Firestone needs a lesson in Customer Service

[axle]

So I went for what was going to be my alignment today at Firestone that is location is 1145 Tolland Turnpike Manchester, Ct. 06040. When I talked to them on the phone they said that they would be able to it regardless over the fact I told them that it was a project car and it was already modified. They did not inquire anymore into the fact of what was modified and that they could do it. This was over the phone last thrusday when I set this appointment up. Fast foward to today, I get the car towed over to Firestone costing me around $100. The car is dropped off and I go across the street to Manchester Honda / Manchester Motorsports to get a new tie rod and castle nut. I return and walk into Firestone to check in about 30 minutes early. The moment I get in there the counter guys says " I was hoping that was not the car coming in for alignment". I knew right away that this was going the wrong direction. He comes back and gives me some BS
#1. over the laser hook-ups for thier alignment machine will not fit on my rims.
#2. The fact that the car will not get up onto the ramps
#3. The fact they have no specifications for the alignment

So right away I ask to speak to his boss or the store owner. This guy Joseph Novello the "professional" store manager did the up and down on me and took me for some punk kid with his Honda. Discrimination right from the get go. So he first starts with

BS #1. He said that the machine would not work on my rims and tires with the laser alignment hook-ups. So I bascially asked him what was different between my rims and tires that the hook-ups will not fit compared to any of the cars with 15" rims? He had no comment onto that except to show me how they would attach to the rims. At that point he pointed out that they hook on to the rim with two possible methods. One of those methods he said it hooked between the rim and tire while pointing directly at my rim and tire. Totally aware that he just made himself look bad with that one, let us move onto

BS #2. This is the most legitimate excuse this "Professional Store Manager" had. The car would have to go up a set of ramps to get on the alignment rack. He said that my car is too low to get up them. Well beleive it or not the angle that the tow truck dropped my car off on was steeper then his ramp. I told him this and he continued to reject the notion that my Honda Civic will fit on the alignment rack. After trying a logical approach with this guy, he stood there still a stubborn child not going to try to please a customer. So the next one

BS #3. This one is true, I don't have the specifications for alignment for a 95 Honda Civic, Stock or modified. They do have a computer which they could look up factory specs with and set the car to that. Regardless if there is still excess wear on the tires, at least the car will be able to go foward, backward and turn. Even after telling this guy to set it to the factory specs of if it pleased him set it to 0 degrees of toe at least. He had his mind set and would not touch my car in a fashion where he basically discriminated my car and me based on looks. He tried three arguements against doing anything, but in the end at first sight he did not want to help a customer one bit. . .

Not that I cared too much about giving him business at this point, I made the last effort of saying just get it back to factory specs. I was denied. As a customer at this point and dropping close to $100 on the tow over and needed to towed back for close to $100 again, I wanted to be compensated for being lied to over the phone. He then went on a rant stating that whoever I talked to on the phone should have inquired more about my "modifications". Well unfortunately that goes right back on him for his poor team building skills, lackluster communication and terrible people skills.

I thought then that this guy Joseph Novello representing Firestone would then go ahead and make up for the fact that they have an issue on hand. Again, this guys drops the ball. I asked what is he going to do about the money I dropped on towing the car over and the amount I would need to drop to trow it away from a Firestone that stated to me that they would do the alignment job I asked for over the phone with the knowledge that I had a "modified" car and they did not decided to ask anything about the car. Joseph did not even entertain this notion and quick put up a brick wall of sticking his fingers into his ear and proceeded to sing "La-La-La".

Knowing full well that I would not get anywhere with this Jospeh Novello "Professional Store Manager" I asked for the number to the Corporate Offices and a number to his Area Manager. I left a message for his Area Manager which I have written on this business card as "Joey D". I left Joey a message and I am hoping he will be getting back to me tomorrow before he talks to This hack Joseph Novello.

Any advice on what to do guys? Or just keep going for the nuts and bother Firestone to death over the fact that they put me out close to $200, Wasted a good amount of my time, My pregnant Girlfriend's time and the appointment I had on Thrusday for an exhaust shop's time and delayed me an extra week to get the car on the road which will turn up to cost me more with the money I pay to get to and from work. I want compensation and I will not settle until I get it. . .

- Alex

I apologize for any mispellings or grammatical mistakes, I am really steamed right now and got all this out without double checking it.

 

[Omnis]

Joseph did not even entertain this notion and quick put up a brick wall of sticking his fingers into his ear and proceeded to sing "La-La-La".

Are you serious? Wow.

I left a message for his Area Manager which I have written on this business card as "Joey D". I left Joey a message and I am hoping he will be getting back to me tomorrow before he talks to This hack Joseph Novello.

Any advice on what to do guys?

It's not our Joey D, is it? Just keep at it with them until you get what you feel is just compensation.

 

[axle]

Are you serious? Wow.



It's not our Joey D, is it? Just keep at it with them until you get what you feel is just compensation.

Basically what he did was stick his fingers in his ears and proceeded to sing . . .

As for it, yes I am going to cause general problems for this place. Until they satisfy me. Just doing it through the right channels and professionally, unlike this "Store manager"

 

[Perfect Balance]

My car was too low to get on the alignment rack at work so we just kept stacking 2x4s under the wheels and driving up on them until the car could get up. The laser attachments can really fit on any wheel, they just clamp around the edges of the rim, and they can easily set the alignment to your specifications if they can't get factory ones, providing that the car is actually able to adjust far enough in said direction.


What a bunch of idiots. Make sure you don't get out of there without at least getting all your money back that you've wasted so far.

 

[axle]

My car was too low to get on the alignment rack at work so we just kept stacking 2x4s under the wheels and driving up on them until the car could get up. The laser attachments can really fit on any wheel, they just clamp around the edges of the rim, and they can easily set the alignment to your specifications if they can't get factory ones, providing that the car is actually able to adjust far enough in said direction.


What a bunch of idiots. Make sure you don't get out of there without at least getting all your money back that you've wasted so far.

I will trust me. I know the alignment machine very well, I have used it for a few years now. Thanks for the support. : )

 

[wfooshee]

Looking at it from another point of view, there might be a liability issue they are trying to avoid. Also keep in mind that at the retail level these places are cookie-cutter. They look up the car, they set their machine, and it goes. One of the first things in the specs for alignment is ride height. In almost every case, if the "correct" ride height cannot be reached the tech is advised by the chart/computer/lookup table/manual not to attempt an alignment. There is a maximum camber and caster adjustment in a strut suspension, if such an adjustment even exists at all, and a car whose ride height is radically altered cannot be set to specs. If the suspension is replaced with pieces designed for the new ride height, the "retail" charts won't have specs.

You need to find a shop with experience in custom suspensions, and explain what you have before the car gets there.

As for towing, what's the purpose of that? If the car is not running, why does it need to be aligned? You say you went across the street for a new tie rod and castle nut. Was that installed then, and thus a new alignment was required? Is there anything they found in the suspension that they didn't trust to hold a new alignment, like ball joints, bushings, what not? Why not get the part, install it at home, and drive to the alignment shop? A few miles on bad alignment is not gonna destroy tires.

I have to say also that attitude with the shop guys gains you nothing. The car isn't what they expected, they don't have the specs to set it, and didn't want to even try to do a "custom" alignment to your specs. That's why it's up to you to make sure they understand what's coming before it gets there, and it's up to you to make sure they agree before it gets there. If you do it by phone, ask for the manager's say-so, not the counter guy. His job is to get you into the shop so they can start writing, it's definitely not to tell you to take your $$$ elsewhere.

I can see how you think you've been shafted by the shop, but you need to realize that it's outside their scope of work, and once they saw the car they realized that, too. Apparently they felt they had to make up a list of reasons, which wasn't too cool, but the fact remains that they can't handle your car, and it's your job to make sure they can before it gets there, especially if it has to towed for some reason.

 

[axle]

Looking at it from another point of view, there might be a liability issue they are trying to avoid. Also keep in mind that at the retail level these places are cookie-cutter. They look up the car, they set their machine, and it goes. One of the first things in the specs for alignment is ride height. In almost every case, if the "correct" ride height cannot be reached the tech is advised by the chart/computer/lookup table/manual not to attempt an alignment. There is a maximum camber and caster adjustment in a strut suspension, if such an adjustment even exists at all, and a car whose ride height is radically altered cannot be set to specs. If the suspension is replaced with pieces designed for the new ride height, the "retail" charts won't have specs.

Point well taken, but still to at least adjust the toe of a car regardless of ride height in my experience with these machines you are still able to do.

You need to find a shop with experience in custom suspensions, and explain what you have before the car gets there.

Already have the next shop lined up.

As for towing, what's the purpose of that? If the car is not running, why does it need to be aligned?

The car is running and it will move. I needed to change the steering rack on the car and did not get a great alignment out of it. Trust me when I say that this is far worse then a bad alignment. This then leads into the next. . .

You say you went across the street for a new tie rod and castle nut. Was that installed then, and thus a new alignment was required? Is there anything they found in the suspension that they didn't trust to hold a new alignment, like ball joints, bushings, what not? Why not get the part, install it at home, and drive to the alignment shop? A few miles on bad alignment is not gonna destroy tires.

Manchester Honda is right across the street from this place and after looking at the new steering rack with two brand new tie-rods on them, I realized that one of the new tie-rods was leaking all its internals, thus needing to replace it right away. So right within the vicinty of Honda and being at the place where the service was to be done I got another tie-rod and castle nut.

I have to say also that attitude with the shop guys gains you nothing. The car isn't what they expected, they don't have the specs to set it, and didn't want to even try to do a "custom" alignment to your specs. That's why it's up to you to make sure they understand what's coming before it gets there, and it's up to you to make sure they agree before it gets there. If you do it by phone, ask for the manager's say-so, not the counter guy. His job is to get you into the shop so they can start writing, it's definitely not to tell you to take your $$$ elsewhere.

You can go either way on this one. I believe it is the duty of a manager or owner of a business to properly train and individual of 1. What we do and what we don't do 2. How a situation is handled and who to discuss before the decision is made over service or goods based on the business i.e. "It is modified." "We can align it" versus "It is Modified." "Let me get my manager to talk to you about that before we schedule that"

I can see how you think you've been shafted by the shop, but you need to realize that it's outside their scope of work, and once they saw the car they realized that, too. Apparently they felt they had to make up a list of reasons, which wasn't too cool, but the fact remains that they can't handle your car, and it's your job to make sure they can before it gets there, especially if it has to towed for some reason.

There is another problem with the conduct of this business. Instead of coming straight out and saying we can not do this because we are insufficiently equiped or trained. Then at that point this would have smoothed over a little better. I would still be pissed about the towing, but at least I would have respect for the business. If an individual at my place of work did any of these things that this Firestone did to me, they would not have a job anymore. The bar I work at has a high commitment to the customer. A lot of these places get away with murder because they don't have the competition to drive them to do better and then you get incidents like this one and to most they would feel screwed but not do anything about it.

On my part, yeah maybe I should have thought about whether or not they would be able to do it. The fact of the matter is that I have sent quite a few cars to shops such as this and had alignments done with no problems, questions or complaints from the business owners or managers. Sorry it slipped my mind to ask if they can do something that many other shops including some Firestones have done for me in the past.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Looking at it from another point of view, there might be a liability issue they are trying to avoid. Also keep in mind that at the retail level these places are cookie-cutter. They look up the car, they set their machine, and it goes. One of the first things in the specs for alignment is ride height. In almost every case, if the "correct" ride height cannot be reached the tech is advised by the chart/computer/lookup table/manual not to attempt an alignment. There is a maximum camber and caster adjustment in a strut suspension, if such an adjustment even exists at all, and a car whose ride height is radically altered cannot be set to specs. If the suspension is replaced with pieces designed for the new ride height, the "retail" charts won't have specs.

The alignment machine I use at work says nothing about ride height. Of course, if it's drastically different, the suspension will be impossible to get completely into spec, but they still need to do the best they can, which they aren't.


Btw, they don't really "hook up the machine and it goes" you just put in what car it is so it can tell you what the factory specs are for the vehicle, and if they don't have them, they can still do an alignment without them, it still shows measurements.

You need to find a shop with experience in custom suspensions, and explain what you have before the car gets there.

As for towing, what's the purpose of that? If the car is not running, why does it need to be aligned? You say you went across the street for a new tie rod and castle nut. Was that installed then, and thus a new alignment was required? Is there anything they found in the suspension that they didn't trust to hold a new alignment, like ball joints, bushings, what not? Why not get the part, install it at home, and drive to the alignment shop? A few miles on bad alignment is not gonna destroy tires.

I'm guessing the car isn't street legal, and had to be towed.

EDIT: If it's not, then yes, that was a big waste of time and money.

I have to say also that attitude with the shop guys gains you nothing. The car isn't what they expected, they don't have the specs to set it, and didn't want to even try to do a "custom" alignment to your specs. That's why it's up to you to make sure they understand what's coming before it gets there, and it's up to you to make sure they agree before it gets there. If you do it by phone, ask for the manager's say-so, not the counter guy. His job is to get you into the shop so they can start writing, it's definitely not to tell you to take your $$$ elsewhere.

The car is a Honda, it's not some weird thing with a crazy, unheard of suspension setup. You still loosen the lock nut and spin the rod to adjust toe angle, and they denied to do even that, and not before giving other bogus excuses to try to get out of it.

I can see how you think you've been shafted by the shop, but you need to realize that it's outside their scope of work, and once they saw the car they realized that, too. Apparently they felt they had to make up a list of reasons, which wasn't too cool, but the fact remains that they can't handle your car, and it's your job to make sure they can before it gets there, especially if it has to towed for some reason.

They can handle the car, they just aren't. Too low for the alignment rack? A few peices of wood solves that problem, the laser adafters not fitting his rims is just a load of BS, all it does is clamp around the edge of the rim.

I can understand that they might not be able to get everything into spec, and that's understandable with a modified suspension, but there's nothing on the tie rods that hinders their ability to set the toe, unless for some reason they are defective or damaged. Obviously not the case though, or they would have brought that up already.

 

[axle]

The reason for the towing was because the toe on the passenger side has got to be around -5 degrees plus while the driver side is at zero. Ruining the tires would be an understandment if I drove it.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

If Firestone don't contact you within the week, get legal advice. If you leave things too long then the law won't do squat. I don't know exact times though.

 

[axle]

^ You definately have a point there. I am going to give them today only to contact me back. Then at that point I will be giving a call to the Area manager on a daily basis until this is settled properly and professionally.