Federal (US) MPG Standards: Corporations Suggest Setting Their Own Standard

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50 MPG by 2030? Is there even a car sold in America now that can actually get that? Will there even be oil by 2030?

So not even your little diesel hatchbacks do that? For instance a 1.2 Clio Diesel or something like that?

You get small hatchbacks in the States surely?
 
The problem with this is that the corporations are just as in-touch with what the population wants. Which do you think would be top priority, improved environmental performance... or ways to increase profit? I think companies could still hit the proposed levels pretty easily, but for them it means a huge chunk of profit gone. So they'd much rather drag this whole "green" movement out so it's as slow as possible.

It largely depends on what company you're talking about here. Toyota figured out that Hybrids are the "hip" alternative these days, so they're throwing HSD under every one of their products. Most other companies still aren't completely convinced, and while they're developing the technology, many of them are still looking to diesel and other alternative fuels for the best possible solution to the issue.

With GM and Ford both pretty much out of the running for the top-spot these days (probably for the foreseeable future), I think they're going to be less focused on profits in the short term by building up their current lines, and making their products more desirable, and then addressing other issues that arrive later down the road.

It is part of the reason why GM is pushing so hard to get the Volt on the road by 2010. They want it because people want it, and more or less, its a game-changer in the hybrid/alt-fuel race. With Honda and BMW jumping into the diesel game (in the US), I'm sure that will add pressure for fuel economy as well.

Give it time. I don't think any of the major automakers want the feds to stamp on an outrageous MPG standard (that one Democrat is calling for 50 MPG standards), but even they realize that they need to address the issue. If they can crank-up the efficiency levels on their cars to mirror that of Europe, it will be good news for everyone. I know GM is doing it, Ford is planning on it, and nobody is sure about Chrysler.

...Its a start...
 
And I'd hope by 2030 petrol and diesel will not even be available.

If that happens how will I be able to gas up my Ferrari 365 GTB/4?!

The plural of Prius is Priuses, not Prii, because it is a proper noun. Likewise, the plural of Lexus is Lexuses.
 
So not even your little diesel hatchbacks do that? For instance a 1.2 Clio Diesel or something like that?

You get small hatchbacks in the States surely?
Americans like diesel cars about as much as vegetarians like hamburgers. The only diesels that sell at any significant volume here are gigantic pickup trucks. Hopefully, ULSD and new attractive offerings from the likes of former DaimlerChrysler, VAG, and BMW will change things in the next few years.

We do get a handful of small hatchbacks here in the 'states, but they're the exception rather than the norm, they're pretty much all petrol-powered, and they're usually only available with the largest, most powerful engines the manufacturer offers.

A perfect example is the BMW 1-series which we're rumored to be getting soon. Ours will only be available as a notchback coupe (the hatchback wouldn't sell), and it'll only be available with the 6-cylinder engines.
 
Uh oh......

http://www.40mpg.org/index.cfm

If they only knew what went into an automobile they would know that these desires are not yet technologically feasible. There is a section claiming that the "Union of Concerned Scientists" know that this technology is available but is not being fet to us, yet it does not list any of these so called "cost-effective" solutions. Wasnt our country based upon the morals of free market? If that is true, then why is the government allowed to controll C02 emissions, and mileage of products that the auto companies sell? This issue frusterates me to no end.:ouch:
 
They must be rather stupid for the following reasons:

1) Who did they ask? Was it nationwide? Was it only people who were involved with the project? Were they men, women, teenagers, etc?

2) Moving standards up does nothing, particularly when the government and some companies are moving towards 50 MPG figures by 2030.

3) Furthermore, moving standards up does nothing because the average age of an automobile in this country is roughly eight years old. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, would have to trade their cars and trucks in for these new models in order to reap the full benefits.

...And lets be honest, thats another example of nevergonnahappen.com...

Greenies are idiots and are so out-of-touch with reality that it just isn't funny anymore. I think most people know, and want MPG standards to increase. Hell, even the corporations want to do it. Beyond that, everyone, including the corporations, want to cut greenhouse emissions as well.

...What more do they want? Nobody driving automobiles?
 
Americans like diesel cars about as much as vegetarians like hamburgers. The only diesels that sell at any significant volume here are gigantic pickup trucks. Hopefully, ULSD and new attractive offerings from the likes of former DaimlerChrysler, VAG, and BMW will change things in the next few years.

We do get a handful of small hatchbacks here in the 'states, but they're the exception rather than the norm, they're pretty much all petrol-powered, and they're usually only available with the largest, most powerful engines the manufacturer offers.

A perfect example is the BMW 1-series which we're rumored to be getting soon. Ours will only be available as a notchback coupe (the hatchback wouldn't sell), and it'll only be available with the 6-cylinder engines.

Is the dispopularity with diesel due to the comparative lack of power with the same petrol engine? Or is diesel more expensive at the tank?
 
Diesel is cheaper, and there is an increasing demand for the fuel and the cars themselves, but most people stay away from diesel models because of the MKI VW Rabbit (Golf) TDI and the late '80s Oldsmobile diesels from GM.

That being said, there has been an increased demand for diesels overall in the US. Volkswagen was unable to make enough TDI Jettas and Golfs for the US market before they stopped in 2006 to change for emissions regulations, and Mercedes has had a good amount of success with their diesel E-class as well.

For the most part in the US, diesel power is regulated to our full-size pickup trucks, and occasionally small cars (all VWs of course...). But, many of the top automakers are bringing more and more diesel products to the US by the close of the decade, including GM, Ford (maybe), Chrysler (probably), Honda, BMW, Audi (they currently do not offer diesels), and Toyota (if the market supports it... Hybrids are still their 'thing').
 
So it's a work in progress State side then?

We've had diesel for ages, mainly due to the MPG my dad does. The Altea averages about 50MPG, the Passat Estate (130bhp TDI) did about 45 MPG, Focus Estate did about 47 MPG. It certainly makes sense if you do many miles, my Dad must do around 600 each week. Though Diesel is about 92.9p per litre at it's cheapest around here (ASDA), the non supermarket garages though tend to be 95-97 p per litre.
 
Is the dispopularity with diesel due to the comparative lack of power with the same petrol engine? Or is diesel more expensive at the tank?
As YSSMAN alluded to, most of the problem stems from the diesels of the early '80s, which really turned people off -- the average american thinks that modern diesel cars are just as smoky, smelly, and as slow as they used to be.

Also, diesel isn't always cheaper than petrol here. It depends on the area.

So it's a work in progress State side then?
Pretty much. The diesel enthusiast community is steadily growing.
 
Pretty much. The diesel enthusiast community is steadily growing.

Its getting pretty big around here, although it is mostly spearheaded by the VW community these days. Unless of course you're into big trucks with the monster diesel applications...

My guess is that the Mid-West will likely pick-up on diesel long before the coastal cities will, given that diesels do better at constant-speed driving, as opposed to the stop-and-go driving that the coasts have towards Hybrid models.
 
More on Wednesdays Senate debate:

Fox News
WASHINGTON — As motorists face near record gasoline prices, the Senate took up an energy bill Tuesday that would raise auto fuel economy standards for the first time in nearly 20 years and make oil industry price gouging a federal crime.

Democratic leaders in both the Senate and House said they want broad energy legislation passed before the July 4th congressional recess, hoping to dampen growing voter anger over paying well above $3 a gallon at gasoline pumps across the country.

The Senate bill calls on automakers to boost their fuel economy to a fleet average of 35 miles per gallon by 2020, about a 40 percent increase over what new cars and the less fuel efficient SUVs and pickup trucks are required to attain today. The auto standard of 27.5 mpg was last increased 18 years ago. SUVS and small trucks must achieve a fleet average of 22.2 mpg.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Tuesday the bill would help reduce the country's reliance on oil — an addiction that consumes more than 21 million barrels a day, nearly two-thirds of it imported.

Reid has called the auto fuel efficiency measure, known as CAFE, the most contentious issue in the energy package.

Executives of General Motors, Ford and Chrysler called on Senate leaders last week arguing that the Senate bill's requirements may not be achievable. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., is working on a more modest fuel economy proposal that he says automakers believe they can meet.

"The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., a long time advocate for more stringent auto fuel economy requirements. She said numerous studies have shown manufacturers can meet CAFE increases more stringent than those being considered by the Senate.

The Senate bill, which faces numerous hurdles to overcome over the next two weeks, also would sharply ramp up the use of ethanol as a substitute for gasoline, requiring production of 36 billion gallons of ethanol a year by 2022, five times today's production.

While the additional ethanol initially would come from corn, eventually nearly two-thirds of it is expected to be produced from prairie grasses, wood chips and other cellulosic sources.

Many of the bill's provisions have bipartisan support, but Republicans want more, especially more domestic production of oil, natural gas and coal as well as expansion of nuclear power.

The Democratic bill "doesn't do anything to address expanding domestic (energy) production, and it won't do a single solitary thing to reduce gas prices," said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.

But Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., said a price gouging provision she has been advocating may reduce the prospects of future price spikes.

It would give the Federal Trade Commission broader authority to investigate possible wholesale oil market manipulation — from the legitimacy of refinery shutdowns to whether gasoline is being exported to limit domestic supplies.

For the first time, it would be a federal crime to charge "unconscionably excessive" prices for petroleum products at the wholesale or retail level. Critics of the provisions, including the Bush administration, said the measure amounts to price regulation and could lead to supply shortages.

The oil industry has repeatedly argued that many investigations have failed to uncover price fixing by oil companies. "If there is no manipulation, there should be no fear of a strong federal statute," Cantwell countered at a news conference Tuesday.

Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, called the price gouging provision "a feel-good vote" that he probably would support. "But does it bring gas prices down? Probably not," he said.

Craig said he supports much of the bill, including the increase in auto fuel economy requirements, but he called it "a domestic green energy bill" that doesn't address the need for more domestic energy production.

He said Republicans — along with support from some Democrats — will renew the drive to open new areas of coastal waters, especially the Eastern Gulf of Mexico and central Atlantic region, to oil and gas development. One proposal to give states an ability to get out from under a federal ban on offshore oil and gas development has bipartisan support, but is strongly opposed by a number of senators from coastal states.

Another highly contentious issue senators will debate is whether to require utilities to use more renewable fuels to produce electricity.

Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., intends to propose a national requirement that 15 percent of a utility's power come from renewables such as wind and solar power. Such a requirement is strongly opposed by utilities in the Southeast, where there are few resources of wind power and heavy reliance on coal.

Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., plans to offer an alternative that would broaden the requirement and let utilities meet the standard by expanding their use of nuclear power, hydropower or clean coal technology.

Meanwhile, senators from coal producing states argue that coal, the country's most abundant fuel, is being given short shift. They plan to press for new requirements and subsidies for the production of liquefied coal as a diesel-like motor fuel, a measure environmentalists strongly oppose, arguing such use of coal would increase the release of carbon dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas linked to global warming.

Although I generally do not agree with Senator Levin (D-MI) on most topics, he for the most part has this one correct in terms of what the companies can do, and furthermore, how it would help the consumer. Being realistic is indeed the most important part of the bill, and it is very unfortunate that some senators do not have the same qualities as Levin.

I was upset enough to actually write a letter to California Senator Dianne Feinstein, based on her uneducated comments about European and Chinese vehicles yesterday. Basically I attempted to inform her that she was only partially right in her stance, and that she needed to do more research before coming up with these radical stances on the issue. Furthermore, I pointed towards Senator Levin's stance, and hoped that she as a "reasonable Democrat" would take my words into consideration.

...We'll see what happens...
 
That's right, we do have a senator named Levin, don't we? Shame that he probably doesn't know he shares his name with a Corolla.

Extreme boosts in the CAFE standards would elicit an overall drop in quality of automobiles, as Manufacturers look for ways to increase economy for minimum money. We could see a return to super-high final drives, and perhaps even compression drops. Then again, I could be flying off the handle, there.

Coal would be interesting, especially if a railroad decided to run on coal oil. It'd be an irony, running Diesels on Steam fuel.
 
Fox News
WASHINGTON — As motorists face near record gasoline prices, the Senate took up an energy bill Tuesday that would raise auto fuel economy standards for the first time in nearly 20 years and make oil industry price gouging a federal crime.

Nice. Only 35 years too late. 👍 If there really was a shortage, why are profits setting records year after year?


Fox News
While the additional ethanol initially would come from corn, eventually nearly two-thirds of it is expected to be produced from prairie grasses, wood chips and other cellulosic sources.

Yes! Let's find new, more interesting ways to rape the land!


Fox News
The Democratic bill "doesn't do anything to address expanding domestic (energy) production, and it won't do a single solitary thing to reduce gas prices," said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.

But Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., said a price gouging provision she has been advocating may reduce the prospects of future price spikes.

In other words: *shrug*


Fox News
He said Republicans — along with support from some Democrats — will renew the drive to open new areas of coastal waters, especially the Eastern Gulf of Mexico and central Atlantic region, to oil and gas development. One proposal to give states an ability to get out from under a federal ban on offshore oil and gas development has bipartisan support, but is strongly opposed by a number of senators from coastal states.

Wow. It's like a frat party and the ocean's a drunken freshman co-ed. You just know it's not going to end well.

Fox News
Another highly contentious issue senators will debate is whether to require utilities to use more renewable fuels to produce electricity.

:dunce:
CaptainObvious.jpg


Fox News
Meanwhile, senators from coal producing states argue that coal, the country's most abundant fuel, is being given short shift. They plan to press for new requirements and subsidies for the production of liquefied coal as a diesel-like motor fuel, a measure environmentalists strongly oppose, arguing such use of coal would increase the release of carbon dioxide, the leading greenhouse gas linked to global warming.

Ah, modern government. If they're not doing this to you, you should be doing it to them:
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I mean, I'm no saint. I'm hardly doing my part. I work in an industry that basically thrives on plastics and metals that come from questionable practices, and I don't exactly drive the most frugal vehicle (although I am quickly rectifying that). I'm just as much of a mindless consumer as the next local yokel (hence, this website...). But for christ's sake, if you've got the opportunity to make legislation that could force companies to get their act together even slightly, what in the flying hell are you waiting for? The cameras to get your good side?

I think we're actually better off having the next extinction this century rather than next. Stupidity is at an all time high and I don't anticipate it getting better 75 years from now. Better to get the big flood over with while there are still people around who know enough to get out of the way.
 
The Democrats won't do it because they don't know how. The Republicans will likely block it, that is, if the Democrats with common sense (ie men like Carl Levin) keep the bill off the floor.

...Granted, things do need to improve... But I see no reason why the companies can't do it instead of the Feds.
 
Democrats and common sense dont belong in the same sentence.:lol:

Why do the California voters insist on keeping Feinstein in her seat? I just cant stand some of her ideals. She is much too radical for our state. I am ABSOLUTLEY NOT going to vote for her next election.
 
What was really awesome was when I had an E-mail kicked back to me that basically said that "Feinstein doesn't have the time to respond to non-Californian letters."

F that beyotch...
 
...Granted, things do need to improve... But I see no reason why the companies can't do it instead of the Feds.

What's their incentive? The public doesn't seem to care, since their wallet voting has clearly gone the manufacturers' way (as in, they buy whatever's put in front of them like blind sheep). The government has their hands in both the UAW and corporate pockets. The big three have it covered on the only two ends that matter. What's left to make anyone change?
 
Wow, YSS, I dont' think I've heard that strong fo language from you.

and he's CARL Levin? like Carolla Levin?

XDDD
 

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