Ford GT40 seriously overspec'd in GT4 Prologue ?!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4: Prologue' started by Buggy Boy, Nov 5, 2004.

  1. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    The Ford GT Concept is going very fast in Prologue. I decided to look for the curb weight of this car to check the power-to-weight ratio.

    The weight is not given in Prologue. However the car is exists, and was modelled for GT4, so it should be known. On the official Ford GT site the information is kept secret :scared:
    Same on Supercars.net : curbweight unknown ...
    Why do some manufacturers so secret about weight data?

    Finally I found a curb weight on 2 websites :
    RSportcars.com says : 3350 lbs - 1521 kg
    thetruthaboutcars.com says slightly different, but comparable : 3400 lbs

    Now this makes me wonder about the performances of this car : I compared - here - Tsukuba-laptimes of the 2002 GT Concept with other cars in Prologue (all on road tyres, including the Ford GT(!), with use of VV's code to put the Ford in slot 1) :

    1. GT : 01:02,722
    2. 350Z Z-tune : 01:04,317
    3. HSC : 01:05,301
    4. Viper GTS : 01:06,003
    5. M5 Concept : 01:06,349
    6. SL55 AMG : 01:06,706
    7. MTRC : 01:07,098
    8. NSX Type S-Zero : 01:07,194
    9. Skyline Nur : 01:07,289
    10. Elise 190 01:07,315

    The GT40 is by far faster then the other cars. Now, the power-to-weight ratio of the GT 2002 is 3,05 kg/hp. Compare this with the 3,41 kg/hp of the Viper.
    I wonder if this can justify the more then 3 seconds of difference on Tsukuba - and yes, it is MR and the Viper FR, but still ...

    To compare some expectations for GT4 :
    - the Saleen S7 has 2,27 kg/hp! What a laptime will that allow in Tsukuba??
    - the 1966 GT40 MkI production car in GT3 had 998 kg for 306 hp, i.e. 3,26 kg/hp

    Some data about the 1966 GT40 in GT3 : imo the 1966 GT40 in GT3 is a GT40 Mk I production car. However it seems PD has modelled the slightly lower rated hp of the GT40 Mk III

    I always prefer correct specs. And I dislike the fact that PD tends to "correct" some cars upward for one or another reason, like pleasing the manufacturer, or pleasing the ego of KY who bought a new GT this year ... ;)
    Opinions are welcome!
     
  2. CAMAROBOY69

    CAMAROBOY69 Premium

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    Correct me if im wrong but doesnt the new FordGT have 500hp! One of my favorite cars in the world besides the Mclaren F1.
    I also have to say......wow you put a lot of time into this. :lol:
     
  3. daan

    daan Moderator

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    These are the fastest times set around the same track, driven by the same driver for the BBC TV programme Top Gear.

    1st - Ferrari F60 Enzo - 1:19.0

    2nd - Porsche Carerra GT - 1:19.8

    3rd - Mercedes McLaren SLR - 1.20.9

    4th - Ford GT - 1.21.9

    5th - Ferrari 360 CS - 1.22.3
    5th - Porsche GT3 RS - 1.22.3

    That's a good time that the GT set. Beating the 360CS and the 911 GT3 RS is not easy.
     
  4. Flerbizky

    Flerbizky Premium

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    550 horsies...

    Source Linkage...

    [edit]
    And it's an insanely beautiful piece of engineering !.....
    [/edit]
     
  5. DrogoGTO

    DrogoGTO

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    BUT...

    The car in GT4 Prologue is the 2002 Concept GT40, and as such it is spec'd to have 500. That is how much HP it was said to have at the time of GT Prologues conception.
     
  6. Sambert

    Sambert Premium

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    As noted above, the GT40 in prologue is a concept car (derived from Gran Turismo concept 2002). Hence the specification and performance is based on projections. Have no fear Buggy boy because PD have modelled the production Ford GT that will adhere to real world specifications.

    Edit: 2005 production model on left. 2002 concept car on right.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    Interesting laptimes Daan! :tup:

    Yes :) I know, probably too much. But when I write something like this, I prefer to do some study before posting. Doing some research often helps to clear up things, and posting it helps too because some people do have valuable input.

    I took this into account, btw I think I was the first one to report about the 2 different versions of the Ford GT in Prologue and GT4.

    In the calculation of the 3,05 kg/hp I used 499 hp, as indicated in PAL Prologue for the GT 2002 Concept. For the weight, I calculated the weight of the real 2005 car, that's true.
    However the 2002 car was modelled, so imo they should at least be as honest to give the data they used in their model.
    In Prologue, no weight is given for the Ford GT, and same in GT3C02. This reinforces my suspicion that PD modelled the car with a lower weight :sick:
    I am afraid they will do exactly the same in GT4, and publish no weight figure in the game, as Ford does on its official website. A possible reason to do so could be e.g. to make the 2004 car "seem" as fast as the 1969 Gulf car.

    The 2004 Ford GT is quite heavy, compared to the 60's GT40 :
    - Ford GT40 Mk I 1966 production car in GT3 : 998 kg - 306 hp - 3,26 kg/hp
    - Ford GT40 Mk I GULF 1968 and 1969 Le Mans winner : 1075 kg - 425 hp - 2,53 kg/hp
    - Ford GT Concept 2002 : 1521 kg (= weight of Ford GT 2005) - 499 hp - 3,05 kg/hp
    - Ford GT 2005 : 1521 kg - 550 hp - 2,77 kg/hp

    To compare :
    - Viper GTS 1998 (as in Prologue) : 1539 kg - 449 hp - 3,41 kg/hp
    - Saleen S7 2003 : 1247 kg - 550 hp - 2,27 kg/hp
    - TVR Cerbera Speed 12 2000 : 1000 kg - 800 hp - 1,25 kg/hp :)
     
  8. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    Very interesting comparison in fact! On which track these times are set?

    It almost convinces me that the Ford GT specs are quite right, as the relative laptimes compare quite well to the relative performances of the same cars in Gran Turismo! :dopey:

    I only wonder that the circomstances they drove are standardised, they write "very wet" after the Porsche 911 Carrera S ... where begins or ends "very"?

    But the SL55 AMG performs quite poorly, while in GT4P it's one of the top cars. This could refer to another questionably spec'd car thread :)
     
  9. daan

    daan Moderator

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    It's a track set around an airfield. I'm trying to remember where it is/ what it's called but I can't find it.

    As to the wet/very wet, they just decide at the time what the conditions are. They don't bother with track temperature or anything, jut dry/wet/very wet (or "mildly moist" in one of the celebrity laps!).
     
  10. squeek

    squeek

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    its top gears test track, ive got the vid for the ford gt where they tested it and i can say its not overpowered at all. the torque is AMAZING and jeremy clarkson (presenter of top gear) states that his neck muscles hurt when he put his foot down trying to keep his head straight :)

    EDIT: HERE is the link to the low res version for 56kers (ish, still 38mb so BEWARE)
     
  11. TMM

    TMM

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    The link didn't work. Can you re-post?
     
  12. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    The link has gone, the guy that runs the website the link was to; has removed ALL of the Top Gear and 5th Gear videos because people keep putting direct links to them and using massive amounts of band-width (he has stated this on a forum we both us).

    I have refered people to this site before, but never directly linked to a video.

    Its a pain because the sleepy-fish site was an excellent source of TG/5th Gear videos that we may have now lost.

    Please people do not directly link to videos without the site owner express permision, GTP had problems with people on other forums doing just the same.

    Link to a page, but not to the video.
     
  13. dunkee

    dunkee

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  14. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Very, very handy. You may want to put this one in the Videos and Pictures section, I'm sure a good few people would be interested.
     
  15. squeek

    squeek

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    hey sorry about that mate, suppose i should have asked first :(
     
  16. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    No problem, we all live and learn
     
  17. Leo_Straight6

    Leo_Straight6

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    This maybe a bit off topic but it just happens so that me and my cousin were playing GT Concept yesterday and he was using the Ford GT. My god its ridiculously fast........almost as fast as the Cadillac Cien in a straight line.......and thats got 16 cylinders and 750hp.

    The GT raped the SL55AMG around the track as well. Raped every non-racing car.

    Its VERY fast in Concept and I am wondering if its overspeced as well.

    Its got heaps of torque.......maybe its fast cos of that and MR?
     
  18. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    Not really off-topic ... :)

    It's probably because of the high torque. Real laptimes (see higher) prove that it is fast, nonetheless its relatively "poor" power-to-weight ratio.
     
  19. Hyde

    Hyde

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    i find it a little overspec.
    but its probably becuz its the concept. but the production still is VERY fast
    my best laptime was around 53s with slick.... (no street tire avaliable) even faster then the HKS TRB-02 Evo8

    i was considering ordering a real GT... but apparently, Ford Canada isnt bringing ANY in
     
  20. yeti

    yeti

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    You also need to remember that the GT Concept in Prologue is running on "Racing" tyres... this will shave seconds off of a lap time in comparison to all of these cars that you are comparing it against... (Maybe not the 350?)

    2. 350Z Z-tune : 01:04,317
    3. HSC : 01:05,301
    4. Viper GTS : 01:06,003
    5. M5 Concept : 01:06,349
    6. SL55 AMG : 01:06,706
    7. MTRC : 01:07,098
    8. NSX Type S-Zero : 01:07,194
    9. Skyline Nur : 01:07,289
    10. Elise 190 01:07,315

    Which therefore renders your times unfair and biased towards the GT...

    C.
     
  21. Sambert

    Sambert Premium

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    Yeti, Buggy Boy has covered this point.
    BTW, enjoyable thread as a always BB. :)
     
  22. yeti

    yeti

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    Oops... Sorry BB... missed that bit!!

    Ignore my post then!

    C.
     
  23. Buggy Boy

    Buggy Boy

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    No problem. Thanks for participating in the discussion both!
     
  24. RoxxorJoorSoxxo

    RoxxorJoorSoxxo

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    There's more to lap times than power to weight ratios :/