you want to use something thicker you’ll have to get another bolt.
Hardboard Spacer:
Both Pedals Remounted:
CSR FAQ Section
After some trial, error and digging around on various sites I’ve learnt the following about the CSR wheel/pedals/shifters that others may find of use.
Modes
The PS3 mode emulates a Logitech G25 wheel so in most games you will see it listed as that in settings menus. Some PS3 games may support it in PC mode but this isn’t guaranteed.
Firmware
You'’ll need to make sure you’re on at least firmware v706 as v701 (which mine shipped with in May 2012) has a bug where your custom settings are not saved.
Beta firmware V742b was issued in June/July 2012 which brings some improvements like ACL (Auto clutch in Forza 4) but does have some other issues. Some raved about it’s improved feedback and spring behaviour.
I gave it a quick go and really didn'’t like it as the centre was very light and the spring effect didn’t feel progressive at all as you moved further from centre. I’'m hoping this will be rectified before the final release….
H Shifter Calibration (or losing it on Forza 4)
Calibration will work in XBOX mode, however, what I found was regardless of how I calibrated my H Shifter, each time I started Forza 4 I had to recalibrate it.
I eventually caught a snippet on a site where someone mentioned that if you switch your xbox on/off via the CSR Guide button, it loses the calibration. Indeed, ever since I started to switch my xbox on/off using the main unit’s power switch I'’ve not had this problem
GT5 Force Feedback
There are a few interesting topics/debates talking about disappointing force feedback on the CSR/CSR Elite in GT5, most specifically with regards to the wheel feeding back the onset of understeer. E.g. in Forza 4, as you reach the limit of adhesion on your front tires and go beyond it, the wheel goes light indicating you are past the slip angle for that given speed. This isn't happening on GT5, or if it is, it’s too subtle to detect.
The way I see it (and no doubt others will correct me ;-P ) is that the wheel should convey this sensation in three circumstances:
1) When you spin up the front wheels in a FWD car through aggressive acceleration
2) When you lock up your front wheels under braking
3) When you exceed the slip angle of the front tires when driving through a corner (either due to acceleration (i.e. weight transfer to rear) or just by travelling too fast for the level of grip)
What I’ve found on GT5 with this wheel is that the wheel does go light for scenarios 1 & 2 above but not for 3. This does make it harder to know how much you can push in corners.
Convinced my DFGT used to handle scenario 3 I did a quick switch back to it but found that it was exactly the same, the wheel went light for 1 & 2 but no change at all for 3.
I'’m guessing one of the following has happened:
1) It was my imagination that this ever happened on my DFGT
2) Polyphony have tampered with this aspect of force feedback overlapping when I’ve changed wheels, meaning I didn’t notice it before I used my CSR
As a side note, I couldn’t believe how ‘notchy’ my DFGT felt after using the CSR. I loved my DFGT for the couple of years I used it and still think it’s a great wheel (especially for £75!) but that alone is a huge difference in these wheels.
Gameplay Observations
Playing with a Clutch & H Pattern Shifter
I’'m really surprised by how much this adds to racing games. I’'m loving learning how to heel & toe whilst downshifting and generally find the whole gameplay experience far more involving than just flipping paddles to change gear. In some ways I don'’t enjoy driving cars with flappy paddle gearboxes so much now as I miss that extra level of immersion!
Force Feedback Dropout
I’'ve only had this happen maybe three or four times on Forza 4 but it is strange. Sometimes the wheel just seems to ‘hang’ with a set amount of force in one direction, or the feedback just stops altogether. I'’ve found that simply restarting the wheel has sorted it on all but one occasion where I had to restart the xbox.
CSR Wheel Settings
For those who may be setting up their wheels for the first time, have a go of these to see how you like them:
Forza 4 (XBOX 360)
SENS 900
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR 0
I'’ve been using Simulation steering in the in-game settings.
I also have an alternative for LMP racing cars where I have SENS set to 450 to give quicker steering response.
GT5 (PS3)
SENS OFF
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR -3
DPR 0
In game steering set to simulation, use the Logitech G25 panel to customize controls and I currently have force feedback strength set to 5.
F1 2011 (PS3)
SENS 270
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs 90
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR -3
In-game, 0 for all steering settings. Env't Effects 50%, Force Feedback 100% and Wheel Weight 0% (I’'ve not played about a lot with this game yet so may be lots of room for improvement.)
Dirt 3 (PS3)
SENS 270
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR 0
Steering Saturation 100%, Linearity 0%. 0% for deadzones. Force Feedback settings; Vibration Strength 100%, Wheel Strength 100% & Wheel Weight 40%. Again, I’'ve not played about a lot with this game yet so may be lots of room for improvement.
Other Games
I'’ve not tried Shift 2 on the PS3 yet. I’'d like to give it another go but I suspect the input lag will get too annoying.
I picked up a 2nd hand copy of Race Pro on the xbox which I haven'’t really had a go at yet. Once I do I'’ll post my settings.
TDU2 (PS3). Such disappointing wheel support on this game it’s really not worth bothering. A shame as it could be great fun…
Anyway, hopefully some others will find parts of this useful.
Cheers
I should stress that I only did these wheelstand mods as I already had the DFGT version of the stand. If you get the wheelstand pro for Fanatec Porsche/CSR wheels then you don't have to do any mods and it's actually a bit wider so is more stable. I would've ordered the GT3 stand in super cool orange if I didn't think the missus would have hung me out to dry if more gaming kit turned up at the house ;-D
Wheelstand Pro – Moving from a DFGT to a CSR (Or most other Fanatec wheels I think)
Here'’s some nfo on what I did as part of using my DFGT wheelstand pro with my new CSR.
Wheel Mounting
The CSR clamp isn't’ really designed to work with the wheel base and whilst there are two holes pre-drilled that match the rear mounts on the Fanatec wheels, I don’t like the idea of placing too much load on just these two mount points.
Using the template that Fanatec have on their site it is easy enough to drill the two extra holes to mount your wheel using all 4 mounts.
Mounting Template link:
http://www.fanatec.de/html/index.php?id=31162&lang=
I used 20mm M6 bolts
If you'’re wanting sturdier shifter mounts you'’ll hit the next problem I encountered though….
Shifter Mounts
Whilst the supplied shifter mount bars with the CSR wheel did work, they aren’t really sturdy enough and are a pain if you want to switch between the sequential and H shifter.
I contacted Wheelstand Pro and asked them for a price to get:
- two of their shifter mounts from their Fanatec stands
- the extra bar to securely mount the pedals
These were reasonably priced so I ordered them up. (Note that I'’ve followed up with Wheelstand Pro a couple of times for extra pieces and they have always provided great service, I really recommend them to others).
You can take a look at this youtube video (around 4m30s mark) if you want to get a look at what the shifter mounts look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOqFG2e2lKA
I ordered two so I could have one either side and just plug/unplug the cables according to what I wanted to use.
Again there are pre-drilled holes on the DFGT stand that let you screw on the shifter mounts, however, once you screw on your new shifter mounts they cover up your newly drilled holes for the wheel mounts!!
Easily solved by drilling a couple of holes through the shifter mounts and using longer bolts through these two holes so they reach the wheel through the DFGT plate plus the shifter mounts. Mark the drill points by screwing on your shifter mounts and then marking the centre of your recently drilled new mounting holes.
Drill through the shifter mounts and you’re good to go. I changed these two bolts to 30mm M6.
Once you’re done it should look something like this:
Pedal Mounts
The DFGT Pedal straps aren’t quite the right size for the CSR Elite pedals. I drilled an overlapping hole with one of the existing ones on the Red upper strap which let me line them up better. I then used a washer with the bolt to make sure the load was spread evenly.
As well as the shift mounts, I asked Wheelstand Pro to send me an extra pedal strap as the lower DFGT one is threaded and I couldn’t drill an extra hole in it.
You'’d probably be fine with just the one strap but I decided to get the extra one.
Improving comfort of the Wheelstand
Once I started using the clutch pedal and learning heel & toe, I found the clamp on the vertical post of the wheelstand was digging into my right calf. I loosened off the pedal mount bars at this end of the wheel stand so I could take the vertical post off and turn it around so the clamp was on the left side where I didn’t need as much room for maneuver. Note that if you’'re doing this there are little rubber o-rings that you should remove before sliding the vertical post off the main bar and that you’ll have to remove the bottom clamp on the vertical post and switch it around so it is facing towards you.
This picture shows the stand after I’ve switched it around:
Future Mods – Shifter Set Switch
With both shifters mounted it is easy enough to plug/unplug them to switch over to the different type. The geek in me would like to have a switch for this though. I'’ve had a look around and can’t find a PS2 specific switch box (you get lots of KVM switch boxes which way too big for what I’m after).
If anyone knows of one then let me know. I may end up just hardwiring a custom switch box but I'’m finding that I rarely use the sequential shifter so may not bother.
CSR Elite Pedals – Brake & Accelerator Height Mod
I started using my clutch pedal on Forza 4 to get extra XP/Credits but have found I’m loving the extra immersion. It also meant I really needed to start using heel & toe to keep better control of the car and get that satisfying blip of the throttle when changing down gears ;-)
I found it hard to get this working as the pedals are all at the same height. So I tried moving the pedal adjustments but they only adjust the throw, not the positioning of the pedals.
Someone on these forums suggested changing the spacers so that’s exactly what I did. I used this simple mod to give a bit of difference in the height of the Brake/Accel pedals to help make Heel & Toe easier (for me at least). I also moved the Accelerator pedal one position closer to the centre of the pedal stand.
The mod was to remove to plastic spacer between the accelerator pedal plate and arm and add an extra spacer between the brake’s plastic spacer and pedal arm. This gives just enough difference to make heel & toe that bit easier. I used some bits of hardwood cut/drilled to size and covered in black duct tape to make them a bit neater. The existing bolt on the brake pedal was just long enough for this spacer. If you want to use something thicker you’ll have to get another bolt.
Hardboard Spacer:
Both Pedals Remounted:
CSR FAQ Section
After some trial, error and digging around on various sites I’ve learnt the following about the CSR wheel/pedals/shifters that others may find of use.
Modes
The PS3 mode emulates a Logitech G25 wheel so in most games you will see it listed as that in settings menus. Some PS3 games may support it in PC mode but this isn’t guaranteed.
Firmware
You'’ll need to make sure you’re on at least firmware v706 as v701 (which mine shipped with in May 2012) has a bug where your custom settings are not saved.
Beta firmware V742b was issued in June/July 2012 which brings some improvements like ACL (Auto clutch in Forza 4) but does have some other issues. Some raved about it’s improved feedback and spring behaviour.
I gave it a quick go and really didn'’t like it as the centre was very light and the spring effect didn’t feel progressive at all as you moved further from centre. I’'m hoping this will be rectified before the final release….
H Shifter Calibration (or losing it on Forza 4)
Calibration will work in XBOX mode, however, what I found was regardless of how I calibrated my H Shifter, each time I started Forza 4 I had to recalibrate it.
I eventually caught a snippet on a site where someone mentioned that if you switch your xbox on/off via the CSR Guide button, it loses the calibration. Indeed, ever since I started to switch my xbox on/off using the main unit’s power switch I'’ve not had this problem
GT5 Force Feedback
There are a few interesting topics/debates talking about disappointing force feedback on the CSR/CSR Elite in GT5, most specifically with regards to the wheel feeding back the onset of understeer. E.g. in Forza 4, as you reach the limit of adhesion on your front tires and go beyond it, the wheel goes light indicating you are past the slip angle for that given speed. This isn't happening on GT5, or if it is, it’s too subtle to detect.
The way I see it (and no doubt others will correct me ;-P ) is that the wheel should convey this sensation in three circumstances:
1) When you spin up the front wheels in a FWD car through aggressive acceleration
2) When you lock up your front wheels under braking
3) When you exceed the slip angle of the front tires when driving through a corner (either due to acceleration (i.e. weight transfer to rear) or just by travelling too fast for the level of grip)
What I’ve found on GT5 with this wheel is that the wheel does go light for scenarios 1 & 2 above but not for 3. This does make it harder to know how much you can push in corners.
Convinced my DFGT used to handle scenario 3 I did a quick switch back to it but found that it was exactly the same, the wheel went light for 1 & 2 but no change at all for 3.
I'’m guessing one of the following has happened:
1) It was my imagination that this ever happened on my DFGT
2) Polyphony have tampered with this aspect of force feedback overlapping when I’ve changed wheels, meaning I didn’t notice it before I used my CSR
As a side note, I couldn’t believe how ‘notchy’ my DFGT felt after using the CSR. I loved my DFGT for the couple of years I used it and still think it’s a great wheel (especially for £75!) but that alone is a huge difference in these wheels.
Gameplay Observations
Playing with a Clutch & H Pattern Shifter
I’'m really surprised by how much this adds to racing games. I’'m loving learning how to heel & toe whilst downshifting and generally find the whole gameplay experience far more involving than just flipping paddles to change gear. In some ways I don'’t enjoy driving cars with flappy paddle gearboxes so much now as I miss that extra level of immersion!
Force Feedback Dropout
I’'ve only had this happen maybe three or four times on Forza 4 but it is strange. Sometimes the wheel just seems to ‘hang’ with a set amount of force in one direction, or the feedback just stops altogether. I'’ve found that simply restarting the wheel has sorted it on all but one occasion where I had to restart the xbox.
CSR Wheel Settings
For those who may be setting up their wheels for the first time, have a go of these to see how you like them:
Forza 4 (XBOX 360)
SENS 900
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR 0
I'’ve been using Simulation steering in the in-game settings.
I also have an alternative for LMP racing cars where I have SENS set to 450 to give quicker steering response.
GT5 (PS3)
SENS OFF
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR -3
DPR 0
In game steering set to simulation, use the Logitech G25 panel to customize controls and I currently have force feedback strength set to 5.
F1 2011 (PS3)
SENS 270
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs 90
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR -3
In-game, 0 for all steering settings. Env't Effects 50%, Force Feedback 100% and Wheel Weight 0% (I’'ve not played about a lot with this game yet so may be lots of room for improvement.)
Dirt 3 (PS3)
SENS 270
FF 100
Sho 100
dri Off
abs Off
Lin 0
Dea 0
SPR 0
DPR 0
Steering Saturation 100%, Linearity 0%. 0% for deadzones. Force Feedback settings; Vibration Strength 100%, Wheel Strength 100% & Wheel Weight 40%. Again, I’'ve not played about a lot with this game yet so may be lots of room for improvement.
Other Games
I'’ve not tried Shift 2 on the PS3 yet. I’'d like to give it another go but I suspect the input lag will get too annoying.
I picked up a 2nd hand copy of Race Pro on the xbox which I haven'’t really had a go at yet. Once I do I'’ll post my settings.
TDU2 (PS3). Such disappointing wheel support on this game it’s really not worth bothering. A shame as it could be great fun…
Anyway, hopefully some others will find parts of this useful.
Cheers
Last edited:
