First Holden. Now Honda?...

  • Thread starter 05XR8
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I was caught a bit off guard when I read that about Honda, I feel like there are plenty of other manufacturers in Australia that are much worse off than Honda.

The current CTR is a quality car but it kind of shows where Honda may have gone astray. No more is the high revving screaming sound of VTEC, even with an aftermarket exhaust the current CTR still sounds pretty bland. The older cars have plenty of character because you could rev them to the moon, so even though you're still under the speed limit, it certainly doesn't feel like it. I own a DC5 Integra which I consider to be the initial dulling of Hondas, but even it seems to have far more character than the current CTR.

I guess the problem for Honda at the moment is nothing in their range stands out against competition. The Civic is an excellent car, but it doesn't seem to hold the popularity of the Corolla or Golf, the Jazz seems to lose out to the Yaris and Polo. I guess people in the market for one of these cars are attracted to the reliability of Toyotas or the slightly more up-market appearance of the VWs. Even the range of cross-overs and SUVs simply don't offer any outstanding reason to buy them verses other cars. Current Honda's seem to be decent at most things, but top of their class in nothing, which must result in consumers either forgetting that Honda is an option, or outright preferring the competition for their headline characteristics.
 
I bought three brand new Hondas when I lived in the states. It was a completely different scope with Honda one of the high selling brands. Just as many Accords as Camrys.

Moving here to Australia, people I know and have met, see Honda as unreliable.
My then new 2001 Accord(USA) is known here(Australia) as a "Nana Accord". It wasn't flash in the states, but did everything right.

I don't know how Hondas in Australia have this bad wrap and sell in low numbers.

Weird thing is, Honda was(I don't know what today's sales figures are in the USA) way above Mazda in the states, but Mazda is way above Honda here.
 
05XR8
Moving here to Australia, people I know and have met, see Honda as unreliable.
I don't know how Hondas in Australia have this bad wrap and sell in low numbers.
Weird thing is, Honda was(I don't know what today's sales figures are in the USA) way above Mazda in the states, but Mazda is way above Honda here.
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Weird that they somehow have that reputation. My Integra has been flawless for the 3 years that I've owned it.
Apparently some of the newer models are made in Britain rather than in Japan so maybe the build quality isn't exactly up to par compared to when the Japanese were building them.
Even still I rarely hear recall complaints about them or anything along those lines so not sure where this reputation came from.

Mazda does seem to be very popular in Australia, although a lot of their newer cars seem to be really good. Their current design language is appealing and they seem to have very efficient and reliable engines so I guess that explains their popularity, but I wouldn't expect the difference with Honda to be that big, yet that's what it appears to be.
 
Mazda have that racing history in Australia. Especially with the rotary. Special RX-7 models and the like. I don't see that history with Honda.

I see more of a racing history with Mitsubishi than Honda over here. Also helps with New Zealand's love for potent rotary and Mitsubishi models.

I only know of one NSX that raced at Bathurst. Not sure about any other Hondas. That type of racing history, could have been a factor in sales. Not to mention, no hard core off-roaders in Honda Australia's line up.
 
Honda has a good reputation in the US but they haven't been as reliable as expected for the past decade or more. As well, Toyota has begun to lose some of its magic as its cars get more complicated. Their reputations are still vast, but Hyundai and Kia have moved into the spot that Honda and Toyota used to occupy.
 
Keef
Honda has a good reputation in the US but they haven't been as reliable as expected for the past decade or more. As well, Toyota has begun to lose some of its magic as its cars get more complicated. Their reputations are still vast, but Hyundai and Kia have moved into the spot that Honda and Toyota used to occupy.
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That's interesting and amazing.
 
linksracer
The current CTR is a quality car but it kind of shows where Honda may have gone astray. No more is the high revving screaming sound of VTEC, even with an aftermarket exhaust the current CTR still sounds pretty bland. The older cars have plenty of character because you could rev them to the moon, so even though you're still under the speed limit, it certainly doesn't feel like it. I own a DC5 Integra which I consider to be the initial dulling of Hondas, but even it seems to have far more character than the current CTR.
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I know what you mean - I've not driven a DC5, but the DC2 Type R is one of the best cars I've ever driven and the engine is incredible - but I actually see recent Hondas as being the start of a gradual improvement again.

The current Civic R doesn't sound that interesting, but as a car it's incredible - comfortably the best hot hatchback around, in turn easily the best front-wheel drive car around, and probably in the top five or so of the best cars currently on sale for me. In that respect it's actually a real successor to the old Integra Rs.

Elsewhere you've got the Honda E showing Honda still has the guts to make something more interesting than the norm, the new Jazz/Fit suggesting their styling is returning to a simpler, less aggressive look, and the NSX as a genuinely capable supercar. And I know the Japanese market is a very different place, but cars like the N-One and S660 show there are still enthusiasts and people who appreciate character working for Honda.

I think you're right though that Honda doesn't have many class-leaders at the moment, which when you ignore the enthusiast stuff, does hinder it in the wider market.
 
I would've thought the Jazz would be one of the more popular models, kind of surprising that they are pulling back on that. Maybe the profit margin on the smaller cars is too low to justify trying to sell them.
Also I didn't see anything about the Accord being withdrawn, but I feel like it will be inevitably, although I hope not.
 
The new Jazz waasn't going to make it here. Such a tough market. The Swift , Excel/Getz/all the other small Hyundais, Festiva, Fiesta, Yaris, I'll add Polo and Fabia... All those cars made it hard for the Honda brand. Again, must be that Honda reliability thing in Australia. Jazz is the best, in terms of packaging. I guess people prefer the lower prices of the models to the left of the Jazz and the upscale features of those to the right.

As for Accords, I see more 2nd gen Accord Euros than the normal Accord. However, I have yet to see a New normal Accord on the road.
 
From what I've seen on the road, it seems to be the Polo and Mazda 2 are the most popular small cars, especially for the learner and Provisional drivers. But the Jazz and Yaris seemed to be by no means far behind. Maybe the sample size in my area is skewing my perception of the popularity of all these models. I'm just surprised to see so many VW's considering the recent reputation of that company.
 
linksracer
From what I've seen on the road, it seems to be the Polo and Mazda 2 are the most popular small cars, especially for the learner and Provisional drivers. But the Jazz and Yaris seemed to be by no means far behind. Maybe the sample size in my area is skewing my perception of the popularity of all these models. I'm just surprised to see so many VW's considering the recent reputation of that company.
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I agree. I definitely see many Polos and all kinds of new VWs. Skodas as well. Mazdas are just a given where i am.
 
MSZ
I don't understand why Mazda is so popular down under. In North America it's the complete opposite:

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I've said that for the longest. I've owned three brand new Hondas while living in the states. My Mother had a 2nd Gen Accord. One of my family friends only buy Hondas since the 1980s.

I think some of it is the racing culture Australia has/had with the brand's classic cars. Plus, they're pretty reliable and the packaging is good, with good value and quality.

Funny, the old B-series utes, were seen as workhorses. This is coming from owners I interacted with when I worked for Mazda dealers.

Again, I don't totally understand the flip in popularity from the USA to here.
 
MSZ
I don't understand why Mazda is so popular down under. In North America it's the complete opposite:

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This has always been a bit of a mystery to me too. From my personal observation I've noticed a trend of the elderly white hat on the rear parcel shelf bowling brigade shifting from Volvo to Honda Accords and now to Mazdas. I have no explanation of why though.
 
Keef
Honda has a good reputation in the US but they haven't been as reliable as expected for the past decade or more. As well, Toyota has begun to lose some of its magic as its cars get more complicated. Their reputations are still vast, but Hyundai and Kia have moved into the spot that Honda and Toyota used to occupy.
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Hyundai and Kia moved into what spot? 4th and 5th in car and small SUV sales? My wife has worked at Toyota in Cambridge for 31 years. They used to make Corrolla's the best selling small car in NA. Now they make Rav 4 the best selling compact SUV in NA. They also have a sister plant in Woodstock Ontario that makes the RAV 4. They cannot keep up production until recent shutdown. Hyundai and Kia are cheap and have serious engine problems. Wouldn't buy one if you paid me.
 
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I highly doubt Hyundai and Kia moved into Toyota or Honda's spot. Their depreciation is still bad. I am very surprised that Honda has such a bad rep in Australia, they are highly regarded everywhere else.
 
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killerjimbag
Hyundai and Kia moved into what spot? 4th and 5th in car and small SUV sales? My wife has worked at Toyota in Cambridge for 31 years. They used to make Corrolla's the best selling small car in NA. Now they make Rav 4 the best selling compact SUV in NA. They also have a sister plant in Woodstock Ontario that makes the RAV 4. They cannot keep up production until recent shutdown. Hyundai and Kia are cheap and have serious engine problems. Wouldn't buy one if you paid me.
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What I'm referring to is the design effectiveness of their cars. Their warranty alone makes them the best buys on the market, combined with simplicity and user-friendly design which Toyota and Honda have moved away from. Toyota even gave up their classic cruise control stalk which worked for 30 years, for steering wheel buttons like everyone else. Those two brands are selling on their classic reputation alone, not because their cars are actually that great anymore.
 
The thing I like about Toyota is that they haven't gone full in on the turbo engines. They still offer their cars with naturally aspirated engines. It's that or a hybrid if you want better fuel efficiency. That should work better for those planning on keeping these cars for a while.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
The thing I like about Toyota is that they haven't gone full in on the turbo engines. They still offer their cars with naturally aspirated engines. It's that or a hybrid if you want better fuel efficiency. That should work better for those planning on keeping these cars for a while.
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Rumor is that they will be going all in on Turbocharged engines over the next few years as they update their line up. The next Tundra will apparently be a twin turbo V6 with 450 HP, you won't be able to get a NA V8 unless you get a top of the line Lexus. The next 4runner and tacoma will also be turbo charged iirc

The engine and transmission in my 4Runner are ancient by todays standards but they will last for a long time. Certainly longer than anything made by Hyundai ;)
 
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Well, we'll see how this goes.

www.whichcar.com.au

Honda downsizes dealership network with implementation of fixed pricing

A new financial year signals a departure from Honda, getting rid of negotiating and downsizing its dealers
www.whichcar.com.au www.whichcar.com.au
From today onwards, Honda's dealers Down Under will provide a fixed price for each of its vehicles, the number remaining consistent across all showrooms in the country and unable to be changed.

This means no more haggling or negotiating – the price you see on the ticket is what you'll pay, drive-away, inclusive of metallic or pearlescent paint – though Honda's range of accessories will still incur an extra cost.
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05XR8
Well, we'll see how this goes.

www.whichcar.com.au

Honda downsizes dealership network with implementation of fixed pricing

A new financial year signals a departure from Honda, getting rid of negotiating and downsizing its dealers
www.whichcar.com.au www.whichcar.com.au
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I actually like the idea.

After going through the process twice a few years back I'm really not looking forward to buying a new car again. At least this way you'll be able to see up front what the main cost will be, and guaranteed you'll still be able to haggle to some extent (servicing on top of the factory discount, roadside assist, paint protection, window tinting, etc).

Salesman: ''But ours comes with a set of genuine Tupperware containers, and I'll even throw in a set of steak knives'' 😉
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
The thing I like about Toyota is that they haven't gone full in on the turbo engines. They still offer their cars with naturally aspirated engines. It's that or a hybrid if you want better fuel efficiency. That should work better for those planning on keeping these cars for a while.
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While I agree with this sentiment I do not like the way Honda does their engine lineup here. You either have the choice of a turbo 1.5 with its relaibility issues (yeah they have issues) OR a 1.8 sohc four.

In 2021. I like the Civic sedan in base form but damn if I'm living with a 1.8 sohc low spec motor.

I consider our family to have a good relationship with Honda in the past. I remember a time when Honda was GOLD. They rules the import fwd market (not that I care!) and they had the Accord EUro, Acccord V6 and the CRV. They ones we had recorded ZERO defects while we had them. They were the definiton of a Casio watch that just ran. Saying that we also experience same with Nissan.

Honda made their own bed and I dont miss them at all. We wouldnt touch a 1.5 turbo CRV same as we wouldnt touch a 1.5 turbo Equinox.

Right now Honda want $55,000 for a 1.5 turbo Accord.

Why would you bother when a Stinger is about the same... the twin turbo V6.... AND it has the better warranty.
 
I definitely agree about people shopping the longest warranty. Hard sell, even with the fixed service cost. To me, only a Type-R and Odyssey make sense in the Honda line up.
 

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