For what reason do people say GT5 is biased TOWARD the GTR?

[xSNAKEx]

I have heard on these forums many times and felt some general vibe in GT5s online lobbies about the GTR being made "too powerful" in GT5, Kaz loving GTRs, etc.

In fact there was a thread about it this week or so on gtplanet.

My question is whats the reasoning behind this? Have all the GTR "haters" actually tried to use the Street R35 competitively and win a proper lobby?

I'll just say I'm a fan of GTRs and have used the R35 V spec 09 commonly since gt5 came out.

I was in a 500-520pp room yesterday and I was struggling to keep up, let alone beat an Evora and some standard Impreza WRX Wagon in front of me.

I really tried to push my R35 but there was no way I was beating them even though they seemed not to be even breaking a sweat. Don't get me wrong the guys in front were decent drivers but they just seemed to be having such any easy time blitzing away from me without much effort or flawless driving.

I had to put 200kg ballast on my car, miniumum aero, reduce the power to something ridiculous like 360HP just to meet the 520pp requirements. My car weighted about 1.6 tonnes.

After a few races I said to one of the guys in front
jeez I cant take this my car has like 20hp how can I keep up?" and he replied "No, you have more like 480"

After some inquiry in turns out we all assumed I had more Hp because their cars were way lighter so my car had to have more HP for the same PP. Not the case.

He said his evora had around 450Hp and much much less weight. Yet he met the 520pp requirements. And here I am in a much heavier car with around 100hp less?


In my opinion the games estimation of the GTRs PP is TOO HIGH. Almost all races these days are PP based, and I find myself trying to supposedly use what is meant to be the most powerfully unfair car Kazs loving R35, only to try win an uphill battle. Many times I am smoked by tons and tons of cars with the same PP and I feel like even perfect driving wont be able to make a difference.

Maybe my tuning isn't very good but I have jumped in a standard tune evora and some other cars and they just make the corners at almost any angle and any speed. With the R35 GTR you have to take the corner really precisely and at the right speed if you want to be competitive. If you dont and still try go fast around a corner you will just under steer into a wall. It still feels a bit like turning the Titanic.

IMO its not an easy car to go fast in.

 

[ChicoMaloXD]

Some people are dumb. That's the reason.
GT5 is all fine. NISSAN is cool. GT-R's are awesome.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Some people are dumb. That's the reason.
GT5 is all fine. NISSAN is cool. GT-R's are awesome.

No I don't care and have never cared what other people think. I like or don't like a car only because of my opinion.

What I am trying to say now is is it possible the GTR too WEAK to compete in the PP league I mentioned? IT seems the game overestimates the Vspec 09 GTR in its PP.



Can anyone recreate that PP race and try to win in a R35. It was in tsukuba.

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

Some people are dumb. That's the reason.
GT5 is all fine. NISSAN is cool. GT-R's are awesome.

Calling people dumb is a negative waste of your time.

The GTR is a great car, possibly one of the greatest ever made. From what I've read and noticed myself is the unreal amount of grip it seems to have in GT5. I'd expect the all wheel drive to grip well, but you'll notice there is little difference when running sport and racing tires. A heavier car like the GTR should experience accelerated edge grip compared to the Evora you were trying to catch. The understeer has to do with your tune.

In the interest of not double posting, I'll add to this.
It would be nearly impossible (for me) to re-create and win at Tsukuba against the Evora. The Evora is one if my favorites, and I've won many races at Tsukuba with it. It's easy to drive/tune, and wicked fast on such a small track. You really need a track with some longer straights that's not as technical.

 

[noisiaturismo]

NISSAN is a awesome brand, one of the best, but the new GT-R seems to wobble a bit.
The tuning on the GT-R (SpecV Black Mask) is awesome though, and the racing cars are cool too.

Why do they hate it? Simple. They MUST and SHOULD have super exotic cars.

If there's one thing I will not buy as DLC, is a exotic car pack.

They are not putting anytime into the GT-R Special, they are just releasing it for new players (like the persons who hate it). I just can't wait until the new NISSAN GT-R comes out

 

[obsessive rules]

the gtr is cheap but has so many expensive versions. E.g STOCK. SCHULE MS. SPEC V. BLACK MASK. JAPAN GT VERSIONS, SKYLINE GTR, to name a few...

 

[CSLACR]

I have heard on these forums many times and felt some general vibe in GT5s online lobbies about the GTR being made "too powerful" in GT5, Kaz loving GTRs, etc.

In fact there was a thread about it this week or so on gtplanet.

My question is whats the reasoning behind this? Have all the GTR "haters" actually tried to use the Street R35 competitively and win a proper lobby?

I'll just say I'm a fan of GTRs and have used the R35 V spec 09 commonly since gt5 came out.

I was in a 500-520pp room yesterday and I was struggling to keep up, let alone beat an Evora and some standard Impreza WRX Wagon in front of me.

I really tried to push my R35 but there was no way I was beating them even though they seemed not to be even breaking a sweat. Don't get me wrong the guys in front were decent drivers but they just seemed to be having such any easy time blitzing away from me without much effort or flawless driving.

I had to put 200kg ballast on my car, miniumum aero, reduce the power to something ridiculous like 360HP just to meet the 520pp requirements. My car weighted about 1.6 tonnes.

After a few races I said to one of the guys in front
jeez I cant take this my car has like 20hp how can I keep up?" and he replied "No, you have more like 480"

After some inquiry in turns out we all assumed I had more Hp because their cars were way lighter so my car had to have more HP for the same PP. Not the case.

He said his evora had around 450Hp and much much less weight. Yet he met the 520pp requirements. And here I am in a much heavier car with around 100hp less?


In my opinion the games estimation of the GTRs PP is TOO HIGH. Almost all races these days are PP based, and I find myself trying to supposedly use what is meant to be the most powerfully unfair car Kazs loving R35, only to try win an uphill battle. Many times I am smoked by tons and tons of cars with the same PP and I feel like even perfect driving wont be able to make a difference.

Maybe my tuning isn't very good but I have jumped in a standard tune evora and some other cars and they just make the corners at almost any angle and any speed. With the R35 GTR you have to take the corner really precisely and at the right speed if you want to be competitive. If you dont and still try go fast around a corner you will just under steer into a wall. It still feels a bit like turning the Titanic.

IMO its not an easy car to go fast in.

Nobody said GTR's were good at a lower PP then stock.
Most cars aren't good anywhere below a bit of power limiter below stock trim. Preferably with full weight reduction on most.
I imagine a GTR with full weight reduction is at least 550PP, which means you'd have to kill it with limiter, and getting bogged by the PP system from all the torque.
If you run those cars in the GTR's "natural" range, it'll keep up with anything. And like I said, with full weight reduction, is where "natural PP range" for all cars falls.

 

[White & Nerdy]

And another thing: I did the GTR time trial today, that thing understeers like an ocean liner.

 

[CSLACR]

Also, I wouldn't say GT5 is biased towards GTR's, but I would say biased towards Nissan, and . But then looking at 6% of the games cars being Skyline's, yes, biased towards the GTR too.
That doesn't mean they're all PP monsters.

 

[JR86]

I have heard on these forums many times and felt some general vibe in GT5s online lobbies about the GTR being made "too powerful" in GT5, Kaz loving GTRs, etc.

Kaz doesn't love the GT-R. NISSAN pays him big money to be apart of the GT series. Kaz has said before his favourite car is actually the Ford GT

 

[ChicoMaloXD]

The PP system is not that good. Cars like the Evora and the Camaro SS seem to perform better when the cars meet certain PP restriction. The Evora it's just too fast and light, and being an MR it is very fast cornering especially at Tsukuba.

I feel many players set the ballast at the back of their cars to make them perform like MR cars. Some guys are really good with GT-R's even on tracks with lots of tight turns like Cote de Azur. I saw a guy dominating on that track with a Orange GT-R.

In my opinion. Players should use the drivetrain restrictions and the game should allow ballast restrictions, too.

Do you have a wing on your GTR? If you have Downforce you will be forced to use less power or add extra weight. Probably the cars you were competing against didn't have wings and had "proper" ballast to compensate weight distribution.

There are ways to make cars perform better than others. Some times is more like a ballast battle than an actual race. It's very hard to find a fair race on public lobbies.

Sorry for the rants I've been looking for a good SH tires race since the beginning of time.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Here's why your GT-R was slow:

You fully tuned it then used the power limiter to get down to 520PP. Wrong way to do it. If you want to run a 520PP GT-R, you run it pretty much stock sans suspension/gearbox.

I'm one of those who is in both the hater camp and the "it's overpowered" camp. A GT-R done up properly in terms of parts selection for whatever level it's going to be racing at will ROFLstomp everything with even an "okay" driver.

A good while ago, I was in a 535PP race series. Guy started showing up with a GT-R and doing well, it was a very mildly tuned Spec V.

We were at Autumn Ring. He had everyone covered by quite a bit in terms of lap time. I grabbed the base GT-R from the online car selection, slapped Sports Softs on, and kept up. Right then I knew something wasn't right, it was under 530PP and beating everything else not-a-GT-R. Then, later, I grabbed an '09 Spec V, tuned it to our specs, slapped a quick suspension tune into it, and it lapped on par with my NSX without me even trying to go quickly.

At the lower PP levels, the GT-R isn't terribly fast on straights but even at full weight it corners on par with/better than the best not-an-R35s. 1600kg of car shouldn't outcorner an RXSXora (RX-7, NSX, Evora) yet it does. Not when the three are set up to use every bit of grip available and the GT-R is just LOLOHWELL tuned.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Here's why your GT-R was slow:

You fully tuned it then used the power limiter to get down to 520PP. Wrong way to do it. If you want to run a 520PP GT-R, you run it pretty much stock sans suspension/gearbox.

.

Yea but suspension, gearbox, "sans" whatever that means, doesn't affect PP, so why should the tuned parts perform worse than the stock parts?


You're telling me I would have done better if i equipped all the non PP parts back to stock? OR does the "slowness" Have to do with my de tuned engine?

My point is Why doesn't the PP system factor this if they are in fact different so you don't need 10 different of each car model for each PP?

The PP system is not that good. Cars like the Evora and the Camaro SS seem to perform better when the cars meet certain PP restriction. The Evora it's just too fast and light, and being an MR it is very fast cornering especially at Tsukuba.

I feel many players set the ballast at the back of their cars to make them perform like MR cars. Some guys are really good with GT-R's even on tracks with lots of tight turns like Cote de Azur. I saw a guy dominating on that track with a Orange GT-R.

In my opinion. Players should use the drivetrain restrictions and the game should allow ballast restrictions, too.

Do you have a wing on your GTR? If you have Downforce you will be forced to use less power or add extra weight. Probably the cars you were competing against didn't have wings and had "proper" ballast to compensate weight distribution.

There are ways to make cars perform better than others. Some times is more like a ballast battle than an actual race. It's very hard to find a fair race on public lobbies.

Sorry for the rants I've been looking for a good SH tires race since the beginning of time.

Yes I had aero parts, but they were down to their lowest setting. I think GTr only has wing downforce.

NISSAN is a awesome brand, one of the best, but the new GT-R seems to wobble a bit.
The tuning on the GT-R (SpecV Black Mask) is awesome though, and the racing cars are cool too.

What do you mean the tuning on the SpecV black mask is awesome? Isn't the Black Mask version just a GTR 07 with a black mask, but otherwise identical?

P.S To all those saying GTr has a very high amount of grip in GT5 for such a heavy car. It out corners and out Gs much much lighter cars. This is because the same is the case IN REAL LIFE.

It is also faster in a straight line than most cars with the same power to weight ratio in real life be cause it very very efficient at putting the power made at the crank to the wheels. Efficient drive train. gear changes etc.

Put that together and you get one very fast car compared to what people expect from the "spec sheet" alone.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yea but suspension, gearbox, "sans" whatever that means, doesn't affect PP, so why should the tuned parts perform worse than the stock parts?

Time for you to get out a dictionary.

I was saying that the suspension/gearbox are pretty much the only things that shouldn't be stock at 520PP. Any modification that takes you over 520PP is a bad thing.

You're telling me I would have done better if i equipped all the non PP parts back to stock? OR does the "slowness" Have to do with my de tuned engine?

I'm telling you that you overtuned the engine and used the power limiter to compensate for it, and THAT is the mistake.

My point is Why doesn't the PP system factor this if they are in fact different so you don't need 10 different of each car model for each PP?

You don't need 10 different cars to run different PP levels... But a few is good. Want to run near-stock PP? Then have a full weight car with no engine tuning stages. Then a fully weight reduced car without engine tuning, and a fully weight reduced car with engine tuning. Beyond that, just mix and match the reversible parts to hit the PP target.

P.S To all those saying GTr has a very high amount of grip in GT5 for such a heavy car. It out corners and out Gs much much lighter cars. This is because the same is the case IN REAL LIFE.

Not to the extent it is in GT5.

Aaand not to mention. You take the wheels/tires off a GT-R, find a way to stick them under a lighter car and it'll hit higher Gs than the GT-R. The tires are absolutely massive on it (255s up front, 285s out back, and they're fairly large diameter as well).

It is also faster in a straight line than most cars with the same power to weight ratio in real life be cause it very very efficient at putting the power made at the crank to the wheels. Efficient drive train. gear changes etc.

Aaactually not really. It has a very strong launch and strong aerodynamics, but it's not really all that fast in a straight line past about 80.

Put that together and you get one very fast car compared to what people expect from the "spec sheet" alone.

I wasn't aware I was arguing that it's not fast for the specs. I was arguing it was too fast for them by an extremely large margin. As in a larger margin than in the real world.

 

[brainfade]

...not another GTR flamewar.

The GTR 09 in it's respective PP league is like the Opera S2000 and Amuse S2000 N1 in 500pp, if you use it properly and take advantage of it's strengths, it will easily defeat better cars even if you're not a very good driver.

As for the bias claims, the reason there are so many different Skylines, RX7, Evos, Imprezza's, etc, because of the car culture in Japan and also the fact that these cars are geographically accessible to Polyphony's studio, if it was possible then I'm pretty sure Polyphony would even treat Pagani's variations of the Zonda in the same way too....then people would claim that Polyphony was biased to the Zonda....then people would claim that the Zonda sucks....then there would be 20 "Zonda vs everything else" threads on the forum....which again would have members feeling....

 

[ZohsixGT5]

Maybe you lost because you ruined the natural attributes of the cars performance when you detuned it to 360 HP and added a full weight ballast?

 

[kennylmao]

For what reason do people say GT5 is biased TOWARD the GTR?

To answer your title question, it's because these people cant face the facts that the GT-R is simply an awesome car!

When I did the new GT-R SpecV time trial, I was surprised at the performance of the SpecV(I have not tried driving the SpecV stock before, so...). No wonder people says that the GT-R is a grip machine. For example, as I approach a turn, the red gear indicator starts to blink indicating the correct gear I should be using but I managed to pull through it a gear higher.

 

[208SpeedGeek]

The GTR is a great car IRL and in GT5....... But it's not THAT great in GT5.

What I seem to get from the GTP community is that the quantity of GTR's in the game is the issue. Not the quality of the GTR. It's a pretty good car and modeled very accurately.

As for the OP's experience in the 500-520 PP room with a GTR... Sounds like you had a fully tuned 600PP+ GTR that you tried to squeeze into a 500PP room. When you start getting too low with the power limiter AND adding way too much weight, the car (any car) will not be effective in any race.

For a 500-520PP room, a well tuned Honda S2000, Civic or maybe even a Lotus Elise or Evora works way better then a severely detuned GTR.

I believe PD models cars very close to their real life counterparts. The GTR in GT5 is a very capable car that needs quite a bit of tuning to be properly quick in a race. It's a heavy car so it's not the most nimble car in the game. It's all wheel drive so there's some understeer issues. There's a few things that the GTR doesn't do well without a lot of tuning. PD didn't give the GTR an unfair advantage.

IRL, there's also lots of things that corporations do to forge partnerships and most importantly, make money. It's obvious that PD and Nissan have a close business relationship that extends beyond just having Nissan cars in GT5. Nissan is the main sponsor of the GT Academy. PD is the company that designed the GUI for the information screen on the dash of the real GTR. There's a long partnership there. Just having a large quantity of GTR's in the game is the tip of the iceberg of a much larger real world partnership between the two companies.

 

[SavageEvil]

GTR is awesome, I love it. It's plenty grippy and launches like a beast, but it's not overpowered by any stretch of the word. OP if you want to tango with MR cars on technical courses it's better to drive a machine that is suited to the task, something lightweight and nimble like the RX-7, or NSX to name a couple. GTR is good at it's PP and a bit under it(when stock engine and weight are a concern) thing is in tuning don't go too far below or else your car will suffer. It takes extensive amount of tuning a detuned car to make it work. Get a stock car first and tuned the suspension and drive train, anything that can be tuned without changing your PP then you can gradually go down to your desired PP and understand the strengths of the car.

If anything is a bit overpowered in GT5 it's the Ford GT '06 premium, not sure if that car is like that in real life, but that is the most stable non race tuned MR I ever drove in GT5. It handles like FR, has monstrous grip and for some reason has a never say die power as it never seems to top out, keeps on accelerating. Even the Premium Spec II car has snap oversteer, yet the '06 GT doesn't. Ford reigns supreme in GT5.

 

[lebes14]

Here's what I think, I don't fully believe that gt5 simulates the advanced computer systems on car like gtr, m3,mclaren. So to compensate they add natural grip and such. That would explain the poor handling on the mclaren. I don't know I'd this is true, but it would explain a lot.

 

[Raven_WET01]

Well... extra grip was given to a few Nissans in GT4, so people have the right to be suspicious of the models in GT5. PD has ties to Nissan; in fact I'm pretty sure they made the display in the R35. People tend to hate on the R35 because it owns just about every other street car in its PP range even without its magical computerized differentials (which is where it gets its steering advantage). What I can't figure out is how removing the intelligent electronic diffs and replacing them with fixed rates improves handling. Once you pull out all of the computer assists it should just be a really heavy AWD car.

 

[CarBastard]

And another thing: I did the GTR time trial today, that thing understeers like an ocean liner.

It might have to do with the event forcing you to run TCS at 5 and taking place on a stupid, stupid track. But yeah, a GTR in sports hards understeers quite a bit. Try to go for the Nordschleife GTR record trophy and you'll see what I mean 👍.

 

[Watt2159]

Like I say, they could have biased a crap car.

 

[Bushby_23]

It might have to do with the event forcing you to run TCS at 5 and taking place on a stupid, stupid track. But yeah, a GTR in sports hards understeers quite a bit. Try to go for the Nordschleife GTR record trophy and you'll see what I mean 👍.

That'd be why I had tcs on 0 then...

 

[Sohvakettu]

The trial doesn't force TC but SRF.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Not clear if they take it into account but could the amount of electronics on the drivetrain of the GTR bring the PP up. Compared to the Evora which is a lot more natural an challenging in drivetrain, the GTR has a reputation that anyone can drive it.

 

[SavageEvil]

Here's what I think, I don't fully believe that gt5 simulates the advanced computer systems on car like gtr, m3,mclaren. So to compensate they add natural grip and such. That would explain the poor handling on the mclaren. I don't know I'd this is true, but it would explain a lot.

Err what? Advanced computer systems? You mean traction control, ABS and stability control? Most people turn those off in order to push a car harder as these things tend to slow you down. Which McLaren has poor handling? They all handle fine to me, the F1 is a better driver and is much faster than the MP4-C12. Both are still awesome, but hey they both look lovely .

Understeering car, try not going into the corner too fast then braking when you notice you are not holding your line(any car would do that). GTR is AWD understeer is part of its character, but it's technical gizmo keep that from being prominent depending on the driving mode you select. Brake enough before the corner so you can maneuver your way through it, until you figure out the nuances of the car.

 

[Skython]

The GTR is an amazing achievement. But personally I don't know what to think of it. People dislike it because it doesn't look like a super car. But it still whips the supercar's butt. It's quick, and rather cheap, so it's good value. Even in GT5 it is. People dislike it because of that, they don't want something that looks rather standard, isn't exotic and is quick.

 

[boomee]

I have heard on these forums many times and felt some general vibe in GT5s online lobbies about the GTR being made "too powerful" in GT5, Kaz loving GTRs, etc.

In fact there was a thread about it this week or so on gtplanet.

My question is whats the reasoning behind this? Have all the GTR "haters" actually tried to use the Street R35 competitively and win a proper lobby?

I'll just say I'm a fan of GTRs and have used the R35 V spec 09 commonly since gt5 came out.

I was in a 500-520pp room yesterday and I was struggling to keep up, let alone beat an Evora and some standard Impreza WRX Wagon in front of me.

I really tried to push my R35 but there was no way I was beating them even though they seemed not to be even breaking a sweat. Don't get me wrong the guys in front were decent drivers but they just seemed to be having such any easy time blitzing away from me without much effort or flawless driving.

I had to put 200kg ballast on my car, miniumum aero, reduce the power to something ridiculous like 360HP just to meet the 520pp requirements. My car weighted about 1.6 tonnes.

After a few races I said to one of the guys in front
jeez I cant take this my car has like 20hp how can I keep up?" and he replied "No, you have more like 480"

IMO its not an easy car to go fast in.

What WRX was that????

 

[KingSakery]

If you de-tune any Car too much the Car will be not competitive.
The GTR is in Real Life almost a milestone Car. So fast of the line and the Nürb Time is insanly fast.
So I think PD implemented it very good.
The Time Trial event is almost non compareable. SRF is on
=> It makes the GTR even better.

My first Laps where 1:39´s => Gold was in the pocket but me thought hey your missing 6-7 seconds on the leader.
=> I just threw the GTR in the Turns
=> 1:37.228
(TCS=0 and DS3) I´m happy now because I know I can´t do faster (maybe a tenth or 2)

Take the Stock car and tune it with every non power/weight changing parts.
And if you then don´t fit in the pp-range you can add power / remove weight to fit in.
And then you have a competitive car.
Power-Limiter: I think if you have to detune too much (85%) the Car gets worse.